Needles / Overly Cautious?

[CondorAA5A]

Couple of weekends ago I was coming back from Alderney, headed to Cowes. I had timed my departure to give myself the option of either coming via the Needles with a fair tide (or possibly North Channel) or via the eastern route into the Solent if the weather was not great.

We had a Southerly F6 (and gusting higher), so thinking lee shore etc. etc. I opted for the eastern approach as I had still had favourable tide around SE of the island and it was then just going slack and turning to get me into Solent and onto Cowes.

So all good, just a longer route and longer in the rain but I was wondering was I overly cautious? Interested in people’s views.

 

[alant]

Couple of weekends ago I was coming back from Alderney, headed to Cowes. I had timed my departure to give myself the option of either coming via the Needles with a fair tide (or possibly North Channel) or via the eastern route into the Solent if the weather was not great.

We had a Southerly F6 (and gusting higher), so thinking lee shore etc. etc. I opted for the eastern approach as I had still had favourable tide around SE of the island and it was then just going slack and turning to get me into Solent and onto Cowes.

So all good, just a longer route and longer in the rain but I was wondering was I overly cautious? Interested in people’s views.

No, read Reeds Almanac regarding the Needles Channel area, not a nice place when wind is F6, you might have been better considering the north channel (even though you might consider this more of a "lee shore"). If tide is flooding it should keep you well out of contact with the beach.

 

[rotrax]

As Alant states, the Needles Channel is no place to be on a spring ebb with southerly F6 winds.

Circumstances dictated that I was helming a 27 footer during those conditions 12 years ago when a huge sea dropped into the cockpit from alongside. It was big enough to fall on the lower part of the reefed mainsail where the weight and associated forces pulled the mainsheet fitting from the boom, splitting it along its track for almost a metre!

The Skipper was thrown across the cockpit and broke a couple of ribs on a coachroof winch. I was hanging onto the tiller, water a metre above my head when my lifejacket went off. We were both clipped on and the washboards were in and the hatch closed.

All because of the pressure to be back at work the following day by the Skipper.

You made the right move.

 

[prv]

As Alant states, the Needles Channel is no place to be on a spring ebb with southerly F6 winds.

I think all would agree on that - but the OP said he'd have had fair tide, which I take to mean the flood up the Needles channel, not the ebb.

F6 gusting 7 I think I'd have probably made the same decision as him, but I'd have also wondered the same thing. It always seems to be bouncy over the Bridge, but I'm not sure what it would have been like in that particular combination of wind and tide.

Pete

 

[Polly's Kettle]

I'm in line with Pete. I've had a boat busting experience at the end of the Needles channel with F5 Vs the ebb, so I would be pre-disposed to avoid it in a F6 in any event, but only to the extent that I'd have gone for the North Channel. However wind with tide, I think you actually would have been alright going straight up by the Needles - either way would have saved you a couple of hours.

I get the worry about a lee shore if you're sailing a square rigger, but assuming that's not the case (??) I'm not convinced that would come into my thinking.

 

[richardsn9]

Another vote to treat the Needles Channel with great respect. After coming cross channel, it is very tempting to take the shortest route home. Even on the flood the seas over the Bridge can be very short and confused if there is a strong ground swell. Once, I was lucky I only smashed most of the crockery, which did not take well to being tossed like a pancake... Next time I would definitely take the North Channel.

 

[alant]

I think all would agree on that - but the OP said he'd have had fair tide, which I take to mean the flood up the Needles channel, not the ebb.

F6 gusting 7 I think I'd have probably made the same decision as him, but I'd have also wondered the same thing. It always seems to be bouncy over the Bridge, but I'm not sure what it would have been like in that particular combination of wind and tide.

Pete

Some years ago, the Yarmouth lifeboat skipper, stated at an enquiry/inquest over the deaths of policemen lost returning through the Needles Channel, that the flood was as dangerous as the ebb in strong winds.

 

[Robert Wilson]

As a stranger to the area, but once having come through the Needles Channel to Yarmouth, may I ask where the "North Channel" is?

 

[alant]

As a stranger to the area, but once having come through the Needles Channel to Yarmouth, may I ask where the "North Channel" is?

Coming from the west (poole), pass Hengistbury Head to port & head toward Hurst Castle.
En route you will see a green buoy (north head) with the channel inside that. Deep water even close to the shinge spit right through past Hurst. I usually aim for Fort Albert until a clear run through.

