Motor boats vs yachts

[david_e]

Re: Ad Lib...

I think that this is a good example of the kind of action/behaviour which creates the most antagonism. There is no general solution to the generation of wake but there is one to behaviour.

 

[leshark]

Re: Some thoughts

I heartily agree, govenment involvement is a seriously bad thing, I recently visited Windermere, in speaking to a great deal of locals, no one want the speed ban on windermere, what sence can it be?

Back on the case of Motor boats vs yachts, are these not the wepons?(so to speak). I do both (when I have enough time/money) yes, most of the problems seem to be caused by motorboats, and more recently PCW's but this is because of their accesability. Enforcing any sort of rules of regulations will not solve the problem, after all do speed cameras stop speeding, no. Do horific car accident adverts stop drunken drivers. If we get to the bottom of this, the majority of problem are caused by a small minority whom will ignore regulations any way.

Forget Motor boats vs yachts, its considerate people vs inconsiderate people, the vehicle they control (or not) is just the means. People who put up these barriers between different types of boat are clearly snobs who think that they are better and have more rights. How sad they are.

 

[roger]

Many thanks to all who took part in this thread.
A few points to clear up:-
1. Quite correct fuel is not subsidised I was wrong to say so. I still dont think we can justify (only country in EU) selling fuel at untaxed prices for use quite so wastefully.
2. I have no very exact fuel consumption figs for MBs they seem to be classified. I do have three bits anecdotal evidence:-
a. BBC prog on previous Southampton Boat Show 35' Motor boat goes Boat Show to St.Vaast and back good programme incidentally - visits to the Fuschias, M.Gosselein and so on) Fuel consumption 180 gals distance taken from chart 180 miles. No indication of any other destination.
b. An acquaintance of mine delivering big 58 ft MB in USA reported 2 gals/mile consumption - of course these were US gallons.
c. meeting in Treguier a 30+ ft MB crewman reported having to fill up in Guernsey with 400 litres after crossing from UK
d. With engines for reaonable size MB aggergating 960 HP one would expect a considerable thirst.
3. All Plastic boats are made effectively from oil but a 1mpg boat burns a ton of fuel every 250 miles or so. After 1-2000 miles it's burnt its weight of fuel more or less. No Rag and stick merchant could boast of that.

 

[ccscott49]

Just one point, duty paid fuel in spain is only 46p a litre, how much is duty paid fuel here? 85p? Plus of course diesel for boats is not subsidised, it is duty free, a considerable difference! I would not mind paying for diesel at spanish rates and in fact do!!

 

[tcm]

Re: green yachting?

Roger , I see your point, but you have positioned yourself as a sailing yacht as a paragon of green economics. Using, the wind what could be more lovely and less harmful?

But there's no earthly reason for using the worlds resources in this way, and making large numbers of pleasure yachts is an utter waste. In viareggio, I saw yachts of over 80metres in build, complete with large engines, which i can't really think are as green as you would like.

The awkward part of your musings are that you find it okay if people pay more tax. Like congestion charging and raising the price of cigarettes by a few pence each year, surely this lends the lie to the argument that it's "wrong". We don't charge burglars or muderers a bit more tax, we deter tham as effeciently as possible.

From the green point of view, the planet would be in better shape if all pleasure boats were banned, whether power of sail. Your argument is that the limit is, well, about like your boat - a sailing boat that isn't too big or flash or fast.

Of course, I can't talk, and use loads of fuel, perhaps 2-4g/mile. I do pay french/spanish taxes on the fuel, but I don't see how this improves matters at all. It seems from your text that it may make you feel better, and to this end I can confirm that I pay lots of tax and VAT. But the UK position regarding manufacturing is poor, this being a high wage country, to pay all the taxes. So I bought an Italian boat with German engines and paid slightly-lower french VAT on the boat. Damn, eh?

