sailorman
Well-known member
Mirabella 5 motors between charter areas as the engine is cheaper than the sails to replace
Motor cheaper than sail.. ?
- Thread starter Sybarite
- Start date
Sybarite
Well-known member
His is a relatively low powered cat for the size: 2 X 370 hp which allow him to do 16 knots if necessary. However at this speed the waves become hard and much less comfortable than at his preferred cruising speed of 10 knots.
According to the article I read, he was cruising in the Magellan Straights before moving on to the Pacific. So his trip is all about destination in great comfort. The cabins are at deck level and the hulls appear to be used for storage and technical items.
According to the article I read, he was cruising in the Magellan Straights before moving on to the Pacific. So his trip is all about destination in great comfort. The cabins are at deck level and the hulls appear to be used for storage and technical items.
AndieMac
Well-known member
"I must admit to comparing boats with cars"
Yachts = Old Volvos (Elderly driver, with hat, short sighted and intolerent of other road users)
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Yachts = Old Volvos (Elderly driver, with hat, short sighted and intolerent of other road users)
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Lakesailor
New member
[ QUOTE ]
Elderly driver, with hat, short sighted and intolerent of other road users
[/ QUOTE ]I think intolerant should have read "oblivious".
Elderly driver, with hat, short sighted and intolerent of other road users
[/ QUOTE ]I think intolerant should have read "oblivious".
colingr
Active member
Does that mean
Dinghy - cyclist, ignores all the rules but expected everyone else to give way to them.
Can't think of any other raggie analogies but I'm sure other will fill the gaps fro MABs and AWB and racers.
Dinghy - cyclist, ignores all the rules but expected everyone else to give way to them.
Can't think of any other raggie analogies but I'm sure other will fill the gaps fro MABs and AWB and racers.
ironmaiden
Active member
i'll have you know I drive a volvo estate and have done for many years... I'm young, drop dead gorgeous,witty, and very blonde.....and if I catch any of you driving in my middle lane on the motorway your for it.
regards rachel /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
regards rachel /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
gjgm
Active member
As against that sailing is also about aquiring and using skills, but you can use the skills to wander far and wide if you wish. The skills are a bit more absorbing that simply operating the electronic throittle
*******
I think there is a bit more to mobos than a throttle, and it seems a bit condescending to suggest saily types need skills and mobos do not.
Its not a rare sight in the Solent, for example,to see sail boat with sails up, engine running,plotter visualising everything, and the skipper chatting on a mobile;maybe its multi tasking skills you refer too /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
*******
I think there is a bit more to mobos than a throttle, and it seems a bit condescending to suggest saily types need skills and mobos do not.
Its not a rare sight in the Solent, for example,to see sail boat with sails up, engine running,plotter visualising everything, and the skipper chatting on a mobile;maybe its multi tasking skills you refer too /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
doug748
Well-known member
I suspect Mr Bourgnon is probably wrong, but with his cash doubt this will upset him much.
I can well believe that big cats tend to be under sailed. From my limited experience it is just too tempting to have 12 kts to windward instantly available.
Far better to stick to an old tub that actually slows down when you start to motor.
I can well believe that big cats tend to be under sailed. From my limited experience it is just too tempting to have 12 kts to windward instantly available.
Far better to stick to an old tub that actually slows down when you start to motor.
ytd
New member
I wonder about the initial assumption that power cats are cheaper than sailing cats. The ones I've looked at have been more expensive, albeit much smaller than 70'. And for monohulls the difference is much bigger. A 40' mobo is about twice the price of 40' (cruising) sailboat but they do have much more accommodation.
Sybarite
Well-known member
Another source : same conclusion.
I've just read 3 articles, each independant of the others, where the conclusion was the same. Here is an example : Steve Dashew well known for his Sundeer and Beowoulf sailing boats.
" We have just topped off Wind Horse's (NB 83' slim motor yacht) fuel tanks in Ireland, and have been recapping our consumption and costs for the 2008 cruising season. With all the headlines about US$150 per barrel crude, if you are like us, you would expect this to have been an expensive summer.
Total fuel consumed for propulsion, electric needs underway and at anchor, heating, and hydraulics has been 7831 US gallons/29,641 liters.
Over the past five months this has been used as follows:
1061.5 engine hours (roughly 11,100 nautical miles).
188 generator hours at anchor (about 131 US gallons).
367 US gallons for heating the interior and domestic water.
Fuel burn underway comes in at 6.9 gallons/26 liters per hour of which 0.7 gallons/2.64 liters is used to generate hydraulic and electric power. Most of the trip was run at 11 knots with only a brief period of short hops in Canada spent at a more efficient 10-knot speed. About a third of the miles were uphill, another third with a push downwind, and the rest with winds light or abeam.
All passages were run at maximum gross weight (replacing fuel burned with fresh water), except for the trip to Panama where we allowed the boat to cruise light as seas were calm or behind us.
Fuel consumption is in line with what we have come to expect.
The big surprise was in the cost of fuel, averaged over a variety of sources. Mexico was very reasonable, Panama the same as the US, Canada (gasp) really expensive, Greenland somewhat less than the US, and Ireland maybe half of what we have been told to expect in the UK and Continental Europe. Average cost for the summer? US$3.35 per gallon, or Euro 0.632/liter.
