Nasty taste in the mouth

[DeLam]

Or Spanish Marina greed .
Explanation:- Boat registered to son and daughter who live in the U.K.
Kept in Spain where we live ,We maintain it and see the bills are paid.
Boat moved to Marina at El Campello (just north of Alicante) shortly after
it opened. A pleasant marina with good facilities but security zero.
Its a 33 ft. boat but marina said call it 10 mtrs. And if you pay a year in advance you get it at low season rates. this came out at about £1300.
4 years later this had got up to £1700 Then the dreaded Euro, the end of 2001
saw people laundering the "under the bed" or black money. It was used to buy second homes, luxury cars, boats, marina berths,etc -result shortages.
So 2002 saw marina fee rise to nearly £3000.
During the year the marina underhandedly obtained registration details from the U.K. authorities ,I know this because the bills were adressed
to my daughter whose name had never been divulged to the marina.Presumably to see if they could sting me for the iniquitous "Spanish registration tax"
Then this year I go to pay -Boat is registered as 10.07mtrs. therefore now
in the 10 to 12 mtr. catagory ,no listening to argument that it had always been accepted as 10 mtrs.Also no discount for years payment in advance but if
I didn`t pay the berth could not be guarenteed.
The bill for the year is now approx. £5600. It is not as though there is any alternative ,all marinas along this not very attractive cruising area. So what
does one do but pay the greedy people. Don`t tell me to take up golf because green fees are £100 or more these days.
To add insult to injury the terrible Spanish postal system has not yet delivered the MAY issues of YM and PBO.
Life gets tedius don`t it



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[milltech]

The price of paradise! N.M.

x

<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>

 

[Heckler]

greece is nice

and are happy to see you
stu
(the china merchant)

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[cgull]

My marina (UK) has moved the goalposts..my 24ft is now in an over 6.5m bracket rather than under 7.5m , so thats an extra 600/yr. Same pontoon..

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[tcm]

Re:disagree.

You somehow managed to get under the 10m limit for some years. Which was very kind was it not? Now, perhaps with a new management or whatever, they've decided to stick a bit more closely to the rules. The boat is over 10m long, no question. And the prices have gone up. Before, the were less than you expected, now much more. People aren't greedy if they charge more than what you used to get away with. Same as they aren't actually "idiots" if they overtake you one the motorway - they're just going faster than you would.

You do have a choice - sell the boat, move to greece, lots of choices. No cause for complaint imho.

Note: in southern med countries there is much more a culture of persoanl relationships than in straight-batting UK. "Presents" which are hazily possibly bribes, and suchlike. If you find yourself in a position of favour again, make sure you hand over the occassional bottle of scotch. It works wonders. No way of finding out now, of course.


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[smee]

If your in that area you might want to watch out for the Valencia G5 port tax. This is a tax that appears to be illegal and its rather exorbitant and they back charge!
It may be spreading around the area. If it catches up with you, send me a private message and I'll forward the name of the lawyer who is contesting it!!!



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[DeLam]

Re: The price of paradise! N.M.

Sorry, John, It`s may seem like Paradise But if you live here its not much different than any where else. Especially in the summer when the whole of Europe seems
to descend here!
Derek

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[DeLam]

Re:disagree.

Not sure what you are saying. The marina said originally that they would call
it !0 mtrs ,not me. The marina has not "changed hands".
If you think a price rise of 75% in one year is not greed then you standards
differ from mine.
The change of range from 10 to 10/12 mtrs introduced another 75% increase
again this would be acceptable to you ?.
Obviously we differ in our views of fairness.

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[tcm]

Fairness: Eat the Rich

Everyone's view of "fairness" differ. It is a big subject. Can I recommend PJ O'Rourke's book "Eat the Rich" ? It questions the applicability of the "fairness" to economic matters.

In this example, it's not exactly "fair" that you have a 10m (ish) boat and others don't have any boat. It's also not "fair" that you have a 10m (ish) boat and others have a 100m boat. The word has application in games of cricket. But no application in economic matters.

So, it is "fair" that you should be charged almost nothing for your berth - the port is there already and the place would be less attractive without the handsome boats attracting tourists and so on. But it also "fair" that you be charged based on an ability to pay, which might be £20,000 a year or more - you'd still be richer than many who have no boat.

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[steve_cronin]

That is Socialism...

So if I earn twice as much as you I should pay twice as much for a box of matches eh?

Now the socialists believe that each should contribute according to his means. Contribute that is to something like a public service NOT in the course of a normal commercial transaction between two private parties.

Oh, I get it; you're trying to wind the guy up!

Steve Cronin

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[tcm]

Re: That is Socialism...

Ooh, i had better be careful: i normally get e-duffed-up (?) with my political rantings.

