Nav Lights

[GuyMcB]

Have any of you guys noticed a recent, massive deterioration in nav light usage, particularly amongst sailing yachts.

Having had several 'incidents' on my way back from Scilly to Chichester recently, I decided to do my own highly unscientific traffic survey last Saturday whilst having an evening meal at HISC, overlooking the entrance to Chichester Harbour.

Of the eight boats that came through during the half hour or so, only two showed correct lights. There was no wind, foul tide and everyone was therefore motoring/motorsailing.

Full results (all yachts motoring):

Correct lights - 2
Masthead Tricolour alone - 2
Masthead Tricolour plus steaming - 1
Masthead Tricolour plus deck nav lights - 2
Deck nav lights alone (no Steaming) - 1

A bit anal of me I know but its difficult enough sometimes to figure out what action to take to avoid collision at night, without all this extra confusion.

I spoke to one guy recently who admitted to always showing tricolour plus deck lights at night. "So that people stand a better chance of seeing me". "I know what it says in the coll regs, but I feel it is more important that I'm seen".

Any thoughts??



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[AlexL]

Ok, you've got me, and I'm aware that I'm inviting a tirade but:

when motoring, or motorsailing, you need nav lights + a steaming light yes?

so I can see why using the steaming light as well as the deck nav lights is correct, but what is wrong with using the tricolor, and the steaming light?

And Yes if I thought that I would be seen better, say in a traffic lane at night, having the tricolor AND the deck nav lights on then I would use them. In extremis I think it is better to be alive and wrong than dead and correct /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[Sans Bateau]

As a resident of Chichester harbour, I know these yachts with incorrect lighting, they the ones who regularly motorsail with main and genoa up and no inverted cone! Its not untill they have passed and you have given way to their ' Starboard tack' do you realise. Bloody annoying!!!!!!

Just as ignorant and thoughtless as a Mobo passing to close/to fast.



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[bedouin]

The steaming light has to be mounted a certain distance above the port/starboard lights. Yachts (almost) invariably have the tricolour well above the steaming light so you should not use the two together

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[Aja]

In a shipping lane - if I was that worried - a good old fashioned torch directed in the right direction will be less confusing to others and a damn sight more effective than a confusing mixture of different lights..

Donald

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[MarkV]

Would I be right in saying that it would be OK to use a bi-colour, along with an alround white (anchor) at the top of the mast when motoring, and a tri-colour when just sailing?

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[GuyMcB]

Thanks for taking the time to respond, my input to your points is....

The 'steaming light' should be above the 'side lights' (not BELOW the tricolour, which may only be used when sailing) .......

From the coll regs......

Annex 1
POSITIONING AND TECHNICAL DETAILS OF
LIGHTS AND SHAPES

2. Vertical positioning and spacing of lights

d) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 metres in length may carry the uppermost light at a height of less than 2.5 metres above the gunwale. When however a masthead light is carried in addition to sidelights and a sternlight or the all-round light prescribed in Rule 23(c)(i) is carried in addition to sidelights, then such masthead light or all-round light shall be carried at least 1 metre higher than the sidelights.


Incidentally, on your other point about 'extra nav lights'....

The argument about using 'the more lights the better' seems at first sight sensible, but the potential confusion caused can lead to greater problems to vessels navigating in your vicinity. If it is really a good idea to show multiple nav lights, the coll regs would allow for it, after all they have been crafted over the years to minimise collisions at sea.



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[AlexL]

Yes - Now I think about it, the only time I have been worried at night when a fishing vessel was crossing infront of me, almost head on at a fine angle, I couldn't quite work out what was happening and as I was motor sailing I had the main up and shone a bloody bright torch onto the main.

BTW I have found this on a Haven ports YC site

Navigation Lights - a Warning !

Economical and convenient though they are, we all know (don't we?) that tricolour masthead lanterns for sailing yachts have their limitations (and we don't just mean the occasional ignoramus who keeps his on while motoring). As we've all been taught, at close quarters a masthead lantern is high above another small boat helmsman's line of sight, and conventional sidelights or pulpit lanterns are much safer and more seamanlike in congested waters.

HASA (the Harwich Area Sailing Association), which represents all the clubs in the area, has now told us of another hazard, brought up in recent discussions with the Harwich Haven Authority. Their pilots are increasingly concerned that, from a high bridge position, a yacht's masthead merges with shore lights, whereas side and stern lights down against the dark water surface are much more visible, and easier to judge for distance and speed.