Part of the reason for the low costs is large fuel tanks, which allow us the range and flexibility to pick the lowest cost sources.
The total cost for the 11,000 miles is substantial, and hurts for sure when the credit card bill comes due. But we have a rationalization to make us feel better. On a per-mile basis this works out to US$2.21 per nautical mile. Allowances for engine and transmission maintenance and eventual rebuild add about 20 cents (US$), bringing the total to $2.41 per nautical mile. Beowulf, our 78-foot ketch cost $3.09 per mile and this was averaged on costs between 1995 and 2003, before the recent bout of inflation.
Painful as buying fuel may be, it is still less costly than cruising under sail."
I've just read 3 articles, each independant of the others, where the conclusion was the same. Here is an example : Steve Dashew well known for his Sundeer and Beowoulf sailing boats.
" We have just topped off Wind Horse's (NB 83' slim motor yacht) fuel tanks in Ireland, and have been recapping our consumption and costs for the 2008 cruising season. With all the headlines about US$150 per barrel crude, if you are like us, you would expect this to have been an expensive summer.
Total fuel consumed for propulsion, electric needs underway and at anchor, heating, and hydraulics has been 7831 US gallons/29,641 liters.
Over the past five months this has been used as follows:
1061.5 engine hours (roughly 11,100 nautical miles).
188 generator hours at anchor (about 131 US gallons).
367 US gallons for heating the interior and domestic water.
Fuel burn underway comes in at 6.9 gallons/26 liters per hour of which 0.7 gallons/2.64 liters is used to generate hydraulic and electric power. Most of the trip was run at 11 knots with only a brief period of short hops in Canada spent at a more efficient 10-knot speed. About a third of the miles were uphill, another third with a push downwind, and the rest with winds light or abeam.
All passages were run at maximum gross weight (replacing fuel burned with fresh water), except for the trip to Panama where we allowed the boat to cruise light as seas were calm or behind us.
Fuel consumption is in line with what we have come to expect.
The big surprise was in the cost of fuel, averaged over a variety of sources. Mexico was very reasonable, Panama the same as the US, Canada (gasp) really expensive, Greenland somewhat less than the US, and Ireland maybe half of what we have been told to expect in the UK and Continental Europe. Average cost for the summer? US$3.35 per gallon, or Euro 0.632/liter.
Part of the reason for the low costs is large fuel tanks, which allow us the range and flexibility to pick the lowest cost sources.
The total cost for the 11,000 miles is substantial, and hurts for sure when the credit card bill comes due. But we have a rationalization to make us feel better. On a per-mile basis this works out to US$2.21 per nautical mile. Allowances for engine and transmission maintenance and eventual rebuild add about 20 cents (US$), bringing the total to $2.41 per nautical mile. Beowulf, our 78-foot ketch cost $3.09 per mile and this was averaged on costs between 1995 and 2003, before the recent bout of inflation.
Painful as buying fuel may be, it is still less costly than cruising under sail."
Lee_Shaw
New member
Re: Another source : same conclusion.
I can't help feeling that there is a flaw in these calculations such as to render them meaningless.
My average spend on cheese between 1982 and 2008 worked out at £0.02 per day, the cost of new tyres and an MOT for my Datsun cherry last year worked out at £0.01 per day. I proclaim that ancient Japanese hatchbacks are better, financially, than cheese eating.
I can't help feeling that there is a flaw in these calculations such as to render them meaningless.
My average spend on cheese between 1982 and 2008 worked out at £0.02 per day, the cost of new tyres and an MOT for my Datsun cherry last year worked out at £0.01 per day. I proclaim that ancient Japanese hatchbacks are better, financially, than cheese eating.
Kilter
New member
Re: Another source : same conclusion.
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Searush
New member
Re: Another source : same conclusion.
Is this because all these boats run fridges, microwaves, water makers, radar, etc etc and need generators running if sailing?
I don't see Shane Acton using much fuel - nowhere to put it even if he wanted to!
Is this because all these boats run fridges, microwaves, water makers, radar, etc etc and need generators running if sailing?
I don't see Shane Acton using much fuel - nowhere to put it even if he wanted to!
Phoenix of Hamble
Active member
Re: Another source : same conclusion.
Thats my thought too....
we use bugger all fuel...... can't see the argument holding any water as far as I am concerned...
Thats my thought too....
we use bugger all fuel...... can't see the argument holding any water as far as I am concerned...
DaveS
Well-known member
Re: Another source : same conclusion.
"29641 litres for the 2008 cruising season..."
Now my main tank holds 50 litres, so I calculate the above as almost 593 fills of my tank. Averaged over varying conditions, and given that I seem to motor for about 1/3 to 1/2 of my cruising time, I go through about 100 l, i.e 2 tank fills per year. At my current consumption rate it would take me 296 years to use what is deemed reasonable for this mobo to use in a season.
Motoring's cheaper than sailing? Aye, right. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
"29641 litres for the 2008 cruising season..."
Now my main tank holds 50 litres, so I calculate the above as almost 593 fills of my tank. Averaged over varying conditions, and given that I seem to motor for about 1/3 to 1/2 of my cruising time, I go through about 100 l, i.e 2 tank fills per year. At my current consumption rate it would take me 296 years to use what is deemed reasonable for this mobo to use in a season.
Motoring's cheaper than sailing? Aye, right. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif