My mast mounted equipment budget conscious thoughts - AIS, wind, radar

[FairweatherDave]

My mast is coming down shortly for general inspection and so that I can mount my VHF antenna where it should be, and not on the pushpit rail. Then I remembered I also need to install a radar reflector (as a stop gap I carry one below to haul up a halyard were I to want to). I also have AIS receive. So a bit of re-reading around the subject including the YBW threads and I have concluded the following:-
1. I will fit an Echomax 230 passive so that I satisfy SOLAS requirements and recognise its limitations.
2. Ultimately I will get an AIS transceiver that I hope will connect wirelessly to my tablet (I don't have a chart plotter). This will act as an alternative to an active radar reflector and keep my dreams alive for crossing the channel one day.
3. I won't replace my broken whirly anemometer as I haven't missed it other than having numbers to talk about, I have a windvane for direction which I do use.
4. I have an old Furuno radar unit that I don't know how to use and have never touched in the 7 years we have had the boat - as a weekend Solent sailor of modest ambition I have no plans to change that so it might come down.
Obviously these are compromises, fully functioning radar and wind instruments would be nice. Anyone care to pass comment?

 

[Daedelus]

Echomax is more or less ok, heeling is a weak reflection, Mrs D used to reckon the whirly thing's sole purpose was to scare the crew, if you ever do cross the channel the radar is very useful. Not everything is on AIS and fog banks (and the shore) can loom up suddenly. So, I'd consider a Firdell reflector which did about as well as the echomax and choose personal preference, I'd hang onto the radar but learn how to use it - see the issue that poor Wakhuna had.

 

[Yealm]

I'd have

Echomax is more or less ok, heeling is a weak reflection, Mrs D used to reckon the whirly thing's sole purpose was to scare the crew, if you ever do cross the channel the radar is very useful. Not everything is on AIS and fog banks (and the shore) can loom up suddenly. So, I'd consider a Firdell reflector which did about as well as the echomax and choose personal preference, I'd hang onto the radar but learn how to use it - see the issue that poor Wakhuna had.

The chances of bumping into one of the tiny number of boats crossing the Channel without AIS in poor visibility must be negligible?

 

[Tranona]

in a similar situation and my budget solution to AIS is a Quark multiplexer with a dongle GPS 12n to 5v power supply a splitter from the same source using a Vitronix masthead antenna with a Hawke wind indicator. This will send AIS to a tablet over wi fi and via 0183 to a Garmin 75. Personally not a lover of transmit from a safety point of view when crossing the channel - the big step up is knowing the position of ships in relation to you - they have radar and AIS so the chances of not knowing your existence are minimal.

 

[FairweatherDave]

in a similar situation and my budget solution to AIS is a Quark multiplexer with a dongle GPS 12n to 5v power supply a splitter from the same source using a Vitronix masthead antenna with a Hawke wind indicator. This will send AIS to a tablet over wi fi and via 0183 to a Garmin 75. Personally not a lover of transmit from a safety point of view when crossing the channel - the big step up is knowing the position of ships in relation to you - they have radar and AIS so the chances of not knowing your existence are minimal.

Yes, your Quark set up is what I currently have....and it was bought for the same logic. My question really arose from concern about being seen and the adequacy of the passive reflector. Cost wise not much in it between an active reflector and an AIS transponder. And the urgency of the question by the fact that the mast will be down for a short while. But it seems that the only action I need to take while the mast is down is the VHF job as planned and the passive reflector. Meanwhile it was a bit of a realisation that you can have a transponder without a chart plotter....so I thought I would bring that into the debate.

 

[dgadee]

AIS from a good VHF aerial and a Hawk. No need for more.

 

[Plum]

My mast is coming down shortly for general inspection and so that I can mount my VHF antenna where it should be, and not on the pushpit rail. Then I remembered I also need to install a radar reflector (as a stop gap I carry one below to haul up a halyard were I to want to). I also have AIS receive. So a bit of re-reading around the subject including the YBW threads and I have concluded the following:-
1. I will fit an Echomax 230 passive so that I satisfy SOLAS requirements and recognise its limitations.
2. Ultimately I will get an AIS transceiver that I hope will connect wirelessly to my tablet (I don't have a chart plotter). This will act as an alternative to an active radar reflector and keep my dreams alive for crossing the channel one day.
3. I won't replace my broken whirly anemometer as I haven't missed it other than having numbers to talk about, I have a windvane for direction which I do use.
4. I have an old Furuno radar unit that I don't know how to use and have never touched in the 7 years we have had the boat - as a weekend Solent sailor of modest ambition I have no plans to change that so it might come down.
Obviously these are compromises, fully functioning radar and wind instruments would be nice. Anyone care to pass comment?

