New boat and buyer advice

[Tranona]

I think the only Trolls are you, Tranona and Baggy. At post 41 Tranona states
I don't know why you continue referring to the RCD. That is not legislation, just the standard,
So, at this point Tranona doesn't even know the

That is because it is true. RCD means Recreational Craft Directive which is an EU Directive, but is not law. Its use becomes law when individual states adopt it. Now we are not in the EU we do not need to follow EU Directives, but in this case government has chosen to accept the current EU RCD standard as equivalent to ours.

BTW did you stop finishing your sentence because you realised you were writing nonsense?

OK I now see you have completed writing nonsense. As it happens Graham is incorrect - or only partially correct. The 2017 RCD is accepted but the the earlier versions do not seem to be - that is the only issue worth discussing as it is currently unclear.

Why are you still talking about what applies in the EU. Don't you know the UK left the EU nearly 5 years ago?

 

[nevis768]

I see you have now disabled the quote function, is that because it is too embarrassing for you,

Anyway, here's the latest quote from you :-
Tranona says post 81 above,
"That is because it is true. RCD means Recreational Craft Directive which is an EU Directive, but is not law. Its use becomes law when individual states adopt it. Now we are not in the EU we do not need to follow EU Directives, but in this case government has chosen to accept the current EU RCD standard as equivalent to ours."

Actually Tranona, there is an ACT called the RCD 2017, here's a copy of the first page below, you can see that it is a Statutory Instrument so it is UK legislation, or are you disputing this is an Act of the UK parliament?
If you google that the whole Act will pop up for you, and you have a read of the Act and stop posting nonsense, here a link too https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/737/pdfs/uksi_20170737_en.pdf


STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS
2017 No. 737 CONSUMER PROTECTION
The Recreational Craft Regulations 2017

Made - - - - Laid before Parliament
11th July 2017
12th July 2017 3rd August 2017

 

[Baggywrinkle]

@nevis768

Let's first deal with your belief that users can "disable the quote function".

I can't disable the quote function, so here's a helpful guide on how to use it. These things are usually user error.
If you press "reply" on any post, then the entire text gets quoted in your reply box.


Quote is used to allow a response quoting multiple messages from multiple posts. If you press "quote" then the text from that message gets put in a buffer which allows you to collect quotes from more than one post - it does not immediately insert them in your reply however - this is what catches most people out.
Also when you press "quote" a message appears to inform you that you have added the message to multi-quote and the "+" on the "quote" button changes to a "-" and highlights the "quote" button.

Pressing "quote" again removes it from the multi quote clipboard.
Once you have collected all the messages you want to quote, you press "Insert Quotes" in your reply box and it will insert all the text you have marked for quoting.

Hope this helps and saves you some time and keeps this quite amusing thread going.
As for the rest of your post .... same old stuff I'm afraid so the same reply.

Let's clear up importing, as that seems to be a problem for you, as you seem to believe that private individuals cannot import anything.

"Bringing a second hand boat into the U.K. when it has never been there before is an import, where is the exact legislation that states this?"

I wonder if you understand the concept of "declaration by conduct"? It is used in airports, ferry terminals and any other ports of entry to simplify the import of goods from foreign countries for private use. Green and Red lanes at customs mean anything to you? .... by using these lanes you are making a customs declaration for all the goods you have with you because you are importing them to the U.K.

Perhaps look at the government guidance website on importing ... it's a step by step guide to bringing stuff, (goods, products, anything really) into the U.K.



Bringing stuff in in your suitcase for personal use is importing - and if you are under your personal limit and have nothing that needs to be declared or checked for another reason then you import it without doing anything other than walking through the "nothing to declare" green lane. By doing this, you are making a customs declaration. This is "declaration by conduct."

Everything you bring in from abroad using a port of entry, be that an airport or ferry terminal, has green and red customs lanes where you make your customs declaration for anything you may be importing.

Now please don't tell me that you think that when entering a port, the red and green channel markers indicate "Goods to declare" and "Nothing to declare" lanes ...

