Nation flag - common practice

[gunnarsilins]

Hi.
I´m writing an article for a Swedish Cruising magazine "Pa Kryss" about rules and practice concerning nation flags, and guest flags when sailing abroad.

In Sweden the rule regarding nation flags are, hoisting 08.00 and down at sunset, but not later than 21.00. The same with a guest flag under starboard cross tree when abroad.
But more and more people seems to carry the nation flag day and night when they are on board. Some also use te blue EU-flag with stars instead of the swedish blue with yellow cross, which in theor is against the rules.
I assume the rules in England are similar to the ones here.

But, what is the common practice? Are the rules strictly followed? And is there a trend to establish a new practice? What about EU-flags, and "local" nation flags, like the scottish and others?

 

[aquaholic]

as far as Iam aware its the same here, sunrise to sunset, courtesy flag from the starboard spreader.

 

[bbg]

My understanding is that the sunrise to sunset "rule" is really just a tradition. I don't think there is any law or regulation.
And as far as I know, the courtesy flag stays up day and night.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

Practice in the UK (England and UK are not synonyms by the way) is quite varied. The 'rule' about taking ensigns in at night is said to derive from a 17th century admiralty scheme to save money on the flag budget. Many yachts leave their ensigns up more or less permanently.

Here in the UK there is an increasing trend for people in the Celtic Fringe (Scotland, Wales, Cornwall) to wear 'national' ensigns rather than the standard UK ensign. I have a Scottish Saltire ensign which I frequently use but would not dream of displaying in another country outside the UK except perhaps as a 'house flag'.

I think the main thing is to be sensitive to local rules and sensibilities; there's a German flagged yacht parked just across from me at the moment wearing a national flag on the stern, a UK ensign as a courtesy flag at the starboard spreaders and a Scottish Saltire at the port spreaders, as an acknowledgement that she is in a Scottish port.

Here in the UK we also have an extra layer of complexity with the various kinds of ensigns that can be flown instead of the standard UK red ensign, and which denote the different status attached to particular yacht clubs. All part of the peculiar British class system.

 

[Litotes]

Here in the UK we also have an extra layer of complexity with the various kinds of ensigns that can be flown instead of the standard UK red ensign, and which denote the different status attached to particular yacht clubs. All part of the peculiar British class system.

Even the Royal Cork Yacht Club has its own (blue) ensign. Wonderful club. Is rebel Cork part of the "peculiar British class system"? Or is it just doing as other clubs do around the world? (Commemorating its history)

 

[Litotes]

Hi.

But, what is the common practice? Are the rules strictly followed? And is there a trend to establish a new practice? What about EU-flags, and "local" nation flags, like the scottish and others?

An ensign isn't required for British yachts in home waters, although you see one on most yachts. (not sure why - it just wears them out faster)

It is certainly becoming more and more common to see local courtesy flags on the port spreader when visiting Scotland and Wales (which really are different countries, albeit parts of the United Kingdom) and in Cornwall (which is part of England, but does have a distinctive identity, as well as a language more or less shared with wales and Britanny, although this has pretty much died out) It is a pleasant courtesy to follow this custom.

 

[reginaldon]

An ensign isn't required for British yachts in home waters, although you see one on most yachts. (not sure why - it just wears them out faster)

It is certainly becoming more and more common to see local courtesy flags on the port spreader when visiting Scotland and Wales (which really are different countries, albeit parts of the United Kingdom) and in Cornwall (which is part of England, but does have a distinctive identity, as well as a language more or less shared with wales and Britanny, although this has pretty much died out) It is a pleasant courtesy to follow this custom.

Never seen an EU ensign worn , neither do I wish to see it.

 

[Gordonmc]

My understanding is that the sunrise to sunset "rule" is really just a tradition. I don't think there is any law or regulation.
And as far as I know, the courtesy flag stays up day and night.

The time of striking the ensign is traditionally set by the senior vessel in an anchorage or port. The practice is thought to originate from the avoidance of whippersnappers embarrassing the brass.

 

[photodog]

The UK is known for its strong following of tradition , I find that most people are keen to observe the proper ettiqute in regards to ensigns... and in particular there is almost a universal approval for those who make the effort to espouse tradition by properly wearing Blue ensigns, which epitomises our Nautical heritage.

It is refreshing to watch as the more plebian wearers of the red ensign follow the traditions of our nation by saluting their superiors with the blue by dipping their ensigns in passing, or at the very least tipping their hat in acknowledgment of the superior boat.

OTOH UK boaters are also keen to explore their national identity... so we see a growing move towards regional ensigns such as ...

These are also widely accepted and ecouraged in the spirit of tolerance and acceptance which is so widespread in the UK.

 

[KellysEye]

There is an EU flag with the circle of stars and the national flag in the top left hand corner. We've seen a number of them particularly German and French. I've never seen a UK one and hope I never do.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Hi.
I´m writing an article for a Swedish Cruising magazine "Pa Kryss" about rules and practice concerning nation flags, and guest flags when sailing abroad.