In my opinion, out of the devices you have mentioned, only the VHF aerial needs to be at the masthead. Connect the AIS to the existing aerial on the pushpit. Radar reflector only needs to be about 4m up.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[FairweatherDave]

In my opinion, out of the devices you have mentioned, only the VHF aerial needs to be at the masthead. Connect the AIS to the existing aerial on the pushpit. Radar reflector only needs to be about 4m up.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

Well 4m is a long enough drop?
Yes I was going to keep the AIS aerial on the pushpit.
But on the subject of the anemometer I was a bit shocked at the price of a new one so since I have coped perfectly well I thought I would leave it. I am assuming the masthead is the only location on conventional yachts.

 

[Sandy]

1. I will fit an Echomax 230 passive so that I satisfy SOLAS requirements and recognise its limitations.

✔

2. Ultimately I will get an AIS transceiver that I hope will connect wirelessly to my tablet (I don't have a chart plotter). This will act as an alternative to an active radar reflector and keep my dreams alive for crossing the channel one day.

Err, it won't act as an alternative to an active radar reflector unless the fundamental laws of physics change! An AIS transceiver will transmit your position and work out where you will collide. An active radar reflector increases your radar return making you look bigger than you actually are.

3. I won't replace my broken whirly anemometer as I haven't missed it other than having numbers to talk about, I have a windvane for direction which I do use.

✔ But having the numbers is useful for confirming that it is really a F9.

4. I have an old Furuno radar unit that I don't know how to use and have never touched in the 7 years we have had the boat - as a weekend Solent sailor of modest ambition I have no plans to change that so it might come down.

I'd remover the radar if you are not using it and flog it.

 

[FairweatherDave]

✔

Err, it won't act as an alternative to an active radar reflector unless the fundamental laws of physics change! An AIS transceiver will transmit your position and work out where you will collide. An active radar reflector increases your radar return making you look bigger than you actually are.

✔ But having the numbers is useful for confirming that it is really a F9.

I'd remover the radar if you are not using it and flog it.

Cheers Sandy! Yes, I understand the differences between active radar and AIS transponders but both alert the big ships. And I'm not in the market for both.....so which do you go for first? Inevitably I think people's views are influenced by when the technology became available and where they were in terms of their yachting ambitions.
And I am still hoping someone might say they use a transponder with a tablet. At the end of the day this is still ahead of my likely sailing this summer.

 

[westhinder]

Keep the radar and learn how to use it, a no brainer really.
AIS is very useful and sooner or later you will want to be seen by other boats/ships as well, so why wait? Fit that transceiver while you’re at it.

 

[Neeves]

I would use the radar and check its power usage. I don't know your yacht, nor its power 'capacity' - but radar can use a lot of power. The power consumption may influence your decision, for the radar, and the other items you are considering.

Radar has other uses than allowing you detect moving targets. It adds to your navigational facility as it will define rain and allow you to sail round not through a rain patch - even more important if you need to dodge thunderstorms. Normally you rely for much of navigation by eye sight - in fog - radar overcomes your 'blindness' and is reassuring. None of this is critical - but you have it, so learn to use it (or decide to forgo the pleasures - then sell it (as suggested).

When sailing off the wind having true wind speed is useful. It is very easy (or it is to me) to enjoy the pleasures of sailing fast and forget that when you round the headland you then need to sail hard on the wind - and if its blowing 25 knots (true) you might want to put the reef, or two in now - not when you realise you were lulled into a false sense of security.

We don't have AIS, so I will not comment, - we really don't have that much commercial traffic and those that are transitting the coast tend to be large and lit like Xmas decorations. The vessels that are hazard are small private motor boats out at, say, 50 fathoms fishing at night - and they don't have AIS and their pathetic lights are often hidden in the swells (good radar picks them up).

So - I agree with previous posts - you have radar, learn to use it. But check, as you are learning, of its power consumption and then make your decisions

It is unlikely your, old, Furuno radar display will repeat any of the other data you have - so it will be stand alone (one reason it will use power - the display will gobble amps). it is also unlikely you can view it wirelessly on a tablet - unless by old you mean 2 years old.


I'd also encourage you to stop dreaming of crossing the Channel - get out there are do it. If you choose your weather with care you need almost none of the kit you describe.


Jonathan

 

[Sandy]

Cheers Sandy! Yes, I understand the differences between active radar and AIS transponders but both alert the big ships. And I'm not in the market for both.....so which do you go for first? Inevitably I think people's views are influenced by when the technology became available and where they were in terms of their yachting ambitions.
And I am still hoping someone might say they use a transponder with a tablet. At the end of the day this is still ahead of my likely sailing this summer.