I'm not sure if you do/don't agree that people should contribute "according to their means". And isn't that a weird yet good-sounding statement for a start? A normal working person might have savings, blow the lot on a jolly good time, reduce themselves to poverty- hurrrah, everything is cheap cos they have very little means. I saw a report of a chap who bought his mum's house for a song, engineered her to pay vast rent, and when everyhting was gone (from her) metaphiorically wheeled her to the front door and castigated the govt for "abandoning the old people".

Fact is, excluding "public services" from the normal rules of transactions is strange. in our clear experience, the cost of public service rises and rises. It never ever goes down. They are triumphant that taxes are "only 34%" or only "40% of earnings". Jeez. When any of us was 20, (massive inexactitudes here, excuse me) the cost of a pint was say 0.5% of earnings. Can you imagine if it was the same now!!! Public services costs, with spectatcular improvement in comms and transport and especially computers (ideal for this sort of thing) shoul go down all the time as a %of earning. Not up.

I think public services should be rolled back. Do have a read of "eat the rich" if you get a chance. Or, Pm me and I will gettit sent to you. I will not charge for postage unles you hint that you have massive means, in which case postage will be £10,000

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[ean_p]

Re: That is Socialism...

May I have a copy please, or does your bountiful gesture not extend to the very poor. Who as such will not be expecting to have to make a contribution of any kind, especialy for the mundane such as 'postage'.
I shall of course look forward to its arrival!

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[tcm]

The first shall be last etc

another rubbishy saying.

I will wait for S Cronin to confirm that he has read said tome, else you get it first, or second. BUT you wil have to pay for postage back to me - or you may hand it to me down the ranks as you pass by (I will be the middling-fat git WITHOUT a furry hat taking the salute in Red Square nearest The People's MacDonalds)

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[duncan]

Re:disagree.

looked at a different way if you had been paying for a 10-12m boat (which you have) in previous years you wouldn't have quite the same issue.
if you had, as tcm suggests, reinvested a reasonable amount of the difference 'let's call it 10m' gave you - you might not have either problem.
Th eother guy probably said - it's not fair I have been saving him XXX a year and all I see is a beer a year..........

however, despite the above, I agree with you regarding the reasonable expectation that 'services' will increase only gradually - unfortunately more and more people, firms etc are taking a more short term approach and charging what they think they can get from a tied market.

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[steve_cronin]

Forget money....

...

Since we're considering fantasy (like a lot of PJ O'Rourke's work)

Lets consider the situation in a land where there is no money only "credits" in their simplest form. You know, I am good at roof tiling and useless at painting fences at which you excell. So I agree to replace the 27 tiles torn off by a gale on you roof in exchange for you painting the 15metres of new fence I have just errected.

But wait you say, I know that what you propose is the going exchange rate but I am only able to paint ten metres at a time. That is my "ability" so that's what the law of our brave new world dictates I do. Do you really expect me to swallow that sort of crap? No there is absolutely NO place for this sort of rubbish in personal dealings. As to contributions towards the state machine? well that again is another question but (apart from the blind and the elderly?) we all pay the same for a TV licence and my car costs as much to tax as that of a mother of 5 on benefit.

Please don't send me your copy of "Eat the Rich" I got rid of mine to the Scouts Rummasge Sale only a month or two back!

I find him entertaining not stimulating or informative. Rather in the old vein of "Those who do,DO; those who can't, TEACH; those who can't teach, WRITE BOOKS ABOUT IT!

Steve Cronin

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[colvic]

You could move way up North to Barcelona and save at least £2k a year. Dennia has just charged a chap £3900 for a year for a boat UNDER 10 mtrs and water and electric are not included.

If you want to see a bit of Spain, be able to get across to the Islands etc.etc. then contact Miguel at Pobla Farnals, 10km. North of Valencia. Some berths would even have a finger, everything is included with the best facilities we have used ANYWHERE in Spain and for cash you won't pay £1500.

PM me if you want more details


Phil

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[tony_brighton]

Re: Fairness: Eat the Rich

Its a fair market - unfortunately supply is far less than demand; until supply exceeds demand then the prices will keep rising. Its a perfect capitalist model.

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[Birdseye]

Dont know whether this is of any help, but before I took my boat abroad, I got myseld a new ssr giving the length below 10m rather than the 10.05 it was before. proved very useful in french and spanish marinas, since foreigners take such documents seriously. from memory, ssr allows you to ignore pulpits and transom rudders anyway.

have you measured your boat? you might be surprised since very few boats are actually as long as the xyz 33 suggests.

and do be careful about spreading these subversive stories of price gouging foreign marinas. its well established here in the uk that the british yottie is much worse off than the european one, and is ripped off at every turn.

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[polarity]

re the SSR, get yourself Part 1 registered and your boat becomes quite a bit shorter... with a nice laminated card to prove it.

....

Of course if its called a Jenavarateau PF - 45 thats a bit of a give away!


<hr width=100% size=1>Paul
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.polarity2.com/Clipper.htm>http://www.polarity2.com/Clipper.htm</A>