In Sweden the rule regarding nation flags are, hoisting 08.00 and down at sunset, but not later than 21.00. The same with a guest flag under starboard cross tree when abroad.
But more and more people seems to carry the nation flag day and night when they are on board. Some also use te blue EU-flag with stars instead of the swedish blue with yellow cross, which in theor is against the rules.
I assume the rules in England are similar to the ones here.

But, what is the common practice? Are the rules strictly followed? And is there a trend to establish a new practice? What about EU-flags, and "local" nation flags, like the scottish and others?

The UK is more like Italy than Germany in that any rules there might be, mostly conventions rather than laws, are not followed with any seriousness. We overwhelmingly use the red ensign ( and if authorised the blue one) which are the legally correct ensigns for the UK . Some people use regional flags like the welsh or scottish flag which are not legally correct but you will not get problems whichever you chose as your courtesy ensign. Nor will you get problems if you simply dont bother to fly any ensign at all.

The only exception to that could be Northern Ireland. I dont know the situation there but personally I would fly neither the UK ensign nor the Irish one. But then I would never go there anyway.

The union jack is never the ensign - save that one for your tea towel or whatever. And flying the Euro ensign will only irritate the colonel blimps.

Leaving it up at night? Who cares?

 

[reginaldon]

The union jack is never the ensign - save that one for your tea towel or whatever. And flying the Euro ensign will only irritate the colonel blimps.
=================================================================

And every right-thinking Englishman!

 

[TamarMike]

The union jack is never the ensign - save that one for your tea towel or whatever. And flying the Euro ensign will only irritate the colonel blimps.
=================================================================

And every right-thinking Englishman!

oh and don't even consider the St George's cross, that is the prerogative of Admirals and Royalty

 

[FistralG]

...

It is refreshing to watch as the more plebian wearers of the red ensign follow the traditions of our nation by saluting their superiors with the blue by dipping their ensigns in passing, or at the very least tipping their hat in acknowledgment of the superior boat...

Apparently dipping the courtesy flag to the host countries naval vessels as a sign of respect can have an interesting effect as they are obliged to respond by dipping their ensign. Watching the rating rushing to the mast can provide a few moments entertainment I've been reliably informed!

 

[Angele]

Apparently dipping the courtesy flag to the host countries naval vessels as a sign of respect can have an interesting effect as they are obliged to respond by dipping their ensign. Watching the rating rushing to the mast can provide a few moments entertainment I've been reliably informed!

Did that to HMS Invincible when she was anchored outside Portsmouth the day before she entered the harbour for the last time before being "paid off" (or, more accurately put in "reserve").

It was a real hoot watching the poor sailor who was ordered to leg it to the end of the flight deck to dip her ensign in acknowledgement.

And my crew was dead impressed that I got such a reaction from an aircraft carrier!

 

[Bosun Higgs]

oh and don't even consider the St George's cross, that is the prerogative of Admirals and Royalty

And the BNP of course.

 

[dt4134]

The only exception to that could be Northern Ireland. I dont know the situation there but personally I would fly neither the UK ensign nor the Irish one. But then I would never go there anyway.

You're missing out on some fine cruising if you're avoiding NI just for that.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Oh goody. Another flag etiquette thread

There was a discussion about ensigns on the Mobo forum last week.

 

[binch]

Flags and ensigns

When I first went to sea before WW2, the courtesy ensign was unknown, and I have no idea when it started. Certainly I never saw one anywhere in the fifties.
In the sixties I first saw it mentioned that it was "approved" because other nations did it, and the courtesy ensign should be flown from the foremasthead.
Yachts started the habit later, and because the masthead was the place for the club burgee, they hoisted the courtesy ensign from the starboard cross-trees. Now, hardly anyone except the RCC flu the burgee from the masthead (in fact hardly anyone flies a burgee anyway.
When I first went yottin' in the forties, everybody in the anchorage hauled down ensign and burgee at sunset. I think they liked playing at "navy".
As yottin spread to oi polloi, there was a sort of reverse snobbery and some gloried in provoking the establishment. Nowadays, there is really no flag etiquette left except in Lymington.
The Royal Navy hoisted "colours" at 0800 or in winter in high latitudes at sunrise, and lowered ensign at sunset or 2100, which ever was the earlier.
The Royal Norfolk and Suffolk Yacht Club (aka the Royal Nobs and snobs, used to fire a gun at sunset and the club boatman lowered the ensign at the club house.
What do I do in my boat?
I fly the ensign from a staff at the stern. Sometimes I remember to lower it, often I forget. I do not worry.The burgee is at the mainmast head. The courtesy ensign is at the fore.
NB some countries will fine a visiting yacht if they do not fly a courtesy ensign properly, which begs the thought :: what is courtesy?
The important thing is enjoy sailing, and enjoy having a tot with other yotties.

 

[Jaytac]

But, what is the common practice?

I don't thik there is any.

Are the rules strictly followed?

No.


But what unites folk in these parts is that they may moan, complain and argue over what is correct flag etiquette - but we don't set fire to a man over the colour, shape or symbol on his flag.

Well, apart from the odd Swede. Ocassionally