Pleasure craft are subject to different legislation as they can travel through unregulated entry points. This is why you are required by law to register your arrival in a pleasure craft, and make a customs declaration.
It is legislated by The Customs (Import Duty) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018 and if you are returning to the UK in your own boat that was previously in-service in the UK with VAT paid it allows you to come in without any complex declarations. If there is VAT due, duty to pay, or certification to be checked, then you can't avail yourself of this process.
It can be found in UK Statutory Instruments 2018 No. 1248 PART 4 CHAPTER 2 SECTION 4 Regulation 26B ... which says ...

26B.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), an individual who is a qualifying traveller may make a Customs declaration for the free-circulation procedure by the conduct described in paragraph (3) in respect of goods which are a pleasure craft, if at the time of import full relief from import duty is available in respect of the goods to that individual or the person on whose behalf the declaration is made [F2by virtue of the case described in section 37 of the UK Reliefs document (returned goods relief)].

(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply where the goods are liable on import to value added tax.

(3) The conduct referred to in paragraph (1) is where the individual enters the limits of a port in the United Kingdom in the pleasure craft.]

The Customs (Import Duty) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018 - This link is the government legislation web site, it is up-to-date, I suggest you explore the subject of bringing pleasure craft to the UK using this site and reading the governments associated guidance on how the law is to be interpreted.

The act of bringing the boat to the UK is an import - just like bringing anything into the UK from abroad. The paragraph (1) above states you are importing your boat by the conduct in (3) .... the clue is the statement "if at the time of import" in (1) .... it's an import for heavens sake.

If it has not been in the UK before, then this import becomes "first put into service in the UK" - and it applies to the specific boat, the product you are bringing in, not the model series which the manufacturer built. Every production boat gets a CE (and in future perhaps a UKCA) marking, a Declaration of Conformity (RCD) - RCR for the UK in future - and is assigned a hull identification number which binds this particular boat to the design that was certified. The particular certification in force at the time will determine which has to be met. The law, that it has to be certified, remains the same - just as it ever was.

 

[nevis768]

I'm not even going to read all of that crap. Why have you posted it in big letters and posted huge amounts of nonsense, are you trying to make it difficult to answer. Won't work I'm afraid.

But I would like an answer to my last post, it has been ignored, so here it is, and it deals with the relevant part of the RCD directive
I see you have now undisabled the quote function, is that because it is too embarrassing for you,

Anyway, here's the latest quote from you :-
Tranona says post 81 above,
"That is because it is true. RCD means Recreational Craft Directive which is an EU Directive, but is not law. Its use becomes law when individual states adopt it. Now we are not in the EU we do not need to follow EU Directives, but in this case government has chosen to accept the current EU RCD standard as equivalent to ours."

Actually Tranona, there is an ACT called the RCD 2017, here's a copy of the first page below, you can see that it is a Statutory Instrument so it is UK legislation, or are you disputing this is an Act of the UK parliament?
If you google that the whole Act will pop up for you, and you have a read of the Act and stop posting nonsense, here a link too https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/737/pdfs/uksi_20170737_en.pdf


STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS
2017 No. 737 CONSUMER PROTECTION
The Recreational Craft Regulations 2017

Made - - - - Laid before Parliament
11th July 2017
12th July 2017 3rd August 2017

 

[Baggywrinkle]

If you google that the whole Act will pop up for you, and you have a read of the Act and stop posting nonsense, here a link too https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/737/pdfs/uksi_20170737_en.pdf


STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS
2017 No. 737 CONSUMER PROTECTION
The Recreational Craft Regulations 2017

Made - - - - Laid before Parliament
11th July 2017
12th July 2017 3rd August 2017

Another face palm I'm afraid .... that document is a PDF copy of the original version from 2017, it was amended in 2020. If you used the government legislation website, where the law is electronic, online, and up-to-date, then you would know this. I assume therefore that you also don't understand the importance and significance of version control. Your PDF clearly states it's version, by way of the date, and it is the "Original (As made)" ... the current version is the "Latest available (Revised)",

This link is where you should be sourcing your information .... The Recreational Craft Regulations 2017 ... it will lead you here:





The red circled part allows you to switch between the 2017 version and the 2020 version.
The green circled part allows you to see the differences between the legislation for NI and the legislation for England, Wales and Scotland. (NI is different as it aligns with EU rules to allow an open border between NI and Ireland).
The blue circled part allows you to switch between your original 2017 PDF version and the 2020 amended version and view it in it's entirety, also downloading it if necessary.

