My First Motor Boat 40-45ft 10-15 Years Old in Meds - Advice for Newbie

[CharlesinWater]

Hi all of you seasoned sea travellers.

Its my first post here so bear with me please.

I'm dreaming of my first motor boat for over 18 years. Always business was more important or family or other things.

Finally few months ago I decided enough is enough and 2026 will be THE YEAR when I finally get one for myself.

I cannot afford anything new, even if I negotiatied 150-180k euro discounts on last Dusseldorf show 500k-600k is just stupid money to loose 200k in depreciation after 2 years - yes dealers were so desperate to close deals.

So as this is my first boat I will own, I dont want to spend more than £200-250k.

As I decided to keep it in Meds in Croatia or East Italy I will go for flybridge to enjoy weather and have bit more space outside instead of inside.

The brands I like are Galeons, Prestige, Bavaria R40 or Virtess. The likes of Princess, Sunseeker, Azimut etc would be out of budget withing 15 years old.

In terms of operating boat I'm ok and very confident. What I would like to know from your vast library of accumulated knowledge is what realistically im getting into buying 15 year old boat.

Some of them have small blisters, some osmosis blobs on the hull, some damaged bellows on pods or few mm out on shaft misalignment.
Some you can see some leaks in engine room or pretty oxidised plumbing cocks in hull from brown water discharge. Engines hours from 250-1000h roughly so i reckon should be fine with
proper service, oil check, water ingress, seals etc.

I think I know theory of it all, I have pretty good engineering mind but I want to enjoy time on the boat, work on it a bit, generally to change scenery and fly every month for a week or two and I dont want
to repair it all the time even if after some training I could probably take the Penta apart and assemble it - too old for that. I know there will be issues so it will not be a surprise for me.

So my question is should I worry about first boat for a 2-3 years 15 year old (later I would buy 50-60ft 3 cabin to keep it for longer but not my first one) or just do good survey, maintenance on engine/props/ac/generators
and take it day by day?

What challenges you were faced with your first motor yacht and what should I look for? Or I should go for 2005-2008 but closer to 50ft if those few years doesnt make a difference for a boat aside for older finishes?

Thank you

Charles

 

[kashurst]

That's a decent budget. Flybridges are a good choice and med based builders tend to do bigger cockpits than UK builders.
I would be looking at older boats of other makes too. 20 years old or 15 years old doesn't make a lot of difference if it is in good condition.
I would look for a well built model with evidence of being well cared for. Boat interiors in the med can get wrecked by the sun so look for a boat where the owner has used window covers. Clean and tidy engine bays with good access to everything and no nasty smells under the decks are essential.
Watch out for diesel bug in any med boat. I'm not a fan of pods either.

Unless you really need three cabins or more I would stay under 45 feet in length. They are cheaper to run and service. Go up to 50 feet or more and the running costs go up significantly. Diesel isn't cheap any more. The other thing about staying a bit smaller is that it makes getting a berth in other marinas easier, especially if you haven't booked in advance.

Have fun looking.

 

[jrudge]

In the med it is a second home so you want space. 50 ft plus. I have a squadron 58. Don't go small to then upgrade. Changing boats is generally hassle and the commissions to sell quite large. The vast majority of transactions won't take px so you sell then buy which slows it more. Boats.co.uk are one of the few exceptions who do a deal on anything with anything.

Boats go wrong. I am lucky that in my 20 years or so of bigger boat ownership I have never had a time I can't go out but plenty breaks.

My boat is 2004. 100% of everything works. Over winter all jobs are done. If you don't do that you start the season on the back foot.

I have had a brand new squadron 65. Friends have brand new processes and Fairline's. They all have th same number of issues that my current boat does. Some maybe different as they are new so not wear items but stuff on boats just beaks. It's a 3/4 bed house with 2/3 bathrooms/ kitchen. Ac. Engines. Thrusters. Generator. Sinks. Toilets. Pumps. Batteries. To make matters worse they are used to 4 months and left for 8 in damp salt water. They go wrong.

Age matters less than the state of repair. If it is knackered and un cared for it will take time and money to get up to scratch. You must keep it there if not to have a miserable season. Fixing the odd bit in season is fine but if you start with a large deferred list it will drive you mad.

Teak on new boats is thin and starts to show real wear at about 10 years. I have just replaced mine. It is very expensive so look out for it. It is easy to miss as you walk round in the sun. As mentioned above the med sun also kills interiors. Especially the flus that holds the linings to the walls. That is another £25k bill so you need someone Else to have done that.

