New Bavaria motor boat - Dealer and Bavaria not resolving challenges - any similar experiences or suggestions?

[ChromeDome]

Without knowing your details, I'd suggest that now is the time to:

Check your insurances for coverage of legal costs. If covered, call the insurance company for guidance on the procedure.

Prepare a proper case management (plan) that ultimately may involve lawyers.
Gather facts and evidence and organise them chronologically in a document. This is important, as solid evidence might dictate the outcome.

Familiarise yourself with the terms and conditions of the sales agreement.

Facts & Proff should include all agreements, rights, obligations and money. Plus, of course, all communication, where written is far better than oral.

Identify the right person in charge (dealer, probably backed by manufacturer?) and the escalation route.

Write a clear description, asking them to state how they will resolve issues and a deadline. Crucial as it will be the baseline for the agreement.

Follow up on the deadline, only mention legal action when you actually want to go that route, as empty threats will damage your credibility.


IMO.

 

[ChromeDome]

Clippers site:

BAVARIA WARRANTY GUIDELINES​

If, having read through the below guide, you are unsure whether something is covered by warranty then please contact us BEFORE having any work carried out to the boat.

• Your new boat is covered by a manufactures warranty against all manufacturing defects for 1 year plus a 5 year structural hull guarantee as set out in detail in your HANDOVER NOTES booklet. Please make sure you take the time to read this.
• Some components of your boat are covered for longer periods of warranty direct with their manufacturer. Such as Volvo, Yanmar, Simrad, B&G, Garmin, Raymarine, Seldon, Elvstrom. For warranty assistance with these components please contact the manufacture directly
• Warranty does not cover serviceable items or wearing parts. i.e filters, belts, impellors, seals
• Lifts or travelling costs are not covered under warranty
• All warranties are on a “return to dealer/manufacturer” basis. If this is not possible at our discretion, we will ask you to submit an estimate from a local contractor to carry out the works.
• If the defect is found to be due to operator fault, then you will be subject to parts and labour charges
• All warranty work must be instructed by Clipper Marine. We will not pay any unauthorised charges so please do not instruct any work to be carried out on the boat or engine without Clipper Marines consent
• All warranty claims must be supported by photos or videos where possible

 

[ari]

The warranty is from the manufacture to the end user so there is a relationship. The dealer may do the work but they are not the warranty provider

The end user's contract is with the dealer.

 

[DavidJ]

Any suggestions on other platforms/forums welcomed ?

Why not use this one WITH MORE INFORMATION on major issues.
You have been asked so many times now I’m starting to think you are avoiding this question for some reason.
You have the attention of some serious big hitters at the moment, don’t waste it.

 

[EugeneR]

Thanks Eugene, I had same line of thought and put up a balanced summary and actually did do that on Clippers FB page. in turn they censored and removed the message (Multiple times) and now blocked me from there facebook page. I only wish they were as focused on meeting commitments as they were on deleting comments from social media!

Any suggestions on other platforms/forums welcomed ?

As others have suggested as well, why not post details of the outstanding issues e.g. pictures, etc here? That is the best way to get support and help.

At this point, there is a risk that your posts come over as a bit of a rant without real substance or merit, which is unlikely to get the action you want. That will happen on any platform.

* Since I started this response, several better responses saying the same *

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Many thanks for the feedback - very concerning that this is a recurring pattern with Clipper. Like you they have resolved some of the low hanging fruit but I simply cant get updates from them, days are turning to weeks and weeks are turning to Months and were fast approaching a year from delivery.
……

Just to be completely clear, I had problems with my boat (not uncommon of course) but Clipper sorted them out via the various manufacturer service providers involved. So my experience is not the same as yours.

The fact that you’ve had problems isn’t a surprise. Question is, how to resolve; as said by others, we can help but you need to set out exactly what’s wrong. Especially as now you reveal that the boat is overseas. Where is it? And are you there too, or is this all at arms length?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

The warranty is from the manufacture to the end user so there is a relationship. The dealer may do the work but they are not the warranty provider

That’s true for hull / deck / interior / assembly etc. But the component parts eg engines, electronics etc are warranted by (and repaired by) the respective manufacturers’ post-sale Service organisations.

 

[Boathook]

Many thanks for the feedback - very concerning that this is a recurring pattern with Clipper. Like you they have resolved some of the low hanging fruit but I simply cant get updates from them, days are turning to weeks and weeks are turning to Months and were fast approaching a year from delivery.

I think rejection may not be viable due to time and they also shipped the boat abroad for me. If it was a car if would definitely be back on the forecourt with keys through the letter box : )

In terms of the issues there are some stuff agreed but not yet executed (Basically a list of jobs that have just got to be scheduled, but Clipper have said ok to - everything needs to be copleted together when boat lifted) and a couple they simply haven't agreed to yet - Damage to the boat. and also Warranties haven't been supplied per our agreement which naturally could leave me very exposed.

Was it shipped abroad from new. Are some of these items not done as the boat is away from Clipper. I must admit I have never purchased a new boat so warranty is an unknown subject for me.

 

[jfm]

The end user's contract is with the dealer.

That's not correct.

As ever, threads like this are pointless because (a) the relevant facts are not provided by OP and (b) most people don't understand the law eg the post above.

To OP, you have on this forum several very experienced and qualified folk who - as well as being serial new boat owners - have also been in the front row of boat rejections, litigated warranty claims, court hearings, etc. Some posters are reasonably heavy hitting lawyers/ legal eagles, and some are litigators. No-one who knows their onions will say much without more facts. So, over to you.

