National Boat Registration

[boatcompliance]

OK, Lets see where this goes, the more that post then the better idea we will all have as to the general feeling towards a national registration scheme for boats.

One thing that I will say is that when a show of hands was asked for at a meeting held at London Boat Show a few years ago as to whether the industry would like to see it I was shocked at quite how large a positive response their was. Of around 200 people in the room approximately 80% put up their hands when asked if they wanted it.

Their will be, of course, advantages and disadvantages. The whole VAT status discusion could be helped by it. So to would establishing clear title. Not many people would by a car without the log book. I know some do so don't get drawn in to specifics.

Also, not many people are aware quite how many boats are being used by unsuspecting owners that are actually ilegal. Why? Because over the last 10 years thousands of boats have been imported and not CE marked. We come across them daily, ask your local surveyor. We would often go to the docks at Southampton on a weekly basis and count 50-60 used boats. Certainly a proportion of these were diligently CE marked by the importer, but only a small percentage.

If the Declaration of Conformity was required to register your boat then this problem could be solved tomorrow.

I am sure that their are lots of you that will see it as an infringement of your rights, and big brother wathching over you, but there are some key benefits to the boating public, of which I am one.

All of you in the trade I am sure will be able to add a host of other benefits.

OR Will Blow Me Out The Water!!

Either way, food for thought!

 

[Searush]

Is this a troll? As it happens, my boat is Part 1 registered so I know I have full 64/64ths title to it. But WTF, how much more stupid regulation can we take? This is about as clever as e-borders. Are you including jet-skis/ speedboats. Will you allow, or require SOR(water?)N? Isa it just for new boats, how much will be charged for the "priviledge"? How big a building full of tax soaking bureaucarts will be needed . . .

Need I go on? Oh & I don't see a single solitary benefit for the poor sap who has to pay for all this, either as a tax payer or boat owner. So go away with your stupid & unnecessar ideas please, we already have far too much control, taxation & bureaucracy in this silly little overpopulated country of ours.

 

[boatcompliance]

Searush I think you should get off the fence and say what you really mean!

 

[jfm]

I agree 100% with Searush. We already have the part 1 and part 3 registers avaialble to anyone who wishes to use and pay for them. We don't need any more.

It would be useful if you specified what problems the proposed register is supposed to fix, and how it fixes them.

 

[Searush]

[ QUOTE ]
Searush I think you should get off the fence and say what you really mean!

[/ QUOTE ]

You may think that, but I couldn't possibly comment . . . . /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

You are an old forumite under a new name & I claim the £5 reward for spotting you. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[boatcompliance]

Hi JFM, I think that you just hit the nail on the head, you, along with searush, are amongst the minority that have taken the volantary step of Part 1 or SSR, both of which, as you know, have a cost implication.

Unfortunately, unless you take your boat abroad or want to raise finance on it you are unlikey to take this step. I mention some of the benefits in my original post, clear title, CE marked, VAT status, to name a few.

 

[mikewilkes]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a troll? As it happens, my boat is Part 1 registered so I know I have full 64/64ths title to it. But WTF, how much more stupid regulation can we take? This is about as clever as e-borders. Are you including jet-skis/ speedboats. Will you allow, or require SOR(water?)N? Isa it just for new boats, how much will be charged for the "priviledge"? How big a building full of tax soaking bureaucarts will be needed . . .

Need I go on? Oh & I don't see a single solitary benefit for the poor sap who has to pay for all this, either as a tax payer or boat owner. So go away with your stupid & unnecessar ideas please, we already have far too much control, taxation & bureaucracy in this silly little overpopulated country of ours.

[/ QUOTE ]

The job description " Recreational Craft Directive Consutant & CE Marker "
and user seem to say it all.

He be just after more work and dosh................................

/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[boatcompliance]

Hi Mike, thanks for your view, but you seem to have the wrong end of the stick, I believe that it should be run by the Government, perhaps out of Swansea. How does that line my pockets.

Searush, you will notice that unlike some, I registered in 2006, used my own name and website, so no scams this end.

 

[dt4134]

Presumably 'the industry' wants it because they can see a way of making money out of it.

There's only one area in the UK that needs more regulation and that is the area of lobbyists, vested interests and empire-building civil servants who are pushing extra legislation for their own benefit at the expense of democracy and traditional freedoms.

 

[mikewilkes]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Mike, thanks for your view, but you seem to have the wrong end of the stick, I believe that it should be run by the Government, perhaps out of Swansea

[/ QUOTE ]

But it already is run by Swansea , why do we need yet more government bull poo..............................

 

[nimbusgb]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, not many people are aware quite how many boats are being used by unsuspecting owners that are actually ilegal. Why? Because over the last 10 years thousands of boats have been imported and not CE marked. We come across them daily, ask your local surveyor. We would often go to the docks at Southampton on a weekly basis and count 50-60 used boats. Certainly a proportion of these were diligently CE marked by the importer, but only a small percentage.



[/ QUOTE ]

Illegal, perhaps. Actually unsafe, less likely. Sure some may not comply to some other stream of euro regulation but all you appear to be doing is adding to the paperwork.

VAT? C&E already acknowledge that they can't prove that VAT has NOT been paid.

What real problem are you trying to solve?