If the engines are cat they have a heat exchanger replacement and inspection regime which is also £££ make sure someone else has kept it up

In essence don't be the mug that picks up the deferred maintenance and refurb jobs the last one we could not be bothered or afford to do. Walk on.

 

[kashurst]

Good point about teak decks. Teak in the cockpit, bathing platform and the flybridge is lovely, But teak side and foredecks decks are hard work.
Everyone uses their boats differently. The magazines often show people dining on the flybridge. But I prefer the cockpit as it's closer to the galley. and you don't have to keep taking stuff up and down the stairs all the time. Plus any movement of the boat is magnified up on the flybridge and bottles, glasses etc fall over more, unless you are quick or have a stabilizer/gyro. So I prefer bigger cockpits with flexible seating over large flybridges with U shaped fixed seats for eating.

 

[Boaty_Pete]

You don't say what experience you already have, (based on your opening questions, you have very little), but for someone with none, a 1st boat at 60ft, as owner, mechanic, cleaner and skipper is a big step. That's a lot of boat.
Especially if you're buying something that can throw a lot of issues at you in the 1st few years. Any boat can and will but the 15 year mark and the 20 year mark can be significant.
I always tell people that ask me, buy a boat that needs absolutely nothing done at all, that way you'll only be 'busy' fixing and maintaining things, rather than 'swamped'
Having said all that, as advised by jrudge above, if you do buy smaller and it all goes well, you could always feel you should have gone bigger. Bigger is lovely, but it's possible smaller is the way to go when you have lot's to learn, including how and when you will end up using the boat.
I wish you luck.

 

[CharlesinWater]

In the med it is a second home so you want space. 50 ft plus. I have a squadron 58. Don't go small to then upgrade. Changing boats is generally hassle and the commissions to sell quite large. The vast majority of transactions won't take px so you sell then buy which slows it more. Boats.co.uk are one of the few exceptions who do a deal on anything with anything.

Boats go wrong. I am lucky that in my 20 years or so of bigger boat ownership I have never had a time I can't go out but plenty breaks.

My boat is 2004. 100% of everything works. Over winter all jobs are done. If you don't do that you start the season on the back foot.

I have had a brand new squadron 65. Friends have brand new processes and Fairline's. They all have th same number of issues that my current boat does. Some maybe different as they are new so not wear items but stuff on boats just beaks. It's a 3/4 bed house with 2/3 bathrooms/ kitchen. Ac. Engines. Thrusters. Generator. Sinks. Toilets. Pumps. Batteries. To make matters worse they are used to 4 months and left for 8 in damp salt water. They go wrong.

Age matters less than the state of repair. If it is knackered and un cared for it will take time and money to get up to scratch. You must keep it there if not to have a miserable season. Fixing the odd bit in season is fine but if you start with a large deferred list it will drive you mad.

Teak on new boats is thin and starts to show real wear at about 10 years. I have just replaced mine. It is very expensive so look out for it. It is easy to miss as you walk round in the sun. As mentioned above the med sun also kills interiors. Especially the flus that holds the linings to the walls. That is another £25k bill so you need someone Else to have done that.

If the engines are cat they have a heat exchanger replacement and inspection regime which is also £££ make sure someone else has kept it up

In essence don't be the mug that picks up the deferred maintenance and refurb jobs the last one we could not be bothered or afford to do. Walk on.

Hi Jrudge

Thank you for detailed reply.

I agree that maybe going 40ft when i need 50+ is not best approach but bit anxious with my first boat and going 5-7 years older to 2003-2005. Luckily im aware that Im spoiled for living space and openes in houses cars etc so in yachts of 33-36ft i "cannot breath". We pushing eachother in galleys or cockpit, everyhting is tight - and that even with 3 people not mentioning my friends of 5 for example I would like to invite.

Can I ask your Squadron 58 from 2004 how old the boat was when you purchased it? Lot of prep went to make it nice and shiny and reliable before its first season with you?

The cosmetic stuff like wall panels, joinery, upholstery I dont worry about that. I run in past bespoke high end joinery firm with projects for Kelly Hoppen and other designers in London so Setag interior of the yacht I can do for pennies to the pound - but again i dont want it to be project.

Mostly worry about structure, delamination, all inlets outlets through hull, electrical looms and plumbing, bilge pumps etc. If its not taking water and engines firing up the rest i can take care off.

I watched numerous videos and I see there is this "constant need for bigger boat" with almost all users. Thats whats put my 40ft todays purchase at question and if i should go older but 3 cabinet and good living/working space.