 

[Freebee]

having read the post from JFM above .............It would be good if everybody refrains from posting until the original poster answers the questions or bows out....

 

[ylop]

Many thanks - realising that may be the only way to close this out. I had done a search but any recommendations on sensibly priced lawyer woudl be apreciated?

I think for finding a lawyer I would have three approaches, depending on my bank balance, the confidence in my claim and how much effort I could be bothered putting in:

1. Check my house insurance, boat insurance, professional body memberships, Union memberships etc to see if I could find a policy which would let them instruct a solicitor on your behalf. That will be free or very close to free. If they don’t want to take the case on after initial consultation or after correspondence with clipper - then you know you have a problem, basically they aren’t confident in winning or settling and therefore having their fees covered.

2. Have a quick look for firms that have done similar work before - buying a yacht is quite a specialist transaction and so your typical high st solicitor might not be ideal if it comes down to technicalities. If cases have made it to court usually the barrister and instructing solicitor are named. The only case I recall of a defective yacht recently was Discovery Yachts - it got really messy but if you google you should find them.

3. Google for firms that specialise in shipping / marine transactions. Might seem like overkill (and will be the most expensive option) but I used to work for a company that got stroppy solicitors letters on a fairly regular basis - the reputation of the complaining solicitors impacted how it was responded to. The letter might cost you 3x as much but get you resolution much quicker.

 

[jrudge]

The end user's contract is with the dealer.

I don't remember the exact details but I did look into this extensively. I was about to serve Fairline with a statutory demand over a warranty claim - they were owned by the guy who also bought fletcher at the time. The warrenty is provided to you by the manufacturer not the dealer.

Edit. Also seen jfm reply

 

[jrudge]

That’s true for hull / deck / interior / assembly etc. But the component parts eg engines, electronics etc are warranted by (and repaired by) the respective manufacturers’ post-sale Service organisations.

I don't believe so. Do Aston Martin send you to Mercedes for an engine warrenty claim ? No they deal with it. How the manufacturer deals with his supply chain is not really my problem.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I don't believe so. Do Aston Martin send you to Mercedes for an engine warrenty claim ? No they deal with it. How the manufacturer deals with his supply chain is not really my problem.

Maybe true for a car, but for boats, or my boat anyway, not so. The engine faults I had were dealt with by Golden Arrow and Volvo, not Clipper or Bavaria. Clipper organised it though, so in that regard it was the dealer managing the claim.

 

[Tranona]

Maybe true for a car, but for boats, or my boat anyway, not so. The engine faults I had were dealt with by Golden Arrow and Volvo, not Clipper or Bavaria. Clipper organised it though, so in that regard it was the dealer managing the claim.

I think maybe there is confusion here between your rights under the CRA and those under manufacturers' warranties. It is the latter that is normally what covers work on things like engines, but your "claim" is with the dealer who arranges for Volvo to carry out the work under their manufacturer's warranty which may cover more (or less) than your rights under CRA. You do not go direct to Volvo.

The problem as I understand it from the rather garbled account from the OP is that Clipper is not doing its job properly in getting the agreed work done. This may well be because the boat is not somewhere that makes it easy to control the work. It may also be that some of the work is on Bavaria made parts of the boat or installation of equipment where the "fault" is theirs rather than the component supplier. Just speculating a bit, but reflecting the sorts of issues I have seen either first hand or for example on forums, of warranty type work on today's complex boats.

Fortunately with both my Bavarias they were relatively trouble free, particularly the second bought from Clipper where the minor faults were resolved quickly and efficiently.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Yes that’s right. I wasn’t suggesting that the consumer would be required to go direct to the third party, although in the case of my faulty Garmin plotter on the Vision that is what I did. In the case of this particular thread we‘re unfortunate to be very short of facts

 

[Tranona]

It was more of a general observation rather than specific to your post. Same with my Garmin issues. Clipper made the first contact and then I dealt direct with them and their dealer.

 

[jrudge]

The boat industry is a mess as it is small.

A car a boat makes no odds. The difference is that most car manufacturers are large businesses and tell their suppliers that they are deducting £x for warranties this month or however they do it. The boat manufactures mostly have no money and are small players. Even the likes of Sunseeker etc are not shifting massive engine volumes compared to a truck manufacturer so no one really has any clout. So the default position is call Volvo , call garmin. Just imagine if bmw said oh it's an injection problem. Call Bosche.

 

[Tranona]

The boat industry is a mess as it is small.

A car a boat makes no odds. The difference is that most car manufacturers are large businesses and tell their suppliers that they are deducting £x for warranties this month or however they do it. The boat manufactures mostly have no money and are small players. Even the likes of Sunseeker etc are not shifting massive engine volumes compared to a truck manufacturer so no one really has any clout. So the default position is call Volvo , call garmin. Just imagine if bmw said oh it's an injection problem. Call Bosche.

You are right. The "system" with respect to warranty work reflects the structure of the industry and in general works well. The outliers though can be a nightmare for all parties involved.

 

[ashtead]

It would seem the actual causes of loss here remain remarkably unclear. I wonder if the OP has considered contacting the BMF to see if any informal dispute resolution process? If this is a warranty claim then I doubt any legal expenses insurer on an ATE basis would want to touch it but maybe contacting a claimant firm will clarify if a product covering. If not it rather depends on value - if aggrieved try issuing some county court proceedings yourself and speculate the issue fee?