Never get your facts wrong again

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I'm not even going to read all of that crap. Why have you posted it in big letters and posted huge amounts of nonsense, are you trying to make it difficult to answer. Won't work I'm afraid.

I'm not surprised you didn't read it, but funnily enough, I currently have both the time and the crayons to try and explain it to you.

But I would like an answer to my last post, it has been ignored, so here it is, and it deals with the relevant part of the RCD directive
I see you have now undisabled the quote function, is that because it is too embarrassing for you,

Not at all embarrassing, I think you will find that @Tranona , @Graham376 and everyone else has also "simultaneously re-enadled the quote feature" ... glad the tutorial helped.

Anyway, here's the latest quote from you :-
Tranona says post 81 above,
"That is because it is true. RCD means Recreational Craft Directive which is an EU Directive, but is not law. Its use becomes law when individual states adopt it. Now we are not in the EU we do not need to follow EU Directives, but in this case government has chosen to accept the current EU RCD standard as equivalent to ours."

Actually Tranona, there is an ACT called the RCD 2017, here's a copy of the first page below, you can see that it is a Statutory Instrument so it is UK legislation, or are you disputing this is an Act of the UK parliament?

Just to nit-pick, its the RCR 2017 .... the RCD was an EU directive, the UK obviously couldn't use RCD due to the confusion, so they named the UK version the Recreational Craft Regulations. ... and copied the RCD legislation into the new RCR legislation - which then meant a massive search and replace operation for words like "RCD" or "EU" ... hence the 2020 amendments correcting the 2017 version.

If you google that the whole Act will pop up for you, and you have a read of the Act and stop posting nonsense, here a link too https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/737/pdfs/uksi_20170737_en.pdf

Don't need to google it, the whole act is online, in it's current and previous version, on the UK legislation website - and I know the link. You can use it too if you like, might help with your arguments.

 

[nevis768]

Actually, I have used the latest guidance, I see it's being updated now to say , that the UK is going to accept CE marking anyway, so end of story. Here's a copy that you can look at,
Statutory guidance

Recreational Craft Regulations 2017: Great Britain​

Updated 7 November 2023

Contents​

1. 1. Introduction
2. 2. Legislative Background
3. 3. Scope
4. 4. Obligations of manufacturers
5. 5. Obligations of authorised representatives
6. 6. Obligations of importers
7. 7. Obligations of distributors
8. 8. Obligations of private importers
9. 9. Conformity assessment and marking – products placed on the GB market before 11pm 31 December 2024
10. 10. Conformity assessment and marking – products placed on the GB market from 11pm 31 December 2024
11. 11. Qualifying Northern Ireland Goods
12. 12. Approved Bodies
13. 13. Enforcement and penalties
14. 14. Glossary
15. 15. Footnotes

Print this page

Guidance on the regulations as they apply to craft being supplied in or into Great Britain.
This guidance has not yet been amended to reflect the announcements on 1 August 2023 and 24 January 2024 that the Government intends to introduce legislation to extend recognition of certain goods that meet EU requirements (including the CE marking), indefinitely, beyond 2024 for many products. When that legislation is passed, certain goods that meet EU requirements will be able to be placed on the GB market.
Read information on the announcements.


