pvb
Well-known member
I'm buying a new boat. Why do you think I should set aside any money for rectification? What is warranty for?
Moody 376 vs bavaria 37
- Thread starter gasdave
- Start date
I'm buying a new boat. Why do you think I should set aside any money for rectification? What is warranty for?
gasdave
Member
Tranona, your detective work is accurate. My estimate would be that for around £10-15K one could have a decent boat in that Moody (new standing and running rigging, new sails, new batteries (and perhaps some other electrics), blast and epoxy the hull since she's been out and dried for a while (and consider copper bottom while at it). Other work would be minor and DIY, done over time.
GrahamM376, your £20K spent over 10 years helps put this in perspective too. That would equate to a lot of the current price differential and the boat is still 20 years older. I am sure you now have a good condition quality boat but that is a significant sum which is unlikely to be valuable to anyone other than you when it comes to replace. I'm not suggesting a Bavaria will not require money spent on it over time - they all do - but in this case perhaps not so much in my time.
But therein is the issue - time. All of the above would mean no sailing use this year but hopefully a well fettled boat next year. We have very limited and precious time due to family and work and spending too much not sailing is probably missing the point of having the boat in the first place. My personal preference is for an older "solid" looking yacht, with lots of lovely wood interior and a bit of romanticism but that does come with a heavier time price tag, so head says leave that one for retirement, much to heart's disappointment.
The Bavaria (if we get it) will give us immediate use and my head can find no sensible reason to doubt that would not be the case for a good number of years - our type of sailing will present a lot less hard wear than a charter boat would be subject to and they cope pretty well with that. Put in our personal touch and I can see how one learns to love one's own boat whatever it is.
silver-fox
Active member
No Seven Spades is not trying to say that so no point in trying to exaggerate his words and experience to a point of absurdity .
He makes it perfectly clear what he is saying, without the need for any inaccurate paraphrasing.
The basic volume and weight observations he makes are valid irrespective of who makes the boat. - Hallberg Rassy have to face the same design issues as anyone else.
The influences of weight and hull shape, form stabilty and sea kindliness are well understood by most experienced sailors and designers
At one end of the design spectrum we have light, voluminous, flat bottomed, large arsed, production boats fly in light winds - particularly downwind, have great accommodation, but slam and are unbelievably lively in a blow, often needing two rudders to prevent stalling and uncontrolled luffing up, and when it gets really bad have too much windage to make good progress upwind under sail.
at the other we have deep V hulls with low freeboard/topsides(ie comparatively low volume) tend not to slam, can make make progress upwind, a slower more sea kindly motion which is easier on the crew but are unbelievably wet and have very limited accommodation
All of this is known to yacht designers, - and more besides but who also know that most of us don't sail in those conditions and that buyers place more importance on accommodation and light wind performance - features which sell the boats by the thousand!
Seven spades had the decency to share his relevant experience in a couple of well balanced posts - as have other posters on this thread. Its the sort of post that adds value, even if you may not agree with him.
If your views differ lets hear why!
Tranona
Well-known member
Can you give us SPECIFIC examples of what you mean - not just hearsay?
pvb
Well-known member
I don't think he did make it clear at all, and I'm not exaggerating his words. He said "The Bavaria will give you lots of boat for the money, and they are better built than their reputation, and they do sail well in light winds. However they don't point as high as many and given their light weight you will find it hard to make progress in some rough conditions because when they slam they stop dead in the water." (my bolding)
I simply took issue with the statement that Bavarias are light weight boats. They're not significantly different in displacement from similarly-sized so-called "blue water cruisers" like the HR.
GrahamM376
New member
Of course all boats have dropped in price and at the moment it's a buyers market. IIRC a new 376 cost around £57,000 in 1988 and some well equipped ones still fetch that kind of money but I doubt the same will apply to modern mass production boats when they reach a similar age. As far as maintenance is concerned, I see no problem, our boat is well used and lived aboard 9/12 and it's a very rare event for something to fail. Look at the old Bavs, Bennys & Jeanneaus, the same applies as they're far different build to the modern ones.
Here in Leixeos, in common with most marinas there are just 2 Moodies and maybe 12 Bavs. Strange that many Bav liveaboards we've met say "I wish we had a Moody" but, I've never heard anyone say the opposite
silver-fox
Active member
Thanks for pointing out my mistake. Poor drafting - no excuse.
To prevent me inadvertently misleading any purchaser of new boats I have edited the post to read
"I read somewhere that any purchaser of a used boat should set aside 20% of the purchase price for rectification. I frankly didn't believe it but I do now!"
Tranona
Well-known member
I am afraid your figures just do not stack up. In 2001 you could have had a choice of a new Moody for about £110k, a Bavaria 37 like mine for £70k or a 12 year old 376 for around £70k - so no wonder many people bought Bavarias at the time. Remember inflation between 1988 and 2001 was over 45% which partly explains why many used boats increased in monetary value during the period.Of course all boats have dropped in price and at the moment it's a buyers market. IIRC a new 376 cost around £57,000 in 1988 and some well equipped ones still fetch that kind of money but I doubt the same will apply to modern mass production boats when they reach a similar age. As far as maintenance is concerned, I see no problem, our boat is well used and lived aboard 9/12 and it's a very rare event for something to fail. Look at the old Bavs, Bennys & Jeanneaus, the same applies as they're far different build to the modern ones.