 

[PhilipStapleton]

For many of us, sailing is a quiet, peaceful activity. We use the engine when we must, but we'd prefer not to. We use muscle power rather than electricity. We'd rather go to a quiet pub than the marina disco. At sea we're intimately aware of the forces of nature, feeling the wind and adjusting our sleep patterns to fit with the tide, and yes, happily getting soaked when nature dictates.
OK - that's OTT, but compare that with sitting in a warm, dry, comfortable seat, able to go where you want when you want, disconnected from the elements – and not even spilling the G&T (as two contributors to the thread have pointed out). My parent's generation went out for Sunday afternoon trips in the car with a thermos on the roadside - motorboating seems much the same to me.
I get cross when I'm walking in the country and a trial bike comes past. pushes me off the path, taints the air and disturbs the peace. I get cross at sea when a motorboat or PWC comes past - making noise, fumes and churning the water. I get even crosser when I'm in a quiet anchorage and a powerboat decides to run his engines to charge his batteries and hold a loud party till 2am when I’m leaving at 4am.
I fell pretty much in control in my life ashore - we humans have shaped our world so we're in charge (or so we think). Going to sea puts me, as much as I dare, in an environment where I'm not in control, where the forces of nature have to be respected. OK, I float around sheltered waters in a lump of high-tech plastic, but it’s as simple and as “natural;” as I can get given all the other constraints on me. It's a quieter, slower place, and I need that.
So where does that leave the discussion? I and the powerboat skipper in the next berth are using the same bit of water for different reasons. I don't understand his, and he doesn't understand mine - and probably we never will. He is in a floating home extension, I'm in an alien environment. He should go to Cherbourg and leave St Vaast to me!

 

[WarrenT]

We appear to have two seperate arguments in one and they serve to confuse and divide the feelings ;

Adherence to the law [ Col Regs, etc ]
[ii] Personal Zen

With regard to point , In that country of leading liberalism, the Netherlands, they have taken the step of removing signeage from certain road junctions in order to reduce accidents. Motorists now have to engage in eye contact and make an "exchange" with the other driver in order to effect safe passage and it has been shown to work. Excluding commercial traffic/shipping lane laws, if you felt that there was a reasonable chance that you would be sunk if you didn't "work it out" with the other skipper would you proceed with far more caution ? After all, we navigate down busy pedestrian areas without arguments and if we do end up in the " I step left, You step left" dance, it normally ends with a smile and a "after you" gesture, even if you are in a hurry [ except in London where EVERYBODY is SOOO stressed out ].

With regard to point [ii] a yachtie uses THE PASSAGE as the goal and a boater uses THE DESTINATION as the goal. The mechanism by which we acheive our zen is manifest by what we buy and how we use it. Compress the expectations of many to fulfill their needs into a small space and you will develop conflict. How many of these Yacht/Boat encounters happen 10+ miles offshore or even 5 ... a few perhaps. As a recent car commercial tag line says " You should get out more " and the more of us that do that means less concentration, means less tension, means happier floaters.

Arguments on a postcard , please !


" You're not going to make it tippy like before ? "

 

[ianwright]

Last week in Limehouse Basin...

,,, us, three old men in individual Vertues, were chatting, drinking and watching the considerable skills of the narrowboaters as the sun went down.
In the next berth a large(ish) motor cruiser populated by two couples in their thirties drowned the noise of their own conversation by running their twin diesels at half throttle or faster, out of gear for about half an hour,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There was much silent relief when they turned them off, and a loud protest when they turnd them on again... along the lines of "Good grief man, will you keep the noise down?!"
Response was "What noise? Are you serious? This is a Marina, people come here to run their engines.".
Anyone else find that odd?

IanW.

IanW


Vertue 203, Patience

 

[Col]

Re: Last week in Limehouse Basin...

Being a stinkie myself, I have never understood why some motorboaters do that.
It annoys the hell out of me too.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/colspics> Cols Picture Album</A>

 

[milltech]

Re: Last week in Limehouse Basin...

I thought it was bad practice to run engines unloaded anyway. Sabre advised on my Spearfish many years ago to leave the dock immediately after starting, but whether this was for the benefit of the engines, or the fact that blue smoke in considerable quantities emerged until they went under load, I cannot say.

I have been both under power and sail and have never understood the antagonism from either. I certainly don't share it. I have Windsurfed, sailed, motor sailed, and motored and find them all good in their own way.

John

 

[owendov17]

Re: Last week in Limehouse Basin...

I was one of the "old" men and no, it seems that the normal attitude seems to be if it suites me it must be ok. Sad but there you go!!

Ian glad you got back OK.

 

[ianwright]

Re: Last week in Limehouse Basin...

Hi Mike.
Any sailing since that trip? I'm on domestic duties for a while.

IanW.
V203 Patience.

Vertue 203, Patience