Thank you again

 

[jrudge]

Good point about teak decks. Teak in the cockpit, bathing platform and the flybridge is lovely, But teak side and foredecks decks are hard work.
Everyone uses their boats differently. The magazines often show people dining on the flybridge. But I prefer the cockpit as it's closer to the galley. and you don't have to keep taking stuff up and down the stairs all the time. Plus any movement of the boat is magnified up on the flybridge and bottles, glasses etc fall over more, unless you are quick or have a stabilizer/gyro. So I prefer bigger cockpits with flexible seating over large flybridges with U shaped fixed seats for eating.

You need a Seakeeper! We love the fly. Teak side decks are a pain

 

[CharlesinWater]

That's a decent budget. Flybridges are a good choice and med based builders tend to do bigger cockpits than UK builders.
I would be looking at older boats of other makes too. 20 years old or 15 years old doesn't make a lot of difference if it is in good condition.
I would look for a well built model with evidence of being well cared for. Boat interiors in the med can get wrecked by the sun so look for a boat where the owner has used window covers. Clean and tidy engine bays with good access to everything and no nasty smells under the decks are essential.
Watch out for diesel bug in any med boat. I'm not a fan of pods either.

Unless you really need three cabins or more I would stay under 45 feet in length. They are cheaper to run and service. Go up to 50 feet or more and the running costs go up significantly. Diesel isn't cheap any more. The other thing about staying a bit smaller is that it makes getting a berth in other marinas easier, especially if you haven't booked in advance.

Have fun looking.

Thank you Kashurst

Thats what I see. Sun damage is common.

To be honest as i just replied to Jrudge ideally would like 3 cabins. We are family of 3 so 2 cabins fine but my best friends for example family of 5. Get couple of my lads thats already 5-6 people. Ideally 3 cabin 50ft range but going into 2000s early boats.

I have no problem of buying older and sending it for proper check and repairs. Just worry about structure and delamination etc.

Costs for 50ft yes im aware. But i know it will be pricy. Nothing i can do about it.

I will also work from boat. One good idea with fresh open mind on the boat and I can buy 2 new engines so it will work for me too. Just dont want to take water when im having good ideas

Thank you again

 

[jrudge]

You don't say what experience you already have, (based on your opening questions, you have very little), but for someone with none, a 1st boat at 60ft, as owner, mechanic, cleaner and skipper is a big step. That's a lot of boat.
Especially if you're buying something that can throw a lot of issues at you in the 1st few years. Any boat can and will but the 15 year mark and the 20 year mark can be significant.
I always tell people that ask me, buy a boat that needs absolutely nothing done at all, that way you'll only be 'busy' fixing and maintaining things, rather than 'swamped'
Having said all that, as advised by jrudge above, if you do buy smaller and it all goes well, you could always feel you should have gone bigger. Bigger is lovely, but it's possible smaller is the way to go when you have lot's to learn, including how and when you will end up using the boat.
I wish you luck.

Bigger boats are not really an issue but can be intimidating !

 

[CharlesinWater]

You don't say what experience you already have, (based on your opening questions, you have very little), but for someone with none, a 1st boat at 60ft, as owner, mechanic, cleaner and skipper is a big step. That's a lot of boat.
Especially if you're buying something that can throw a lot of issues at you in the 1st few years. Any boat can and will but the 15 year mark and the 20 year mark can be significant.
I always tell people that ask me, buy a boat that needs absolutely nothing done at all, that way you'll only be 'busy' fixing and maintaining things, rather than 'swamped'
Having said all that, as advised by jrudge above, if you do buy smaller and it all goes well, you could always feel you should have gone bigger. Bigger is lovely, but it's possible smaller is the way to go when you have lot's to learn, including how and when you will end up using the boat.
I wish you luck.

Hi Pete

Yes I never owned the boat so experience owning at 0.

Running it perfectly fine as chartered plenty in Med.

Repairwise as I mentioned i dont want to repair it all the time. It will be my 2nd home to relax, change scenery and also work.

Boat will be in Crostia or East Italy coast as we also be buying villa in Italy so that may be a base of operation to do runs in Adriatic sea.

Im no stranger to repairs. Can repair almost anything i put my mind to but I dont want to do it. I work since I was 12 and really i just want to relax now. If something will be broken i prefer to get Specialist from marina than again learn another subject in depth. Of course i need to learn emergency repairs when im under way and have spare parts in engine bay just in case.

As i mentioned on another reply the cosmetic stuff and interiors/joinery/upholstery is easy peasy for me so thats not my worry.

The question Pete is there even a situation i can buy a boat where nothing needs to be done? Aside from new of course.

If you guys telling better to go for this date or this brand i have no problem of scraping another £50-100k for something which will give me relative peace of mind in first year or two of ownership.

 

[jrudge]

Makes no odds. Boats are boats. They go wrong. Mostly small stuff but it needs fixing.

When it all goes well my wife calls it brochure boating. 30% of the time. I can fix close to anything. I have huge volume of tools spares and general parts on board. Stuff is not broken for long.

Forget the arrive and relax unless you went to pay someone to fix it all the time and even then it will go wrong. New / old makes no odds.

As above 99% are not major they just need fixing.

 

[dunedin]

In the med it is a second home so you want space. 50 ft plus. I have a squadron 58. Don't go small to then upgrade. …..

I am sure you are right that buying the wrong boat and swopping after a short period can be expensive - but that applies both ways, and buying too big and wanting smaller would be even more expensive.

It is very hard to argue logically that you need a bigger boat for the Med than elsewhere.
Many people live happily all year round on 40-45 foot boats (many more on smaller sailing yachts). Indeed your 58 foot boat probably has more interior floor space than many peoples houses - and the boat running costs perhaps higher than many people’s disposable income.

In the Med you arguably only “need” a smaller boat than elsewhere, as spend more time outside and mostly overnight at docks so can walk ashore. Logically where you might want a bigger boat is spending time on a boat in more northern climates, where more cold / wet days.
Or going somewhere more challenging such as across the Atlantic (though the motor boat I saw arriving at Stornoway having done the North Atlantic crossing from Faroes in 3-4 m swell from just off the bow, was a 32 footer with an experienced Faroes master mariner).

You can see all the same places and swim in the same water in a 40 footer that you can in a 60 footer (but the reverse does not apply).

 

[kashurst]

Brand new boats are not like brand new cars. They often seem to have "teething problems" and depending on the drive type only get completed after delivery.
Again personal preference and a sweeping statement, but I find the boats built between 2000 and 2010 are better than a lot of the brand new boats today. They tend not to have loads of electronic controls - which look fancy but can be problematic. This period of boats were designed primarily as a boat with some furniture in it and have good seakeeping and the build quality seems better and stronger. More recent boats seem to be designed to a floating house and don't seem as strong and are overly complicated with touch screen controlled bus systems running everything.

If you want reliability look for simplicity. Best boat I have had was a Rodman 38. (I have had 7) It was a 2012 build and built like a tank and very well screwed together with thoughtful engineering, but not the most glamourous designs. I had very few issues with it in 5 years and it rode the waves really well. Very underestimated brand but they sell loads of commercial boats that have a hard life. They seem to carry that design thinking into their leisure boats.

As you have chartered a fair few boats, I guess you already have a good feeling for how much room/cabins you really need on a regular basis. I noticed you have or a looking at getting a house on the coast too and operate the boat from near by. We did similar. When we bought the house we already had a 50ft flybridge. And then mostly stopped using it for longer trips. I discovered that guests etc often prefered the pool to the sea. Sold the 50 foot and bought a 40 footer that we used as a day boat and/or long weekender.

 

[rafiki_]

You are correct in going for a Flybridge, they give more options than sports cruisers for space and accommodation. You will also want a decent tender in Croatia, as there are many superb anchorages to enjoy, and a tender to the beach or for provisions is a must. So a decent sized bathing platform, and a paserelle or hi-low platform to launch should be on your wish list.

Please don’t get too concerned about blisters or osmosis. These can be fixed with little hassle. Of more importance is the powertrain. This is the most significant cost when it goes wrong. You will want shaft drives for reliability and ease of maintenance. Outdrives need constant attention and IPS on a boat out of manufacturers warranty is a red line for me. A bow thuster is a must, and stern thruster really useful too. If the electronics and nav package is aging, then a new system is £5,000 ish.

Consider the brands that are locally common. They will be easier to sell on. There are loads of Azimuts in Croatia and Italy. Galeons are nice but less common.

Good luck, and keep posting on here. You will get lots of information, occasionally useful. jrudge is a hugely experienced med boater, and worth listening to.

 

[jrudge]

I am sure you are right that buying the wrong boat and swopping after a short period can be expensive - but that applies both ways, and buying too big and wanting smaller would be even more expensive.

It is very hard to argue logically that you need a bigger boat for the Med than elsewhere.
Many people live happily all year round on 40-45 foot boats (many more on smaller sailing yachts). Indeed your 58 foot boat probably has more interior floor space than many peoples houses - and the boat running costs perhaps higher than many people’s disposable income.

In the Med you arguably only “need” a smaller boat than elsewhere, as spend more time outside and mostly overnight at docks so can walk ashore. Logically where you might want a bigger boat is spending time on a boat in more northern climates, where more cold / wet days.
Or going somewhere more challenging such as across the Atlantic (though the motor boat I saw arriving at Stornoway having done the North Atlantic crossing from Faroes in 3-4 m swell from just off the bow, was a 32 footer with an experienced Faroes master mariner).

You can see all the same places and swim in the same water in a 40 footer that you can in a 60 footer (but the reverse does not apply).

The difference is you spend a long time on it. Space keeps everyone happy. I spend months on it. There are people who live on 40 ft boats. Ignore economics and offer them a 60 ft boat which will they choose !

 

[dunedin]

The difference is you spend a long time on it. Space keeps everyone happy. I spend months on it. There are people who live on 40 ft boats. Ignore economics and offer them a 60 ft boat which will they choose !

Lots of people spend long times (often longer than your suggested 4 months usage) in other locations also. Easier in the Med with a smaller boat due to weather.
But the reality is few who can afford a 15 year old 40 footer can realisticallly afford to run a 50 or 60 footer.

 

[Boaty_Pete]

Charlesinwater, it seems that what you lack in experience can be somewhat overcome with money. From a few comments you have made, you may be fortunate enough to have a bit more cash than I.
Based on that, I would make some enquiries about the marina's you may like to keep the boat, and those you may consider to visit (sometimes a bigger boat can cause availability of berth issues.) If that all works out then a 55ft boat will very likely suit. Consider as advised above circa 2008-2012 era and stick with known brands and or locally popular brands.
Boats like Azimut, Fairline, Princess, sealine, etc all have good craftsmanship, generally good engineering and electrical systems. A boat of that age, well looked after and updated by a previous owner would suit me right now.
Get a good recommendation for a surveyor and open some dialogue with him right away. He will be your hero, rather than some advice on here (yes the advice on here is extremely good and varied in a good way) but we are not directly responsible but your surveyor will be.
If you are a little unfortunate with some items, you can begin by paying for some quality assistance, while learning along the journey. It's not uncommon (me included) to buy a boat at the top of the budget and not have loads left to pay someone to do all the work. That is when caution is very important, as you then need to know what you're doing. Fortunately I can fix most stuff and save a bit.
Keep asking, we enjoy these threads. We enjoy the journey without spending money. Lol.

 

[ashtead]

You probably want to make a list to narrow down your choices and get some advice on what then is simple to change and what you are stuck with. Based on what is said so far :
1 a brand that is locally popular in area you intend to cruise;
2 the smallest 3 sleeping cabin boat you can get -I guess a newish beneteau trawler 42 squeezes in 3 cabins but too new and out of budget but I assume trawler types not favoured-eg Trader types
3 a make you can sell on easily -nothing exotic then-you don’t mention economy or range required though but is this really a big day boat?
4 simple drives -having read quite a few posts on this forum shaft drives in an older boat with thrusters seem favoured -do you want
5 remember this is a uk centric forum so my and perhaps many here inclination would be uk driven eg a circa 46 foot Princess as opposed to other makes like Azimut etc - clearly -my impression is finish is much better on some uk brands and have smoother lines . Simpler onsell is brands like jeanneau and Bavaria 40something -plenty and Bavaria owners of mobo happy with choice but I guess not with cabins number you want .
6 if looking in med do any boats for sale have chance to take on berth -it might not work like this in Italy but there might be value in buying a boat where the berth can be easily renewed;
7 what’s the exact budget - was confused as to this but assume around €300-400K?
I would thought if you want to buy locally in Italy and not ship out then this might limit choices and a quick solution might be a walk round local marina to see what catches eye ? In uk can do this on the Hamble or port Solent to gage what might appeal
8 I suspect choice once in right general area turns on engines and maintenance history though on basis you are looking for a turnkey boat but will you go smaller to get newer?

Good luck with search.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

My two penn’orth. Go big,and don’t worry about age. My boat is a 48’ flybridge, 1999. Condition is excellent, but it’s too small for six adults to stay on, the third cabin is bunks. Better if it was smaller with two good cabins, or bigger with three good cabins. In the Med I’d say 55-60’ is the minimum for a three cabin boat.

Bigger is easier to handle too, everything happens more slowly.

Also, as @rafiki_ suggests, avoid outdrives and IPS unless you have deep pockets.

 

[stelican]

Have a look at a Fairline 55 circa 2003.
3 cabins plus kids cabin. Should be a few retrimed boats on market.good solid boat and engines.