My main sail has recently become baggy between the tack of the Main sail and to approximately 1m up the luff. Then it is taught as it should be

Refueler

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Surely no one hoists a sail with the mainsheet sheeted in & the vang down hard. :rolleyes:
There should be no tension on the leech whatsoever. In fact a small ( just enough) amount of topping lift to take the weight of the boom is my preferred option

I generally agree with you as having sheeted in can create extra friction etc. But my kicking strap never gets adjusted - even when winging it ... but then again I'm only a small Motor Sailer.
My Topping lift is set to carry boom so it doesn't rub sprayhood and just enough slack when sail hoisted to allow sail to carry boom.
 

Chiara’s slave

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Agreed but first principles don't change ......
Setting a sail is much the same on any Bermudan rig. I could set yours, and you could set mine, yet they’re as far apart as is possible really. We’re better at our own boats of course, just by use and practice. Looking back at whats been said, I revise my opinion to agree with the tight mainsheet and kicker. I tend to forget kickers as I don’t have one.
 

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Setting a sail is much the same on any Bermudan rig. I could set yours, and you could set mine, yet they’re as far apart as is possible really. We’re better at our own boats of course, just by use and practice. Looking back at whats been said, I revise my opinion to agree with the tight mainsheet and kicker. I tend to forget kickers as I don’t have one.

Others have lumped in on kicker ... even though I had mentioned it way back as well as boom angle etc.

Cheers Chiara ....

Guess I'll go on back to my old faithful !! ;)
 

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Others have lumped in on kicker ... even though I had mentioned it way back as well as boom angle etc.

Cheers Chiara ....

Guess I'll go on back to my old faithful !! ;)
But you do not set the kicker until AFTER the sail is hoisted? You said that you never adjust your kicker. Implying ( forgive me if I am wrong) that you just hoist the sail with kicker set. (that being said I vary the adjustment on my kicker at different angles of sail so setting it at one set permanently seems wrong again.)A pre loaded kicker just loads up the leech when the OP wants as little load on the leech as possible, when hoisting his mainsail. In fact, unless one just has a tarpaulin for a sail, I would have though everyone would do that. Clearly I am wrong. But perhaps people are not actually worried what their sails look like when hoisted. Perhaps that is why one sees so many badly set baggy sails when out sailing
I do not always have the boom end in the centre when going up wind either. It just kills my speed. It works better just over the cockpit combing with the mainsheet adjusted to suit the leech curve. So ramming it in hard when hoisting the sail, would once again be alien to me.

As for having a high boom to avoid hitting one's head - I would suggest one learns how to tack & gybe & learn how to avoid crash gybes. Once again that is not rocket science (& that is coming from someone who is 6ft 6ins tall)
 
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Refueler

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But you do not set the kicker until AFTER the sail is hoisted? You said that you never adjust your kicker. Implying ( forgive me if I am wrong) that you just hoist the sail with kicker set. (that being said I vary the adjustment on my kicker at different angles of sail so setting it at one set permanently seems wrong again.)A pre loaded kicker just loads up the leech when the OP wants as little load on the leech as possible, when hoisting his mainsail. In fact, unless one just has a tarpaulin for a sail, I would have though everyone would do that. Clearly I am wrong. But perhaps people are not actually worried what their sails look like when hoisted. Perhaps that is why one sees so many badly set baggy sails when out sailing
I do not always have the boom end in the centre when going up wind either. It just kills my speed. It works better just over the cockpit combing with the mainsheet adjusted to suit the leech curve. So ramming it in hard when hoisting the sail, would once again be alien to me.

As for having a high boom to avoid hitting one's head - I would suggest one learns how to tack & gybe & learn how to avoid crash gybes. Once again that is not rocket science (& that is coming from someone who is 6ft 6ins tall)


Oh Dear DB ... you are in a tizzy aren't you .....

Superanne for some strange reason rarely needs the 'rope' kicker altered ... I can easily if necessary - but as I say its rare. Even with main right out winging it - the kicker is fine.

The main was replaced by previous owner and is a real cruising cut ... not one I would choose - but it works. The Roach is such that Kicker will never have that much effect on shape.
That's something you've passed by without apparently considering ... Roach plays an important part in this game.

I have raced ... in fact was winner of 2003 Baltic Regatta .... have placed well in various other .... so its not a strange world to me in altering various factors in sail set ...