Personally, I'd go for AIS before active radar.

Here is my thinking. AIS allows you to be tracked by friends and family, the Coastguard and by ships IF they are not filtering Class B, it allows you to call a ship up by name and they to call you by name. I have yet to see anybody but me do a DSC call!

I finally linked my AIS unit up to the chartplotter last year before setting off from Plymouth to Peterhead and back. I could look at the shipping round me, on one occasion a guard ship called me up requesting that I stand well off a survey vessel. Oh, Border Force cutters often work in stealth mode, fun when you see one heading towards you at an estimated 20 knots during civil twilight. During my trip I found that the 'big stuff' was very good at COLREGS.

I've joined the TSSs up in la manche with pen lines as it gives me a good idea where all the 'big stuff' will be.

 

[johnalison]

If I were in the middle of the Channel in fog and given the choice of radar or AIS I would definitely choose radar. AIS is brilliant at what it does, but it doesn’t enable you to ‘see’ around you as radar does. I have only been in open sea in fog a few times but on each occasion it was radar that changed it from a terrifying experience into a perfectly manageable one that was almost enjoyable.

Radar is not hard to use in simple mode in open water, but a lot depends on where the OP intends to sail. If he wishes to restrict himself to coastal cruising then radar may be a needles complication. If he wants to sail the Channel it comes down to a matter of cost. Given the choice, I think that most people would go for AIS which is useful even in good visibility and accept that there are going to be occasions when the forecast gives the possibility of bad visibility and they will have to delay or forgo the trip.

 

[Neeves]

It is worth reiterating that Fairweather Dave has Radar (though he apparently has never switched on in the 7 years he has owned his yacht) but does not have an AIS transmitter.

Sometime in the future he hopes to invest in an AIS transceiver but queries, or wonders if, he can connect it wirelessly to his tablet (he has no MFD) (and I assume his radar screen is unlikely to display AIS returns)

Sorry Dave if I've misinterpreted.

Jonathan

 

[johnalison]

It is worth reiterating that Fairweather Dave has Radar (though he apparently has never switched on in the 7 years he has owned his yacht) but does not have an AIS transmitter.

Sometime in the future he hopes to invest in an AIS transceiver but queries, or wonders if, he can connect it wirelessly to his tablet (he has no MFD) (and I assume his radar screen is unlikely to display AIS returns)

Sorry Dave if I've misinterpreted.

Jonathan

He also include the possibility of taking down the radar. Given that it is probably an old set, this might make sense if he is not going offshore. Depending on the boat, the reduction of weight aloft will be beneficial, but another factor might be the value of the boat and saleability if he might sell it in the next few years. I think he is mistaken if he thinks that AIS transmission is a good substitute for an active radar reflector, which might be the ideal option if the cost can be met.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Well everybody seems to have got 99% at least from what I have said and I know it is a large can of tasty worms! But it is no troll. I really do see the huge benefit of radar and would love to be doing that kind of sailing, but I'm not and its unlikely. If my crew were to get the taste for channel crossings it makes complete sense, as would the AIS transceiver. But most people I have read here say 1. you need to understand radar and practice it 2. most people rarely use it. 3. most people do use AIS for channel crossings, even if just a receiver as I already have. So the nub of my debate is perhaps here in what johnalison wrote
" I think he is mistaken if he thinks that AIS transmission is a good substitute for an active radar reflector, which might be the ideal option if the cost can be met."

 

[FairweatherDave]

Perhaps I can add a bit of background .....most of our sailing is in the Solent and often it is a busy place indeed. I seldom use our AIS for anything other than interest, collision avoidance is by mark1 eyeball and knowing the ferry routes. I barely go below as I'm needed on deck . Upshot of all this is that opportunites to practice technology are few and far between - its very different to the channel, North sea or even down in the South West.
But back on thread, who has an active radar reflector and uses it ( and values it over AIS?)

 

[boomerangben]

Radar is pretty useless if it’s down below and you are not there! So I agree FWDave, despite radar fans, unless it’s on a pedestal at the helm it’s pretty useless. You need to have two crew who can use a radar and helm and communicate effectively between each other. AIS transponder wireless to a display at the helm would be the way I would go. I would struggle with a radar reflector on my mast unless it was active and So I reckon the better compromise would be an AIS transponder.

 

[FairweatherDave]

A little more info on the radar. It is a Koden MDL7 and was purchased in 1995 ....
I think things have moved on.