Keep on digging Baggy

 

[nevis768]

Actually, I have used the latest guidance, I see it's being updated now to say , that the UK is going to accept CE marking anyway, so end of story. Here's a copy that you can look at,
Statutory guidance

Recreational Craft Regulations 2017: Great Britain​

Updated 7 November 2023

Contents​

1. 1. Introduction
2. 2. Legislative Background
3. 3. Scope
4. 4. Obligations of manufacturers
5. 5. Obligations of authorised representatives
6. 6. Obligations of importers
7. 7. Obligations of distributors
8. 8. Obligations of private importers
9. 9. Conformity assessment and marking – products placed on the GB market before 11pm 31 December 2024
10. 10. Conformity assessment and marking – products placed on the GB market from 11pm 31 December 2024
11. 11. Qualifying Northern Ireland Goods
12. 12. Approved Bodies
13. 13. Enforcement and penalties
14. 14. Glossary
15. 15. Footnotes

Print this page

Guidance on the regulations as they apply to craft being supplied in or into Great Britain.
This guidance has not yet been amended to reflect the announcements on 1 August 2023 and 24 January 2024 that the Government intends to introduce legislation to extend recognition of certain goods that meet EU requirements (including the CE marking), indefinitely, beyond 2024 for many products. When that legislation is passed, certain goods that meet EU requirements will be able to be placed on the GB market.
Read information on the announcements.


Keep on digging Baggy

 

[pmagowan]

You didn’t disable quoting on yourself?

 

[nevis768]

You didn’t disable quoting on yourself?

Not easy on a phone, apologies

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Actually, I have used the latest guidance, I see it's being updated now to say , that the UK is going to accept CE marking anyway, so end of story. Here's a copy that you can look at,
Statutory guidance

Recreational Craft Regulations 2017: Great Britain​

Updated 7 November 2023

Contents​

1. 1. Introduction
2. 2. Legislative Background
3. 3. Scope
4. 4. Obligations of manufacturers
5. 5. Obligations of authorised representatives
6. 6. Obligations of importers
7. 7. Obligations of distributors
8. 8. Obligations of private importers
9. 9. Conformity assessment and marking – products placed on the GB market before 11pm 31 December 2024
10. 10. Conformity assessment and marking – products placed on the GB market from 11pm 31 December 2024
11. 11. Qualifying Northern Ireland Goods
12. 12. Approved Bodies
13. 13. Enforcement and penalties
14. 14. Glossary
15. 15. Footnotes

Print this page

Guidance on the regulations as they apply to craft being supplied in or into Great Britain.
This guidance has not yet been amended to reflect the announcements on 1 August 2023 and 24 January 2024 that the Government intends to introduce legislation to extend recognition of certain goods that meet EU requirements (including the CE marking), indefinitely, beyond 2024 for many products. When that legislation is passed, certain goods that meet EU requirements will be able to be placed on the GB market.
Read information on the announcements.


Keep on digging Baggy

That wasn't in your original pdf link was it? .... I hoped you'd find that when you started looking round the links I posted - that was your "golden bridge" and I'm glad you are now happy.

So do we agree that bringing a second hand boat into the UK as an individual for personal use is an import? and that it does need to be demonstrated to comply with a safety standard?

This will hopefully go through unchanged, and will mean that all the industry fuss about that standard being the new RCR and the UKCA mark, which would require a post construction assessment for CE marked vessels, looks like it will be resolved, and the UK will continue to accept EU RCD CE marking indefinately. This is good news for UK buyers buying boats in the EU and bringing them to the UK, although it probably is the death knell for UK RCR standards and a UKCA mark for boats. Let's hope it doesn't stipulate the current RCD standards in force at the time of import or the older boats are back to square one. The goverment has at least come to their senses with respect to boats from the EU as forcing the same procedure as non-CE boats from the rest of the world was lunacy.

 

[Tranona]

I am not sure it means that. I think (along with others) that it means the UK will not deviate from the EU in the future. What is unclear is whether that applies retrospectively and CE marks to old standards are acceptable.

If you go back to my original link and the various articles in the press. note that this requires legislation and there is no guarantee the new government will bring it, or at least give it any priority. It also does not deal with the pre 1998 exemption for EEA built boats or boats in the EEA on the qualifying date.

So, the current position is that all imports need certification and only 2017 standards are acceptable. I have not seen anything that contradicts this - but of course would love to be proved wrong

 

[nevis768]

I am not sure it means that. I think (along with others) that it means the UK will not deviate from the EU in the future. What is unclear is whether that applies retrospectively and CE marks to old standards are acceptable.

If you go back to my original link and the various articles in the press. note that this requires legislation and there is no guarantee the new government will bring it, or at least give it any priority. It also does not deal with the pre 1998 exemption for EEA built boats or boats in the EEA on the qualifying date.

So, the current position is that all imports need certification and only 2017 standards are acceptable. I have not seen anything that contradicts this - but of course would love to be proved wrong

It never applied to private buyers, that's why there are no prosecutions

 

[Tranona]

It never applied to private buyers, that's why there are no prosecutions

I thought you had finally accepted the overwhelming evidence that it does. No matter how many times you claim this you are simply wrong.

Might I suggest that you test out your "theory" by buying a boat in the EU and import it into the UK. Post your experiences here.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I thought you had finally accepted the overwhelming evidence that it does. No matter how many times you claim this you are simply wrong.

Might I suggest that you test out your "theory" by buying a boat in the EU and import it into the UK. Post your experiences here.

Already suggested that to him I even offered to find a couple of boats for him, he didn't respond.

 

[nevis768]

I thought you had finally accepted the overwhelming evidence that it does. No matter how many times you claim this you are simply wrong.

Might I suggest that you test out your "theory" by buying a boat in the EU and import it into the UK. Post your experiences here.

The overwhelming evidence that you or Baggy are unable to provide.

I'm glad you have both finally accepted that it doesnt apply until Dec 2024, but that was hard work. It's no theory, I've quoted the Act, which at post 81 you stated was not Legislation. I'm afraid anybody reading this will be unable to take anything you say seriously after stating that.

 

[nevis768]

Already suggested that to him I even offered to find a couple of boats for him, he didn't respond.

I don't think you could find your own stern as you appear to be imagining more than the fact this applies to anybody other than Manufacturers etc.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

The overwhelming evidence that you or Baggy are unable to provide.

I'm glad you have both finally accepted that it doesnt apply until Dec 2024, but that was hard work. It's no theory, I've quoted the Act, which at post 81 you stated was not Legislation. I'm afraid anybody reading this will be unable to take anything you say seriously after stating that.

.... Whatever .... This is my last post on the subject as I no longer have the time or the crayons to explain further - I'm off to the boat for two weeks - it was imported as a VAT unpaid CE marked boat, although by the previous owner, so I had to check it had all the correct paperwork - the customs form has a box on it where the CE compliance was checked and referenced. I imported the one before that myself - same circumstances. Weird that the paper trail exists for something nobody needs to to do because it only applies to manufacturers - all stamped and countersigned by the customs authority too.

Wierd also that whe you arrive in the UK on your own boat that the arrival form (C1331) has a box for "Is this the first time the boat has been in the UK" ... and next to it "Has VAT been paid" ... when answered with the wrong option it will mean you have to continue flying the "Q-Flag" and can't do anything until customs and excise have released your boat - this is always the case for a boat that has never been in the UK before, or is not VAT Paid. There isn't a prosecution for a UK resident sailing a non conforming boat into the UK because you have all the time in the world to make it conform, the boat just can't go in to general circulation until conformity is achieved/proven - which means you can't use it. Non-residents can bring non-conforming boats in under TA for 18 months.

I wish you all the best in your journey, but as the Germans politely put it, you seem to be "beratungsresistent"



Byeeee!

 

[nevis768]

Juvenile irrelevant cartoons don't cut it mate.

I think it was fairly obvious to everybody reading that you continually ignore the facts and the Act and have been unable to supply any details of any action whatsoever by Trading Standards anywhere in the country to take action against any private individuals buying a boat abroad.
To be fair you aren't the only buffoon spouting this nonsense.
The fact you were unaware that the whole CE issue has been suspended until Dec 2024 was even more amazing.