Who mentioned 'high boom' ??? Must scroll back to find that !!
 

alahol2

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I had a similar problem, the solution was a mix of lubrication and Daydream Believer's original suggestion of a curved slide attached to the headboard. The headboard can cause a 'normal' slide to tip in the track and that can cause enormous friction.
 

ritchyp

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Well I thank you all kindly for all the theories and suggestions.
The spray hood is pretty high as it has a removable panel which when attached, closes off the companion way, hatch and coaming where the halyard and reefing winches are and also all the jammers for kicker, topping lift, genoa and spinnaker. The panel is only used when the boat is not in use or if the weather is bad. It has an entrance way which you zip up 2 zips the width of the companionway and that section can be rolled up and secured with poppers. I am 5' 10" and have to stoop a little to pass through so its pretty tall.
Being an Ocean class boat, she is meant to be sailed with the hood up. We sailed her from Ipswich to Southampton back at the beginning of February this year. The ambient temperature over the 3 leg journey was 1 to 2 degrees C so in the Channel the wind chill was definitely sub zero and it was a blessing to have the additional height to keep out of the wind.
Definitely no slack in the luff on that 3 day passage. The topping lift needs to adjusted so that the boom is 2" higher than the spray hood so that when you sheet the main in tight and boom gets pulled down, it doesn't chaff on the spray hood which it did on day 2, until I spotted it.

I'm inclined to check out the comments made by Laika about the sail possibly being cut like that to allow the boom to cross the centre line without fouling on the sprayhood but I am also going to check (and address if necessary) all the other theories and ideas.
This Sunday morning 11th June, it looks as if the wind will be very light up in Southampton around the Docks and the Itchen (50% chance of rain though :/ ) so I will try everything to get the luff nice and taught, I want to hoist the sail without the cars/slugs in the track so I can see where the sail head should be in relation to the mast head for future reference. I will check all the slugs and replace with spares if broken or badly worn and of course lubricate them. I can check and lubricate the full height of the track when I go up the mast in a week or 2.

My last sail was with a guest who has competent crew but probably doesn't get the chance to sail that often and began only 2 years ago so I should have double checked a few things but when hoisting, the vang was completely off. Reefing lines were free, its possible that the mainsheet was a little too tight as he was on deck sweating it at the mast, I didn't want the boom shaking too much as I could see he is not a natural yet. It was warm and sunny so I let the topping lift off afterwards so the boom dropped until the TL was not under load and the boom was lower than ever before. I wish i had looked at the luff before I let the TL off....

So In final summary, I am going to consider and try all options. I intend to replace the main halyard before doing any proper offshore sailing I have 50m of new 12mm dyneema in the back of my car. The current main halyard has a 40mm metal eye spliced into it so it maybe be stopping the the halyard up at the masthead sheeve, wouldn't a regular spliced eye give me a little more to get the head of the sail closer to the sheeve?

Thanks R
 

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"The current main halyard has a 40mm metal eye spliced into it so it maybe be stopping the the halyard up at the masthead sheeve, wouldn't a regular spliced eye give me a little more to get the head of the sail closer to the sheeve?"

Problem with braided halyard and splices .... the length the splice takes in standing part often causes problems due to its increased diameter. Many times I've seen such jam as it tries to enter halyard sheave ... its also a lot stiffer resisting any curve to enter the sheave.
Its why I never have a splice at head of sail ... always a knot.

Regular spliced eye ? I don't think having the metal eye is a problem ... its more likely to be the extra diameter of the line where the splice is fed back in ... its usually quite a long part of rope ...
 

Tranona

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So In final summary, I am going to consider and try all options. I intend to replace the main halyard before doing any proper offshore sailing I have 50m of new 12mm dyneema in the back of my car. The current main halyard has a 40mm metal eye spliced into it so it maybe be stopping the the halyard up at the masthead sheeve, wouldn't a regular spliced eye give me a little more to get the head of the sail closer to the sheeve?

Thanks R
A halyard knot is easy to do youtube.com/watch?v=zEEYkfINomY but not worth chopping your hard eye off the existing halyard.

Rather than hoisting the sail flying, suggest you attach a mousing line to the shackle and hoist that. You can then compare the length of that with the luff of your sail. suspect the problem (as others have suggested) is the length of the eye and splice is preventing full hoist by jamming on the sheeve.

A halyard knot to the shackle will reduce the overall length from headboard to sheeve quite substantially.
 

Refueler

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A halyard knot is easy to do youtube.com/watch?v=zEEYkfINomY but not worth chopping your hard eye off the existing halyard.

Rather than hoisting the sail flying, suggest you attach a mousing line to the shackle and hoist that. You can then compare the length of that with the luff of your sail. suspect the problem (as others have suggested) is the length of the eye and splice is preventing full hoist by jamming on the sheeve.

A halyard knot to the shackle will reduce the overall length from headboard to sheeve quite substantially.

I agree that not necessary to chop of the eye .. as its the splice anyway MAYBE ... simplest is to end for end the halyard - so the non eye end is now to attach to sail. Easy to do .... attach a light line to heaving end of halyard ..... and then pull eye end of halyard .. bringing whole halyard out ... and leaving light line in place. Now undo halyard from light line and connect to other end of light line ... pull through so now halyard is now reversed .. eye is now at base of mast and non eye end is for making to sail.

