My day skipper RYA cert, did I earn it?

Koolie

Koolie

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 Jun 2006
Messages
142
Location
East Coast, Boat in Brightlingsea
Visit site
Not to wind any one up but do all the Day skipper's out there feel they have earnt their cert's or do they feel they were just given them for being there?

I took a course last year with a well known company based at, no I will say thier name, UKSA. My cert was handed to me, but I must say, I didn't feel I was capable to skipper a vessel in day light in familiar waters.

I then, after speaking to my nearest and dearest, approached another smaller school based in Gosport for a refresher course they run. The skipper was shocked that I hadn't been taught how to sail onto a mooring. I explained all my evolutions were taught under motor, even though we had 2-3 kts. of puff. She was so suprised untill I said with whom I had taken my course with. Her eyes rolled, with the shake of the head and smile. even though I pressed her to enlighten me, she refused to speak badly about UKSA, stating, 'It's not professional to knock other's'.

I respect her professionalism, but if the instructors out there are aware of this standard why are they so well spoken about.

Has anyone else found the vast range of standards out there. Can these schools be checked on as to who is just handing out certs. My cert has a 'log' number on it, are these real numbers? Can't the RYA monitor which school hands out the most as this surely must be an indication of low standards.

When an accident occurs is the RYA Cert checked on to see if the skipper had been trained corectly, that's if they have one?


I enjoy time on the water, but I'm concerned that there are skippers on the ogin who think because they have a cert they're competent.

Your views Ladies and Gents

Koolie /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
wot certificate /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

do i need one /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
should i have a radio check ( never have to date, sailed many a mile without one- radio that is) /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
am i missing-out /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
The school is meant to run through a syllabus with you ensuring that everything is checked off for the required certification level, doesn't bode too well if they cheat and (if maybe in your case) when they sit everyone down at the end of the week and run through the list, if you don't feel you've accomplished the syllabus, you should say so to the school.

But some people are the same with logging miles in their log book, just fill in what they want. I think the best thing to do is find out how competent the skipper of the boat or the crew is before embarking on long passages, there are bucket loads of day skippers out there lots more competent than quite a few yachtmasters, years and experience beat bits of paper every time. IMHO.
 
I did my day skipper course in Dartmouth, and felt I earned it. One of the candidates had to go back for another weekend before he could have his certificate. We had winds of F7+, so didn't do a lot of sailing, but we did a lot of manoeuvering and picking up moorings, pontoons etc. I can't remember if we picked up one under sail, but I doubt it in those winds.

I've been daysailing quite happily for the two years since.
 
I was fairly competant when i did my d/s. I did it with S/S. No complaints, it was probably my best weeks sailing ever.


We had on our yacht someone who had never sailed, he had his shorebased only. I was a bit gutted because I wanted coastal. Didnt get it because the instructor was to involed in getting a novice to d/s. I am not knocking s/s but this guy shouldnt have been on the course... and yes I did earn d/s as I can imagine anyone would with S/S. At the end I was quietly impressed the novice did so well, testament I suppose to S/S
 
Definately earnt mine but ... after 5 years I'm doing it again because I just don't get enough practice and I feel I'm not up to scratch. I am re-doing it with the same school as before because the skipper / trainer was excelent and he would definately not just hand out a certificate. We did MOB under sail and sailing up to a mooring. I did Comp. crew with the 'other' really big school in the Solent ... never again. In my experience (and I've used smaller outfits for Day skip, Yacht master theory and marine radio) the smaller outfits care about the sylibus and quality of training more than the bigger guys. Perhaps a little unfair as I only took one course with 'the bigger guys' but I will not use them again ... no way.
 
Koolie you,ve done your thing you,ve learnt some more. Now go out and practise and get some experience. You may feel you,ve" Failed your test" but you now know much more than you did "before"

There are "different standards" out there but just glean from your tuition get on the water practice what you,ve learned and then go for you "Yachtmasters" or similar.

There,s Motorboaters and Yachtsmen out there who,ve never had a day,s classroom but they are sh*t hot boat people. Then there are Certificated bods who are total w*nkers

Get afloat and Enjoy! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Hi Kawasaki

Thanks for that, I agree with you. I need to spend more time on the water, (actually moving), to gain that all important experience.

I was told when learning to drive:

When we first get in a car, for our first lesson, we become consciously aware that we are incompetent of driving safely.

Once we have passed, we are consciously aware that we are competent drivers but require experience.

We graduate to becoming subconsciously competent of driving.

Then if we are not careful we become subconsciously incompetent of driving safely.

This I feel can be put to sailing is well then.

How many times have we driven to work and can not remember that roundabout, those traffic lights?

When we're sailing do we feel that the vessel is needing triming, rags or tabs?

It must become an automatic responce to situations, can't think why we do these things, we just do 'em.

As the bow lift's to a swell, do we anticipate this by slight correction by putting a little opposite helm on?

Is this subconscious or reactive?

Time will tell for me I feel.

Regards

Koolie
 
Koolie

I had a conversation Friday last with Steve from Spirit Sailing, (I am Al from AT Sailing, if your wondering Steve) with regards to this subject.

I would welcome Sneaky Shoppers to come and school with us. This would keep us all on our toes. I see it as keeping the standards high, not policing.

Royal Yachting Association do their utmost to make sure we, the approved schools, are of a high standard. We are checked periodically to keep our accreditation. These are stringent inspections carried out by RYA staff.

If you are running a school correctly you have nothing to fear!

Keep up the sailing, keep on questioning yourself.

The joy of sailing should be just that, a joy.

Al Jones
 
Just a footnote. In an earlier life I used to participate in motor bike racing (hence kawasaki) that,s another tale.

Speaking to a revered World Champ one day I asked Him about practise and theory.

The reply I,ll never forget it "Lad thas knows what thas doing just go an do it and practise till it,s second nature, then yew can do it quick like cos thas not thinking abowt it and yewl just do it like"

Yorkshire chappie he was.

Anyway same thing with pratting about with boats.

Sorry to any Yorkshires with my interpritation efforts by gum! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Also factor is the element that if you have fronted £500, or what have you, for a DS chitty you would be less than pleased not to get it at the end of the week. You would also be most unlikely to recommend the place to any prospective students.

Never had the spare readies at a suitable time so never done the practical bit.
 
Koolie Mate, you will do well! I have been sailing since I was 7. My Granddaddy was one of the last to run working barges on the Thames under sail and taught me.
His first lesson I remember well was on "the avoidance of gettin drownded in the water".....
Now at 63 I still don't know it all but have put a few thousand miles under my keel.
I did a yachtmasters course ashore in 1970 and only really learned details, but enjoyed it. Before then if I had seen lights on a vessel that I didn't recognise I would say "what the ****is that and treat with caution. Now I know why I should treat it with caution. I did a practical exam and passed. The only comment I got was "You don't have to do everything yourself, use your crew more"! ( That's what single handing does for you!)
There are in my opinion only two dangers.
1. The guy who thinks he knows everything because he has been in a boat since God was a boy.
2. The guy who knows everything because he has a piece of paper saying he is "certified"
The old story of the lunatic released from the asylum comes to mind. " I have a piece of paper saying I am sane. You don't".......!
You have entered the wonderful world of sailing and your attitude is excellent.
You will never stop learning if you continue to recognise your limitations and learn from the many mistakes you will make. Show me the man that never made a mistake, and I will show you a liar and a fool.......
Don't worry about feeling inadequate because you have not been taught to sail onto a mooring. Most of those around you can't do it very well under engine.
May you have many happy years sailing and welcome to the nuthouse! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Presumably this was the Practical test ? In which case did you do the Theory first, as you are supposed to ? Were you totally honest when you filled in the previous experience section of your application ? The entry criteria for the Day Skipper appears, to me, to imply that you should be reasonably competent at sailing a boat before taking the course.

I too was slightly apprehensive after qualifying as a Dazed Kipper. I' m still apprehensive whenever I go out, which I believe to be a good thing - it makes me think carefully about what I am doing. I fully expect to be apprehensive for some considerable time to come !
 
I enjoyed my D/S and felt I learnt a lot. The shore based testing was excellent and felt as if we wouldn't be passed if we weren't up to scratch. The practical was also useful but it was with a different skipper than the shore based bit who had a different style.

The practical guy was a week in week out racing skipper and was highly knowledgeable / experienced but it felt like he was going through the motions (always 'suggesting' staying in marina berths rather than having to pump up dinghy to get ashore). He would answer any question but wasn't a natural teacher. At the end I did feel it was a rubber stamp job.

ps i didn't think sailing up to a mooring was covered on the D/S. If the engine fails at the crucial moment we have to drop our hooks and pee our pants until the boys in the orange boat come to rescue us??? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I did my Day-skipper earlier this year with one objective in mind - to gain enough knowledge to begin to get first hand experience safely. I was lucky in being in a class of coastal skippers and so I feel I learned a lot more than perhaps otherwise would have and I also had the benefit of an excellent instructor. I then had a day of own boat tuition. The first step as skipper was still daunting but the amount I have learned in a short period of time actually doing it astounds me - almost as much as the amount I now know I have to learn. RYA Day Skipper Practical took me into the Conscious Incompetence area of the training cycle - an area I feel I will remain in for some time to come.
 
boatmike, I aspire to your level of experience, what wise words you have spoken.

On the issue of 'certs'. A friend of mine used to work in Thailand for a sail charter company with a very well known name. The instructor/examiners were told to pass everybody, a case of if they turn up give 'em a pass. The reasoning behind this was that the customer had paid a lot of money to be there, we dont want any disappointed customers. Some of my friends recounts of his 'students' are beyond belief!
 
Their are four levels of knowledge

Unconcious Incompetence - you don't know you're doing it wrong
Concious Incompetence - you know your wrong
Concious Competence - you can do it if you think about it
Unconcious Competence - don't even think about it.


You need to be somewhere in the last two really.
 
In a previous life I used to teach (part-time CC & DS theory+practical).
It happened quite a few times that I wanted to fail students as IMHO they were not up to it. Every time, apart from the one time when it was blatant, I was overruled by the chief instructor. "If we fail them now, they will not book any other courses with us". After the third time I wrote to the RYA - they sent me a letter acknowleding receipt - nothing heard since. (3 years ago).

I no longer teach.

RYA thingies (apart maybe from YM) are certificates of attendance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

Refueler
Darn it ...... bl***y engine wont start - want to lift out boat.
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
Refueler
Refueler

Share this page

Top