 

[[3889]]

 

[mainsail1]

I don't think you can ever be overly cautious in a Force 6 gusting 7.
You made a perfectly good decision but the alternative would have been the North Channel.

 

[flaming]

I think it depends on the size of the boat and the experience of the crew. I have come in through the needles in conditions similar, and indeed a bit stronger, to that described a few times, and whilst the waves were definitely a bit more confused than outside of the needles channel at the same time I have never felt that they were dangerous in a F6.

But that's mostly in fully crewed cruiser racers of at least 35 feet, or on delivery with a smaller but experienced crew. Would I opt for the needles channel in a F6 in a boat less than 30 feet? Probably not. Not because I'd expect it to be Dangerous, but because it might be uncomfortable. I'd almost certainly aim for the North channel rather than going around the East of the Island though.

 

[dom]

The Needles can certainly get wild and Yarmouth Lifeboat often dips through the North Channel in a big SW blow. Also agree that both the ebb and flood can be equally bad in a SW storm.

That said, I would say one is seriously over-egging it to equate a F6 gusting F7 with any of this, especially on the flood. To have the option of either way around the IoW at springs I'm guessing the OP had to have been west of the Needles at decision time, so heading for Bembridge would have routed him through the St Catherines overfalls, which can also be bouncy..

Agree that standing waves can be a problem around the Bridge Buoy and there is certainly the chance that the cockpit drains will be asked to do their job, but a 30 mile detour to avoid either that or the tamer North Channel. I would say that's overreacting.

 

[jac]

Another vote for leaving the needles channel.

If daylight I would go through North Channel but if coming from the CI at night I would probably go East. Much better lit that way and the Green on North Channel is pretty weak.

 

[Seajet]

Agree the OP made exactly the right decision.

The biggest nastiest waves I've ever seen were in the Needles Channel - a big breaking one with another smaller but still significant breaking one on top going at 45 degrees to the lower one, like a mini version of the nightmare pics in ' Heavy Weather Sailing '.

That was in about F4-5, but after 3 days of SW F9.

 

[benjenbav]

Another vote for leaving the needles channel.

If daylight I would go through North Channel but if coming from the CI at night I would probably go East. Much better lit that way and the Green on North Channel is pretty weak.

Haven't been that way for a while but my recollection is that there always seem to be lots of pots around North Head Buoy, which is another factor.

 

[Seven Spades]

I would have gone the North Channel in that small boat. Its a long way around to go East.

 

[alant]

The Needles can certainly get wild and Yarmouth Lifeboat often dips through the North Channel in a big SW blow. Also agree that both the ebb and flood can be equally bad in a SW storm.

That said, I would say one is seriously over-egging it to equate a F6 gusting F7 with any of this, especially on the flood. To have the option of either way around the IoW at springs I'm guessing the OP had to have been west of the Needles at decision time, so heading for Bembridge would have routed him through the St Catherines overfalls, which can also be bouncy..

Agree that standing waves can be a problem around the Bridge Buoy and there is certainly the chance that the cockpit drains will be asked to do their job, but a 30 mile detour to avoid either that or the tamer North Channel. I would say that's overreacting.

If he had to ask the question, he isn't overeacting.

 

[lpdsn]

The Needles can certainly get wild and Yarmouth Lifeboat often dips through the North Channel in a big SW blow. Also agree that both the ebb and flood can be equally bad in a SW storm.

That said, I would say one is seriously over-egging it to equate a F6 gusting F7 with any of this, especially on the flood. To have the option of either way around the IoW at springs I'm guessing the OP had to have been west of the Needles at decision time, so heading for Bembridge would have routed him through the St Catherines overfalls, which can also be bouncy..

Agree that standing waves can be a problem around the Bridge Buoy and there is certainly the chance that the cockpit drains will be asked to do their job, but a 30 mile detour to avoid either that or the tamer North Channel. I would say that's overreacting.

I've gone out of the Needles Channel in a F7 Southerly on a spring ebb when racing. I actually saw a boat come off a wave with only its keel and rudder still in the water. I didn't see what happened next as we went through the next wave, or so it seemed.

If you've done a lot of offshore racing, as I guess you have, it is very easy to over-estimate the ability of a cruising skipper in a AWB to cope with conditions that an experienced offshore race crew could take in their stride.

 

[jac]

Haven't been that way for a while but my recollection is that there always seem to be lots of pots around North Head Buoy, which is another factor.

Yes i think you're right.