So the message is "be seen - be safe". You've got to turn the tri off anyway as soon as you start the engine, so it should be no great imposition to do it a little earlier and navigate through the harbour under sidelights (or a pulpit lantern) and stern light - and don't forget the steaming light too, as soon as the engine goes on.



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[ubuysa]

Every Friday night during August there are fireworks from Bournemouth pier. Many dozens of watercraft make the short journey from Poole to anchor/loiter off the pier to watch said aerial pyrotechnics. We rather enjoy watching the mass charge back to Poole with just about every possible variant of lights showing - some even showing the right ones /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Tony C.

<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[DeckBoobie]

I too was sitting at that table having dinner - with what I thought were 2 charming gentlemen. I made the mistake of sitting with my back to the harbour entrance allowing my charming companions to gaze romantically over my shoulders whilst lecturing me on the merits of 'using the correct nav lights' It's was quite amazing - my charming companions metamorphised into 2 grumpy old g*** before my eyes.
Who needs romance??!!

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[AndrewB]

One rule for the sea, another for the marina

At sea, I always use just my tricolour alone which is by far the most easily visible nav light aboard. As ships and fishing boats always seem to interpret the IRCPS as if I'm under power, sticking to the letter of the law to distinguish motoring from sailing seems pretty pointless.

But I always switch to the correct lights on approaching the marina, otherwise some anal-retentive flat-cap from the office will come scurrying around to put me right.

 

[NK_man]

I can see the logic of "I'll light evey light I can to avoid a collision" but you risk confusing other vessels in doing so. The real danger though is that in failing to use nav lights correctly you will be in contravention of the Coll Regs and your insurer may refuse to pay out in the event of a collision.

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[bedouin]

Yes - but there is a limit to the size at which you can use the anchor as a combined masthead / stern light (I think it is 12m but it might be 20m).

A tricolour can only be used when sailing.

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[AlexL]

I'd be impressed if they have forensic engineers which would salvage the shattered remains of a yacht from the muddy bottom of the North Sea and be able to work out which lights were on! /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

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[Deleted member 478]

Easy really, just look at the switch panel and see what is turned on or off.

No need to check fuses because they probably popped when things got a little damp.

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[Birdseye]

Talking to the captain of a big ferry on the way back from Spain, he made exactly the same point as raised by Alexi. The visibility of a masthead tricolour from the bridge of a big ship and seen against shore lights was very poor. He recommended that we always use deck level lights plus steaming lights whatever colregs say.

Personally, I' thinking of fitting a white strobe light. Sod the regs, being seen is what matters.

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[GuyMcB]

The idea of a strobe light is interesting, however it might be a little counter productive if some high speed craft confuses it with say a fairway mark!

Having looked at all the responses on this thread, I can only conclude that the general consensus seems to be that the col regs are generally seen as advisory and better off ignored if one has a better idea.

I know us sailors take a pride in being an independant minded bunch, but I did think that generally we all agreed to adhere to the col regs, with the main debate being limited to interpretation rather than all doing our own thing.

Incidentally, I'm thinking of fitting the back of my car with a whole bunch of piercing white lights to make sure no one runs into the back of me. Someone I spoke to said he'd done the same and hadn't had an accident in 10 years. Though he's seen hundreds!!

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[powerskipper]

It can be very scary

to a helmsman ,

when it is their first time

out at night,

they spend time reading and learning what

the signals,and lights,


they expect to see

and then they do not see what they expect ,/forums/images/icons/wink.gif







<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/>http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/</A>
Julie

 

[Oldhand]

Well said Guy. I would like to see all those who support showing lights differing to COLREGs requirements advising us why they think its OK to disregard the rules on lights and to advise what other COLREGs they believe to be advisory and why they think they can ignore them. They should also advise their maritime training and experience in thier responses. This would give HMG every reason to hit all pleasure boaters with regulation, licensing and cripling fees so we have to pay to be "unprofessional" seafarers.

Its no wonder the professionals ignore collision COLREGs when it comes to pleasure boats and vessels under sail, they never know what we are doing, which direction we are going in and what we might do next. If we all did our best to demonstrate a responsible and seaman like attitude, then we might gain more respect.

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[brianhumber]

Re: Nav Lights and WAFI\'s

Anybody who has been on a ships bridge trying to see yacht trilights against shoreside lights in a restricted channel will understand why my first old man used to refer to all yachts as WAFI's - I can still see him now. These days modern radars have no doubt made things for OOW's easier but if enough people flout the Coll Regs, the ensuing free for all will make life for us much less certain and more dangerous. Anybody who has been scared s---less by unlit RIBs buzzing past at 40kts after the Cowes fireworks should get my point.

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