Now you can test the theory of the splice jamming at sheave ...

I would not use the light line to test hoist of sail ... if a slug jams or something happens - then that line may not survive !!
 

oldbloke

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Well I thank you all kindly for all the theories and suggestions.
The spray hood is pretty high as it has a removable panel which when attached, closes off the companion way, hatch and coaming where the halyard and reefing winches are and also all the jammers for kicker, topping lift, genoa and spinnaker. The panel is only used when the boat is not in use or if the weather is bad. It has an entrance way which you zip up 2 zips the width of the companionway and that section can be rolled up and secured with poppers. I am 5' 10" and have to stoop a little to pass through so its pretty tall.
Being an Ocean class boat, she is meant to be sailed with the hood up. We sailed her from Ipswich to Southampton back at the beginning of February this year. The ambient temperature over the 3 leg journey was 1 to 2 degrees C so in the Channel the wind chill was definitely sub zero and it was a blessing to have the additional height to keep out of the wind.
Definitely no slack in the luff on that 3 day passage. The topping lift needs to adjusted so that the boom is 2" higher than the spray hood so that when you sheet the main in tight and boom gets pulled down, it doesn't chaff on the spray hood which it did on day 2, until I spotted it.

I'm inclined to check out the comments made by Laika about the sail possibly being cut like that to allow the boom to cross the centre line without fouling on the sprayhood but I am also going to check (and address if necessary) all the other theories and ideas.
This Sunday morning 11th June, it looks as if the wind will be very light up in Southampton around the Docks and the Itchen (50% chance of rain though :/ ) so I will try everything to get the luff nice and taught, I want to hoist the sail without the cars/slugs in the track so I can see where the sail head should be in relation to the mast head for future reference. I will check all the slugs and replace with spares if broken or badly worn and of course lubricate them. I can check and lubricate the full height of the track when I go up the mast in a week or 2.

My last sail was with a guest who has competent crew but probably doesn't get the chance to sail that often and began only 2 years ago so I should have double checked a few things but when hoisting, the vang was completely off. Reefing lines were free, its possible that the mainsheet was a little too tight as he was on deck sweating it at the mast, I didn't want the boom shaking too much as I could see he is not a natural yet. It was warm and sunny so I let the topping lift off afterwards so the boom dropped until the TL was not under load and the boom was lower than ever before. I wish i had looked at the luff before I let the TL off....

So In final summary, I am going to consider and try all options. I intend to replace the main halyard before doing any proper offshore sailing I have 50m of new 12mm dyneema in the back of my car. The current main halyard has a 40mm metal eye spliced into it so it maybe be stopping the the halyard up at the masthead sheeve, wouldn't a regular spliced eye give me a little more to get the head of the sail closer to the sheeve?

Thanks R
I'm a bit concerned about your using the topping lift to keep the boom above the spray hood while sailing. That really is not what it's there for. The topping lift is only used to keep the end of the boom up when not sailing, reefing etc . A tight topping lift when sailing ruins the leach tension and thus the shape and power of the sail. If the boom end is really too too low then you may be better putting in a reef to shorten the sail till you can get it all sorted.
 

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I'm a bit concerned about your using the topping lift to keep the boom above the spray hood while sailing. That really is not what it's there for. The topping lift is only used to keep the end of the boom up when not sailing, reefing etc . A tight topping lift when sailing ruins the leach tension and thus the shape and power of the sail. If the boom end is really too too low then you may be better putting in a reef to shorten the sail till you can get it all sorted.

What makes it strange though ... if guy is keeping TL to lift boom end ... WHY is luff not tensioning ? The Leech will be slack - so not impeding hoist.

It sends my train of thought back to mast / luff etc.

I think we need concentrate on getting that luff tensioned - then worry about topping lifts etc. To be honest - long before now - I would have lowered sprayhood to allow me greater range of boom movement.
 

oldbloke

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I realise that the topping lift while sailing is unlikely to be the major issue, but felt it worthy of mention.
I agree re sprayhood while sailing.
I strongly suspect the main halyard is the issue. In the sort term, no need for a new one , just tie it on leaving a 2 foot tail and see
 

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I realise that the topping lift while sailing is unlikely to be the major issue, but felt it worthy of mention.
I agree re sprayhood while sailing.
I strongly suspect the main halyard is the issue. In the sort term, no need for a new one , just tie it on leaving a 2 foot tail and see

Sprayhood while sailing ?? I as many others leave it up .... that's what its there for > SPRAY HOOD .....

I only mentioned sprayhood down purely during this event ... not generally ...
 
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