 

[jfm]

Hang on BC. You say you have mentioned the benefits (of your new scheme) as "clear title, CE marked, VAT status, to name a few". That's just bollox. Clear title is done perfectly well by Parts 1 and 3, and by other means, so there is no problem that needs to be fixed. CE Marked is nothing to do with your register. If folks are bringing boats into EU with no CE marking, they will continue to when your register is set up. VAT status will not be dealt with by any such register, unless you get the agreement of the tax authorities in say a dozen EU member states, which will involve assuring them of no loopholes in the system. See you in about 10 years, when you're 1/3rd of the way through sorting that one out... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

No, no, no, absolutely not /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif The govt intereferes far too much in our daily lives already. Any registration scheme will cost money to administer which will result in an annual licence fee for the boatowner. Then the govt will have a database of boats and their owners which will make us an easy target for further taxation and yet another piece of information about us that they don't need to have. Then the next step will be compulsory licencing for boatowners and then we'll need a floating police force to control it all. Boating is one of the last few ways we've got to get away from these barstewards without them nosing into it. Rant over. I think I'll go for a lie down now

 

[elton]

[ QUOTE ]
Of around 200 people in the room approximately 80% put up their hands when asked if they wanted it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why don't you do a poll on here and see what response you get? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[gjgm]

a show of hands was asked for at a meeting held at London Boat Show a few years ago as to whether the industry would like to see it I was shocked at quite how large a positive response their was. Of around 200 people in the room approximately 80% put up their hands when asked if they wanted it.
****
Are you sure that was the question?Or was it a variant of that theme?
I wouldnt be against it if it achieved something useful. Maybe you HAVE to be part 1 or 3, for example. But how does that help those who cant support the documentation? You end up with a "pardon", which undermines the validity of the registration, or many boats not registering. Umm. well, bit like now then.

 

[timbartlett]

[ QUOTE ]
Of around 200 people in the room approximately 80% put up their hands when asked if they wanted it.

[/ QUOTE ]It depends who was in the self-selecting sample, what was said about the pros and cons of such a scheme before the vote was taken, and how the question was asked.
[ QUOTE ]
The whole VAT status discusion could be helped by it.

[/ QUOTE ]How?[ QUOTE ]
So to would establishing clear title.

[/ QUOTE ]Not if it's like a car log book, which does not provide proof of title.[ QUOTE ]
Not many people would by a car without the log book.

[/ QUOTE ] True, but if it were not a legal requirement, I doubt whether most of us would care about it.
Last year I part-exed my car for a newer one. They both had log books. But the DVLA screwed up, and then tried to extract a "penalty" from me for their cock-up. 13 months and forty odd letters later, the case finally made it to court, where the judge threw it out.
That, it seems, is the fundamental problem with any kind of registration: whatever the benefits might be, the guaranteed drawback is that it will create a whole new crop of "offences", with a whole new crop of civil servants to "enforce" them -- none of whom will ever countenance the possibility that they or their colleagues are capable of making mistakes. See also the problems with Ofcom that are so frequently aired on the ybw forums.
[ QUOTE ]
Also, not many people are aware quite how many boats are being used by unsuspecting owners that are actually ilegal.

[/ QUOTE ]Most boats in the EU (including the UK)pre-date the need for RCD and the "need" for CE marking, so owning them or even selling them is not illegal.
[ QUOTE ]
If the Declaration of Conformity was required to register your boat then this problem could be solved tomorrow.

[/ QUOTE ] The only thing that makes the absence of a CE mark a "problem" is the legislation that makes it compulsory. We bought and sold boats perfectly well before CE marking. If registration were made compulsory, as well, then it would be yet another piece of paper to get lost, and another entry in someone's database to be miskeyed, corrupted, lost, or sold to a junk mail company. [ QUOTE ]
there are some key benefits to the boating public, of which I am one.

[/ QUOTE ]There are some massive disbenefits to the boating public. There may be a few fringe benefits to some members of the marine trade, but it seems to me that the only real beneficiaries would be the civil service. Even surveyors need to balance all the pre-purchase surveys they would lose against the flat-fee tick-in-the-box "surveys" that will be done by government-approved oiks who have completed a three day course (like the Home "energy assessors").[ QUOTE ]
Either way, food for thought!

[/ QUOTE ]Certainly food for thought. But I'm afraid I find it pretty distasteful.
Fair winds
Tim

 

[Tranona]

If there are really 50 or 60 boats at any one time in Southampton Docks and only a small percentage are getting a CE mark then there is something wrong with the authorities! The law already exists to prevent this (and evasion of VAT) so why is it not being enforced? Every single import through the docks has to clear customs and VAT if appropriate so what is the problem?

Methinks you are creating a problem that simply does not exist! If, on the other hand you have independent verifiable evidence to support your claims then present it to Trading Standards and HMRC who I am sure will take notice of somebody authoritative like you in your position.

If you need support from the wider boating community to prompt the authorities into action then post your evindence here first.

However in the absence of hard evidence I think what you are saying falls into the category of "urban myth", which as we all know is not a sound basis for making policy decisions.

 

[adey]

Let's see..

 

[leomagill]

My boat is ssr'd but the only id number involved is the bit of vinyl stuck to the side of the boat,£25 would get me another number, I don't know of any other id numbers on it (it's an oldie) so how exactly would this show my ownership in any way? If someone changed the name and put a new number on the side who would know?
There must be a huge number of other boats about with no real id on them so what a load of crap.

 

[epervier]

I have my boat, I have the keys to my boat, I have a MCA bill of sale,showing 64/64ths and it's official number, WTF else do I need?

Answer:- Nothing!

I lie, lots of tax free diesel /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif