Moody v Bavaria

Okay, I'll bite...

I own a '99 Bavaria 31.. probably worth now in the current clime around 38-40k....

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Boat is CE cat A, built under Germanschier Lloyds certification, I dont see no veneer on ours.... Sails very well, if not a bit tippy, as she is quite narrow in the beam, but will outsail a Moody 31 any day of the year!

Easy to sail, reliable electrics, fairly simple build, nothing fancy, but all the bits are good quality, (Better I think than the current boat....)

We looked at the Older moodies, etc, and came to the conclusion that the Bavaria was tidier, more suitaed to swimbo, and would be more reliable....

In four years of ownership we still have our keel, and the only bit that has been replaced is the Fridge compressor....

The only reason I would change is for something bigger, In comparison to all of the other production boats I have sailed on, she is as good if not better screwed together and finished.

The current boats are a lot different, and I would say that the 31 that was built a couple of years ago, is not comparable.

Have fun! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
They are so different that afaik you have answered the question already.
Now, in terms of some genuine owner/experience feedback..
Do please, once you have bought the newest vessel let us know in a couple of years how you sit with that decision.
For what it is worth I am 'not' a fan of either marques..( I like skinny boats that are of low freeboard and sail like goosed up witches)
 
If you want convincing, wait until April when you can get a flight to Corfu by Easyjet for less than £100 return and have a look at my 2001 Bav 37 which did 7 years as a charter boat.

Not easy to compare with a Moody of similar age because they are in a diferent league pricewise £90k against £55k. Just as in new boats where the same comparison is made - difficult to justify the difference on price grounds.

As to all the rubbish talked about quality in the sense of fitness for purpose its just that - rubbish. Keels don't fall off, rigs don't fail interiors don't fall apart. It is just very simply and strongly built. Everything is accessible and easy to work on. The only things that go wrong are the same pieces that go wrong on any boat - mainly electrical equipment such as fridges, pumps etc which are all the same makes as others.

Direct comparisons with a Moody 31 are not easy as there is little from Bavaria in that price range, but I would prefer a 10 year AWB to a 25 year old potential MAB any day of the week. And you don't have to buy Bavaria, a Beneteau or Jeanneau will do just as well.
 
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The only things that go wrong are the same pieces that go wrong on any boat - mainly electrical equipment

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Now I'm sure I've told you before not to exaggerate!!

We really need to tell these people the truth.

My boat is coming up to 8 years old and the rubber flap on the transom that covers the hot shower head fell off last year!!!

£4.99 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Um.

Well.

Oh.

That's it.

Oh, hang on, I had trouble getting the loo to flush at the beginning of last season and the Ebersplutter was smelly.... um......


er ......................



/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Well, running the fridge almost continuously, getting through 3-400 litres of water a week, operating the shower pumpout daily, using the windlass twice a day and turning on the cabin lights every night for 20 weeks a year for 7 years does take its toll. And it still all works! On the other hand 2500 hours and changing the oil regularly suits the engine. Can't tell the difference from new.

Cabin lights are a bit rubbish but I am gradually replacing them. And the cooker is not the best, but again still working. And the stanchion bases on my model are a bit naff, but a bit of TLC from a good SS man fixed that.

Trouble is people don't want to hear this sort of thing because it offends their prejudices! But 3000 buyers a year can't all be wrong.
 
"Old" (ie >12years) bavarias are a very different thing from more recent ones. Well built, fairly quick and few vices - they go better than Moodys, if having slightly less stowage and usually have slightly better quality components.

The Moody, as you've discovered, holds its price well and the early Bavarias are condemned for the perceived failings of the later versions, built down to a price as a weekend cottage for the marina.

If you get one with the Lloyds build certificate you'll be buying the real thing.
Recently Lloyds threw up their hands and announced they'll no longer be certificating bavarias. In fairness the reason given is that EU standards undercut Lloyds and there are more than enough quality criteria out there.
 
I could pour petrol on the fire and say that I looked at a Moody and then went and bought a Nauticat!

rob

ps - please don't take that too seriously!
 
never fail to be surprised how partisan people are.

I can understand where you are coming from. All other things being equal, you would be daft to chose a 20 year old boat over a new one, and even dafter to chose a 40 year old long keel narrow gutted boat that no doubt someone will soon be recommending.

But not all things are equal. The issue that would concern me would be sailing performance. It wont be brilliant in the M31 (its a cruiser not a racer) but the Bav will be poor by comparison with not much ballast and tender as h*ll. The detail finish will not be as good either though it wont be worn. The question is, how will it wear?

And the final issue is depreciation. The price of the Moody tells you something about how much of the original capital cost you will get back when you sell it. Bavs are very cheap to buy second hand. Once had a broker friend seriously argue that the cheapest boat to own was an HR cos it didnt depreciate.
 
Spot on Silver_fox....

Anyone who claims that a particular boat is the best option is misguided.... everyone has their own requirements, likes, dislikes and needs.

We had a budget for our current boat that could have bought us a wide range of different marques..... we chose a Beneteau, as it suited OUR needs... others would disagree with our choice, but it makes us happy, and we are very comfortable with the decision we made.

Only the boat owners themselves can decide what is the right boat...
 
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The issue that would concern me would be sailing performance. It wont be brilliant in the M31 (its a cruiser not a racer) but the Bav will be poor by comparison with not much ballast and tender as h*ll.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah yes of course ... mustn't forget that one.

I CLEARLY remember our 2006 South Brittany cruise where most days served up very strong winds.

You really wouldn't believe it you know.

All the marinas had dedicated corners for the Bens/Jens and Bavs where we could stay for FREE! Honestly. It's true. You can repeat it to loads of people as a FACT.

On the other hand, and this was REALLY frustrating, EVERY morning EVERY OTHER MAKE OF BOAT charged out of the harbours into the force sevens, and every evening in would come similar boats with wind-swept smiling crews wondering what the fuss was all about. Honest, that's true as well.

Oh and 'partisan'.

As in '' an adherent or supporter of a person, group, party, or cause, esp. a person who shows a biased, emotional allegiance''

Um.

Biased? Me???

I could of course bore you with tales of my VERY well known MAB which at 13 years old had very little gelcoat left on the corners of the cockpit, decks that needed injecting with resin and really attractive 'droop-effect' headlining, but that would be factual. From experience. Probably not welcome on these occasional posts.
 
Depreciation. Suggest you look at how much it cost in REAL TERMS 25 years ago compared with its current value. They don't fall in value now because they have reached the bottom. And compare with a new mass produced 31 footer they are less than 50% of the cost and with a new "old" boat of the same size like a Hunter 32 about 35%. That is the real measure in loss in value.

Before you comment on performance suggest you try one. If Bav 34 is not in a cynical mood he will tell you about what he really does with his boat, and you might even persuade him to take you for a sail! You might even discover you like it, just as I liked oysters that I did not like before I tried them (molluscs that is) If your assumption about sailing performance being a function of ballast is correct guess you are at odds with just about all designers of modern boats! If they don't sail why are they so popular (along with Beneteau and Jeanneau) as Sailing School boats?

As to wear, look at my post above. And my boat is not out of the ordinary.
 
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If they don't sail why are they so popular (along with Beneteau and Jeanneau) as Sailing School boats?



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Becuse they're cheap and the accomodation means you can get more punters in. That's the reality of sailing school sailing.

I was with you (and pretty much agree with you) until you said that!
 
A good synopsis of the problem of trying to compare two different boats from different two generations. Much as I would love to give Steve a race in his B34, I suspect he would win, the extra length and deep fin keel against our shorter water line, b/ks and in mast reefing should give him the edge, especially now he has been given the secret to antifouling in Pompey harbour. I also have to concede the Bav34 handled beautifully under power around the marina even though I was completely unfamiliar with it and it was someone else’s very new and shinny pride and joy.
Why then buy the Moody? Well superbly presented by Premier, with the previous owner on board and able to answer all queries. SWMBO impressed by clean tidy and well laid out interior, me by an excellent survey, Lloyds Certificate which seems to be standard for the M31 and lots of extras which we would have had to buy.
A year in we love our M31, so do the teenage kids, the dog and our parents, so much for quiet weekends alone with the Mrs /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif A fortnight around the CIs this year showed she is big enough for the family whilst harbour masters had no difficulty in finding us a berth although this would also apply to the Bav.
Finally she is surprisingly quick despite the 1 tonne of stuff we seem to need on board and will handle a bit of a blow well as we found out this summer with a nasty night time channel crossing. She never felt anything but safe and secure. For us she is exactly what we wanted.

Where are you thinking of keeping her btw? We opted for b/ks because I want to be able to dry out and did one night in Bembridge. Our YC has a scrubbing grid which will also help keep costs down next year. A week ashore is costing us £400 on the south coast with the lift etc /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

If your not sure, how about chartering each for a couple of days. A £500 - £600 investment in a couple of weekend charters against a £35k purchase to ensure you get the right boat for you could be a good investment. There are some very nice examples of both out there, enjoy the search.

Pete
 
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given the secret to antifouling in Pompey harbour.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do know that if it doesn't work you owe me 50 quid ? /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Was waiting for that one to come up. Pre about 1997 Bavarias were indeed "old style" boats, but their value is not necessarily influenced by the perceived value of newer boats.

This older is better just does not wash. You just have to read these fora regularly to see who has the most problems with their boats, and it is not just age. Mostly it is bad design and poor manufacture. Headlinings, keels coming loose, osmosis, skegs breaking, chain plates leaking causing corrosion - just a few of the regular topics that come related to "proper" boats. And remember these boats were mostly built in penny numbers. The longest run, the Centaur was 2500 - less boats than Bavaria produce in a year!

Of course newer is not always better. My 2001 boat (with a Lloyds certificate) has the old style interior in the new style factory made (built, tested and on its way to the med in less than 2 weeks) hull. I prefer this to the later style interiors, but I also admire the build and engineering improvements of later boats. And I use engineering deliberately because in my view one of the biggest downsides to many "proper" boats is the lack of engineering made up by making everything bigger and heavier but not always better. This is not a criticism just reflected the knowledge about materials and design at the time.
 
There are a lot of misconceptions about Bavaria Yachts about build the fact that it is real wood, if they sail ok, do the keels fall off. Let me offer you as the Main Bavaria Distributer for the UK a chance to prove for yourself the quality of a well priced boat and come and have a test sail with us free of charge. You have nothing to loose and I think you are going to be pretty surprised as most people are. Yours Ian Brockwell - ibrockwell@clippermarine.co.uk
 
Yes, but they also go out in weather all year round where the average yottie would stay at home. Depends I suppose on your definition of "sailing". Judging from your posts that I read, your definition is very different from mine and I guess many people who are learning to sail - not getting at you, just illustrating that we all have our different priorities.

The fact that one boat can fulfil so many different roles from country cottage to ocean wanderer (as many have done) says something.

And we have yet to have a post that says "I bought a Bav and hated every minute - had to get rid of it" or anything remotely like that.
 
Yes Ken

Absolutely Ken

You're so right to ask Ken.

It's all you ever see in The Solent ... people clinging on for dear life .... boats on their sides .... must be positively dangerous for you with so many out of control boats around.

Oh no. I must be confused. As per my prevoious post, we don't go out in windy conditions do we?

Sorry.
 
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