Nav Lights on 20ft

[Ubergeekian]

"the standard nav lights for a small sailing vessel [eg mast tricolour, pulpit bicolour, steaming light and stern light]"

Personally, I think all but the mast head one are pointless on a small boat: the lower ones are too near the water to have any range worth bothering about.

I use a masthead combination tricolour (for sailing) and all-round white (for motoring). I can get away with that thanks to Rule 23 (d) (ii):

"a power-driven vessel of less than 7 metres in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights"

Even the tricolour is, strictly speaking, unnecessary for those of us with smaller boats, since 25 (d) (i) says that

"A sailing vessel of less than 7 metres in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, but if she does not, she shall have ready to hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent a collision."

but although I sailed without any lights on that basis for a year or two, I do find the masthead light more reassuring.

Ian

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Nickel]

I agree that the pulpit lights have a very restricted range given how low they are to the water - but on balance I reckon if, in a close quarter situation at night, just one glance tells someone which way I'm going, then I think they're worth it.



<hr width=100% size=1>Nickel

Being paranoid simply means - having all the facts.

 

[Pelican]

Re: for sailorbaz

Thanks your reply but please excuse my ignorance but how do I PM you?
I shall be up in the "haute lac" in September and wud love to meet up with you guys!
Cheers
Pelican

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[FullCircle]

To peter B:
I use the tricoulour and a forward facing white on the mast. The tricoulour is not allround white remember....

And to clarify - the 12M i.e under 12Metre rules require the lights to be certified to 2 NMiles and 10w does this with my configuration of lens. A 20 metre length requires to be certified to 3 N Miles. I choose the 12M because its all I need for coastal work and it saves the battery and it was 12 quid not 40 quid.

Jim

<hr width=100% size=1>Our engine will never wear out - it only runs for 5 mins before packing it in again.

 

[peterb]

The tricolour light is only mentioned in Colregs as allowed for sailing vessels. Bi-colours can be used for power craft. The difficulty with your scheme is that your lights look like those of a fishing vessel not making way (i.e. red over white or green over white). To be legal the red/green lights must be lower than the steaming light.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

<<To be legal the red/green lights must be lower than the steaming light.>>

Actually the word LEGAL implies a strict adherence without exception - not true.

Have you seen a Submarine, an Aircraft Carrier ...... just to quote 2 examples of vessels that carry some strange configurations - and I mean the normal lights - not specials such as flashing strobes etc.
Of course if design and construction of the vessel allows for 'correct reccomended' positioning of lights - then you are EXPECTED to comply. I would find it hard to believe that you would be prosecuted for a different array as long as you have port - red, starboard - green etc. etc.

Too many times we read about Legal / Law / Regulations etc.- and in fact that is not strictly correct as its usually an interpretation of the poster / reader not the written item in fact.I agree that it is not bad to assume to that - in fact better - then compliance will be assured.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[oldharry]

<Personally, I think all but the mast head one are pointless on a small boat: the lower ones are too near the water to have any range worth bothering about>

I disagree. It depnds a bit where you sail, but in crowded lndlocked waters such as Chichester Harbour, masthead lights are too high up to register in the scheme of things and can be missed.

I eqip my boats with a Masthead light for seagoing sailing, and a set of 'steaming lights' on one switch with a pulpit mounted Bicolour for use in confined waters.

Masthead lights not only too high up, but can easily get lost against shoreside street lights etc at close quarters.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[peterb]

Submarines and aircraft carriers are legal too, under Rule 1(e). But I'll bet that you can't find any Goverment determination that a small yacht can look like a fishing vessel.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[peterb]

The relevant regulations (for British ships) are The Merchant Shipping (Distress Signals and
Prevention of Collisions) Regulations 1996. You can access them at www.seamanship.co.uk/login/SIs/14 Navigation and Collision/1996 0075.htm
Notice the penalties for non-compliance.

Interesting. I tried to make it into a link, but it didn't work. Seems to work OK if you copy and paste, though.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by peterb on 21/08/2004 12:17 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[FullCircle]

<<The tricolour light is only mentioned in Colregs as allowed for sailing vessels. Bi-colours can be used for power craft. The difficulty with your scheme is that your lights look like those of a fishing vessel not making way (i.e. red over white or green over white). To be legal the red/green lights must be lower than the steaming light>>

Well there is the anomaly then. Sailing craft can have tricolours. Have you ever seen a sailing boat with a masthead tricolour with a forward facing white over it? I haven't. Most have an all round white over for anchoring.
Anybody can see that I am underway just by following my transit. At the end of the day you've seen me and guessed that I am someone in a small boat with no clue what he is doing, without a fresh copy of ColRegs on board.
Now where are the Xmas lights I was putting in the crosstrees?

<hr width=100% size=1>Our engine will never wear out - it only runs for 5 mins before packing it in again.

 

[Guest]

No-ones saying you can show what you like or impersonate another vessel ....

The point is the lights as prescribed are to be fitted as closely and as practicable to the specs given. The rules do in fact allow devaition due to construction or design of the vessel fitted to. To say Legal etc. implies other and is not strictly correct ..... and quoting Merchant Shipping Acts etc. only adds to the argument.

If your vessel can fit lights in prescribed positions - then its hard to justify why you haven't - but again the rules are not absolute .... if they were designers would have to start with lights and build around them ....

Boy I wish I'd stayed out of this argument ..... it goes nowhere really ...... the original postee will fit his lights as best and according to his reading of the regs .... possibly affected by one or two comments here in the thread - hopefully disregarding our little sideline discussion.



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[FullCircle]

Cheers Nigel - but we managed to sneak ColRegs in again.. wink wink.

<hr width=100% size=1>Our engine will never wear out - it only runs for 5 mins before packing it in again.

 

[peterb]

Nigel, I suspect that you and I will continue to differ over this one. This forum regularly has discussions over Colregs. If you analyse the contributions they fall into several classes:

1 "I follow the rules to the letter." Works very well, providing that the other vessels involved follow them equally well (and are keeping a good lookout). Falls down when someone gets one wrong, though it should be covered under Rules 8 and 17. Trouble is, too many people forget 8 and 17.

2 "Might is right." Not too bad when expressed as "I give way to anything bigger than my own boat", but not so good when it's "I stand on to anything smaller than me."

3 "The Racing Rules are the same, aren't they, and anyway don't racing boats have right of way?" No, they're not and they don't, and the sooner racing skippers know it the better.

4 "I don't see why sailing and power boats have different rules. I treat everyone as a power boat." Might be OK if everyone did it, but they don't.

I reckon that if everyone (professional as well as amateur) followed Colregs, we'd be a lot better off. The trouble comes when people invent their own sets of rules, on the basis that these will be better (or more convenient) than Colregs. An awful lot of experience went into writing Colregs; why do some people think they know better?



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

"Personally, I think all but the mast head one are pointless on a small boat: the lower ones are too near the water to have any range worth bothering about."

I disagree.... the steaming light draws attention, and then the bi-colour will usually be visible with careful observation at a reasonable distance....

I agree that if it were JUST the bicolour mounted on the pulpit, then it might be missed.... but then that would be an 'incorrect' configuration for the lights anyway...

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[sailorbaz]

Re: for pelican

You need to login then go to Help - look at 'Sending and receiving Private messages'.
I have already sent you one. When you login you'll get it.
Sailorbaz

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[duncan]

don't see peterb's comment as an anomally at all

as stated or implied in many of the above posts

sailing vessels are permitted to combine the R/G and rear facing white into one masthead unit when sailing.

when motoring you aren't a sailing vessel and cannot (should not) show that combination. In your case adding a forward facing white will result in the identifications peterb sets out and the possible behaviors associated with them - ie some may pass closer in front of you than you might expect!

In other words you are better showing an allround white than that combination when motoring.

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif