Moving new-to-me boat from Neyland to Portishead - advice wanted.

[kavinsky]

Morning experts.

I need to move my new-to-me boat from Neyland Marina to Portishead this week.

I learnt to sail in New Zealand, so my experience of tidal waters is non-existent, apart from a single, never to be repeated cook straight on someone else's boat.

The boat in question is a Catalan 8m, so catamaran, and drying out shouldn't be much of an issue, although, as new to me boat, I'd prefer setting the anchor in the daylight!

Sails are a complete unknown, although the boat and sailing gear are generally in good apparent condition, but I'm voyage planning as if I am going to be making the passage under engine 100% of the way, just to be safe.

Two outboards, making 5kts SOG (previous owner numbers) @ 3l/h (I'm assuming that the 3l/h is maximum fuel usage running both engines at the same time, most owners can get 5kts out of a central 9.9hp), and I'm taking ~100l of petrol with me.

I'd prefer to avoid night sailing if at all possible, since I'm not fully comfortable moving around on the boat yet.

My current plan is

Day 1 (Thursday) - leave Neyland halfway between high and low tide (~9:30am), use the ebbing tide to get out and around Linney Head, and then benefit from the rising tide in the channel to boost passage speed up to Lundy - anchor out or moor (if there's one available) for the rest of the evening / morning.
Day 2 (Friday) - Tenby -> Oxwich. Depart Tenby 10am, anchor in Oxwich when I get there, put up feet for rest of day. Also potentially considering pushing on to Swansea and taking a night in the Marina.
Day 3 (Saturday) - Oxwich / Swansea to Barry Port (ish), land in a marina, almost impossible to time the tides with this one, so beat against under power and tie up for the night
Day 4 (Sunday) - Barry Port -> Portishead, tide's are awful for this one, so just poke along on motor.

The tide timing would have been better had I left at the start of the week, but a semi-flooded hull from all the storms leaves that one out of the window.

I'm not up to doing a Lundy - Portishead single day trip yet, but am I being too cautious with the passage planning here? Should I be looking to get more distance under the keel in any one of the single days?

Any and all thoughts on the passage plan are greatly appreciated.

M

 

[LittleSister]

Maybe I'm misreading it, but your timetable seems to have missed out getting from Lundy to Tenby.

I would strongly recommend you do a few 'day sails' around Neyland before attempting the trip, to find out what works and what doesn't on your new boat and make any adjustments/repairs. Spend a few days doing that and perhaps delay the delivery trip until the tide times are more conducive.,

Doing it this time of year, with the very short days; strong winds; uncomfortable, potentially dangerously low temperatures is easily doubling the hazards. Seriously consider deferring the delivery until spring, and get to know the boat in the meantime.

I do not know the Bristol Channel well (but have motored the length of it and sea kayaked across it), but I can say that it is interesting but very challenging, and certainly not to be trifled with. It has very strong tides (and consequent difficult conditions in stronger winds) and a huge tidal range, depth etc. hazards and limited ports of refuge. All need careful consideration. I would be very, very wary about attempting it before knowing the boat better, and especially so if you are not familiar with sailing in tidal waters.

I don't know it well enough to want to advise on routing, except to say that with an untried boat you should probably give priority to staying in significant ports, so that you are more likely to be able to effect repairs/obtain parts to resolve issues, or even leave the boat to return later if need be (in which case public transport options, as well as safe berthing and access to facilities.

You don't say whether you will be single-handed or have a crew. I do a lot of single-handing but would strongly recommend that you have at least someone with you for this particular trip. Having someone who is aboard who is familiar with these waters, or at least with tidal sailing.

I haven't checked the weather for that area yet, but I have heard the Met Office saying there's a great deal of uncertainty about the upcoming weather t the moment.

The more I think about it, the more I think setting off on Thursday, or any time very soon, with so many things stacked against you is dangerous and unwise.

 

[kavinsky]

Sorry, I clearly wasn't that clear.

Lundy is about 40 miles south of my planned route. Going to Lundy and back up to Tenby would be . . . a long detour.

There's a challenge at my home club to sail to Lundy and back in 48 hours - my journey over the 4 days is about same as 70% the distance of the challenge.

Everything on the new boat works from my day sails on it. It's new to me, but it's not a boat I haven't sailed.

Even then, I'm planning as if it's going to be entirely under motor - and I've got 3 separate motors that are all capable of pushing the boat along (2 that'll definitely work against the tide, 1 that would get me to a harbour with the tide).

Ports of refuge on the Welsh coast are actually pretty good (non-existent on the English coast to be fair), and my boat will dry on just about anything, with no issues.

I'll be sailing single handed, and wind doesn't bother me, only the planning on stops (and if I'm really being to cautious when allowing for tidal help) - before I headed back to the UK, I circumnavigated New Zealand singlehanded - in summer / autumn to be fair, but I very much doubt there's much that the Bristol Channel can threaten that compares to the roaring 40's of the end of the South Island.

Leaving the boat in Neyland (6 hours away each way for me, I don't drive) until spring is not an option - not with two lots of Marina rates, and not with the slip being needed by Neyland.

That said, if the weather is truly against a motored trip 100 miles up the channel, then I'll redirect to Swansea marina, and at least be close enough to both my home and home marina to make the journey over a weekend.

 

[kavinsky]

Day 1 (Thursday) - leave Neyland halfway between high and low tide (~9:30am), use the ebbing tide to get out and around Linney Head, and then benefit from the rising tide in the channel to boost passage speed up to Lundy - anchor out or moor (if there's one available) for the rest of the evening / morning.

Ah, I've re-read my message.

I'm planning Neyland to Tenby, not Neyland to Lundy.

That would be silly.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I love Lundy and would take any chance to visit it and go to the Marisco Tavern, and perhaps on my next trip cross Irish sea I will, but its not needed for your route and I see you are not planning for it.

We used to do Neyland to Portishead/River Avon in 2 days in slow old Westerly making 10 hour passages, as one gets an extra 2 hours of lift compared with the route the other way (7 hour rise from Nash Passage with currents 2.5 to 4kts as against 5 hour fall) which we did in 2.5 days

One can push the tide to get from Neyland round St Gowans then push it a bit to get towards Tenby/Caldey Island then take the rise to Swanea/Mumbles or take a break in Oxwich. Swansea YC and Scuba Club very welcoming but mind you get out of Marina before river dries

From Swansea/Mumble push the falling tide towards East Nash Passage then rise to Portishead. Nash Passage is narrow and shallow but well marked by East Nash Buoy and we have gone through in F7 and rolly and still had plenty of water under us - chart plotter and echo are your man there. (or you can go outside the grounds) Nowhere really to stop after Swansea unless one fancies drying muddy Barry Harbour but take care you anchor in deep channel or you will not lift early enough for next bit. and as you can only get on or off boat at high tide its charms are few. We used to tie up alongside pilot wall but gate locked as anti immigration or just officiousness. You could dry out on Barry old harbour instead outside the mole but any freshness in SW makes getting off a nighmare

From St Gowans to Portishead you should have fair SW wind, but one must be prepared to motor.

We also did Dale to Ilfracombe in 10 hours - waiting to rise into harbour at half tide, slept then left at half fall, to push tide a bit and rise up to Portishead. I can reccomend the Ship & Pilot or the Pierhead.

I miss the Bristol Channeel but by heck the plentiful South Cornish Harbours passage easier or shorter

 

[LittleSister]

Sails are a complete unknown, although the boat and sailing gear are generally in good apparent condition . . .

Everything on the new boat works from my day sails on it. It's new to me, but it's not a boat I haven't sailed.

????

 

[MoodySabre]

You won't do 5 knots against the tides in the Bristol Channel. with 3 knots of tide you will do a nice 7 knots with the tide and 2 knots against (perhaps less if the is any sea state). Wait for tides to take you on each stage.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Indeed only push against the first hour and a half of any adverse tide. I have been stationary doing 5kts on two occasions having got course or BST/UTC timing wrong. Its not only the Alderney race that can catch you out. But it is often worth pushing against the first hour if you are making long passages in the BC, and there are few short ones.

30 miles to Tenby, 50 to Oxwich, 60 to Swansea Bay. With 1.5 to 2kts with you its not so bad but Tenby or nearby Saudersfoot nice if you want to break journey. Oxwich offers long row to dubious hotel - a niche delight though sand dunes splendid and more useful in going down long ie west

 

[mattonthesea]

Let us know how you get on; assuming you have set off today

 

[Snoopy463]

Don’t think he’ll be going anywhere today in a stiff north easterly at 3C max and -3C overnight. I certainly wouldn’t.

 

[Spanjaard]

By the end of September in 2022, after one year of upgrades at Dale Sailing boatyard, I left Neyland with my 28" boat heading to Padstow, on a night passage.

It was my first time sailing on her...

At 18:00, 10 miles from Dale I broke the spinnaker pole.

In the morning at around 9am and due to the heavy swelling my tiller snapped and I had to make a May-Day within 3 miles of Bideford...

The coast guard escorted me all the way up to Ilfracombe as I managed to get some steering …

At Ilfracombe I stayed a few days to repair the the tiller and some bits and bobs. Very nice harbour, nice people and helpful harbour master.

And from there to Padstow, St. Ives, Falmouth, Plymouth, Exmouth, Newhaven, Ramsgate and finally the Crouch with no further maydays.

Would I do it again?

I don't know. I had great fun. But if I could go back, I think it would be wiser to spend a few days making myself familiar to the boat by sailing around Milford Haven.

 

[MoodySabre]

And what happened to @kavinsky ?

 

[IanCC]

Morning experts.

I need to move my new-to-me boat from Neyland Marina to Portishead this week.

I learnt to sail in New Zealand, so my experience of tidal waters is non-existent, apart from a single, never to be repeated cook straight on someone else's boat.

The boat in question is a Catalan 8m, so catamaran, and drying out shouldn't be much of an issue, although, as new to me boat, I'd prefer setting the anchor in the daylight!

Sails are a complete unknown, although the boat and sailing gear are generally in good apparent condition, but I'm voyage planning as if I am going to be making the passage under engine 100% of the way, just to be safe.

Two outboards, making 5kts SOG (previous owner numbers) @ 3l/h (I'm assuming that the 3l/h is maximum fuel usage running both engines at the same time, most owners can get 5kts out of a central 9.9hp), and I'm taking ~100l of petrol with me.

I'd prefer to avoid night sailing if at all possible, since I'm not fully comfortable moving around on the boat yet.

My current plan is

Day 1 (Thursday) - leave Neyland halfway between high and low tide (~9:30am), use the ebbing tide to get out and around Linney Head, and then benefit from the rising tide in the channel to boost passage speed up to Lundy - anchor out or moor (if there's one available) for the rest of the evening / morning.
Day 2 (Friday) - Tenby -> Oxwich. Depart Tenby 10am, anchor in Oxwich when I get there, put up feet for rest of day. Also potentially considering pushing on to Swansea and taking a night in the Marina.
Day 3 (Saturday) - Oxwich / Swansea to Barry Port (ish), land in a marina, almost impossible to time the tides with this one, so beat against under power and tie up for the night
Day 4 (Sunday) - Barry Port -> Portishead, tide's are awful for this one, so just poke along on motor.

The tide timing would have been better had I left at the start of the week, but a semi-flooded hull from all the storms leaves that one out of the window.

I'm not up to doing a Lundy - Portishead single day trip yet, but am I being too cautious with the passage planning here? Should I be looking to get more distance under the keel in any one of the single days?

Any and all thoughts on the passage plan are greatly appreciated.

M

I once did neyland to Swansea in a oner single handed. Wasn't a problem except the motor conking off mumbles. Also, i am sure you know, remember the seemingly always active tank range off st govans.

 

[Tranona]

Would I do it again?

I don't know. I had great fun. But if I could go back, I think it would be wiser to spend a few days making myself familiar to the boat by sailing around Milford Haven.

Wise words. I also bought my boat in Neyland - a year earlier than you in November 2021. Although the survey was good and everything seemed to "work" the surveyor persuaded me to have her trucked to Poole rather than leave for a winter in Wales and sail back the next spring. Good call, given all the hidden nasties (even though not serious) I found as I worked through the boat.

 

[Spanjaard]

And what happened to @kavinsky ?

He must be alright.

No news = good news

 

[Spanjaard]

Wise words. I also bought my boat in Neyland - a year earlier than you in November 2021. Although the survey was good and everything seemed to "work" the surveyor persuaded me to have her trucked to Poole rather than leave for a winter in Wales and sail back the next spring. Good call, given all the hidden nasties (even though not serious) I found as I worked through the boat.

There is always hidden nasties.

My problem was electrics. I lost connection to the chart plotter as I was entering the Camel at sunset.

Thanks to God I had the pilotage plan prepared in paper. But it was a challenge.