Here in Leixeos, in common with most marinas there are just 2 Moodies and maybe 12 Bavs. Strange that many Bav liveaboards we've met say "I wish we had a Moody" but, I've never heard anyone say the opposite
Fast forward to today and asking prices for 376s are mostly under £50k - and the last 3 Bav 37s that sold in the UK all achieved just over £50k. It is true you may get £55k for a really good 376 - but they are few and far between - probably because those who own good ones don't want to sell!
Always wary of people who say "wish we had a boat like yours" - why don't they? After all there are plenty of 376s around - 20 on total, 6 on the UK market alone at the moment at "bargain" prices. Half of them have asking prices below £50k. Would guess that gasdave's thinking is more in tune with today's buyer - they look at the two alternatives and decide their money is beter "invested" in a newer boat.
jwilson
Well-known member
Long, long term the Moody is the better boat - I have always found Moody deck mouldings in particular to stand up to wear and tear better than many other marques. Also, more (but very far from all) of the interior joinery is solid timber, and thus easier to sand down and revarnish when needed. The Bavaria is however probably a long way off being so worn/tired that it needs any of that done. When it does you will encounter more thin veneers that are difficult to make good again.
Buying for 5 years, I'd probably have the Bavaria, if planning on keeping 20 years I'd consider the Moody, but be prepared to put a lot of work into it.
Buying for 5 years, I'd probably have the Bavaria, if planning on keeping 20 years I'd consider the Moody, but be prepared to put a lot of work into it.
Just_sayin'
Well-known member
Here in Leixeos, in common with most marinas there are just 2 Moodies and maybe 12 Bavs. Strange that many Bav liveaboards we've met say "I wish we had a Moody" but, I've never heard anyone say the opposite
Strange that they didn't buy the Moody in the first place. Or fantasy?
pvb
Well-known member
Or just being polite?
Tranona
Well-known member
Funny that - on a number of occasions when we had our Bav in Greece, folks cruising in MABs would come on board and say "wish we had bought a boat like yours" - particularly those which had lots of woodwork on deck, cockpits too small to stretch out and narrow hulls where you had to enter the cabin in a prescribed order. Bit like the old Trislanders flying to Alderney.
Just_sayin'
Well-known member
Being a Mo'Boer who is slowly making his way south in company with two other boats it's fair to say that I have no interest in either boat.
What fascinates me though is the smell of BS.
I have a friend who lives in Nazare who I plan to visit. I think it would be fun to pop down to Grahams marina to find these people and simply ask them if they are the ones who (strangely) bought a Bavaria but (even more strangely) actually wanted not just another boat but an actual Moody.
Have I said that's strange?
Could be fun.
What fascinates me though is the smell of BS.
I have a friend who lives in Nazare who I plan to visit. I think it would be fun to pop down to Grahams marina to find these people and simply ask them if they are the ones who (strangely) bought a Bavaria but (even more strangely) actually wanted not just another boat but an actual Moody.
Have I said that's strange?
Could be fun.
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GrahamM376
New member
The possible £20k has to be put into perspective. Maybe £1000 was necessary expenditure at purchase - rudder removed and resealed at Moody yard and I replaced a bust GPS. The rest was in optional upgrades - radar, chart plotter, a couple of instruments & navtex, electric windlass, gantry & solar, Aerogen, bimini and cockpit tent, liferaft, EPIRB, DSC VHF, dinghy & outboard etc. The engine was again a choice to upgrade, the original is still running in another boat.
As you will see, most of the list could well be optional upgrades to a brand new boat so it's unfair to class them as necessary work on an old boat.
GrahamM376
New member
May see you there, we plan to maybe head a bit further north next week before heading south (including Nazare) to home base in Faro.
Just_sayin'
Well-known member
QUOTE=GrahamM376;4817893]May see you there, we plan to maybe head a bit further north next week before heading south (including Nazare) to home base in Faro.[/QUOTE]
You misunderstand.
It's not you that we want to meet,it's all those Bavaria owners, such a large number, who actually wanted to buy a Moody instead, but didn't.
The quest has already begun here and the results aren't promising so far, one English, one French, happy with their Bavaria's.
TBH neither really understood the question. We think they're in denial but the search will continue until we make it it The Med.
You misunderstand.
It's not you that we want to meet,it's all those Bavaria owners, such a large number, who actually wanted to buy a Moody instead, but didn't.
The quest has already begun here and the results aren't promising so far, one English, one French, happy with their Bavaria's.
TBH neither really understood the question. We think they're in denial but the search will continue until we make it it The Med.
silver-fox
Active member
QUOTE
You misunderstand.
It's not you that we want to meet,it's all those Bavaria owners, such a large number, who actually wanted to buy a Moody instead, but didn't.
The quest has already begun here and the results aren't promising so far, one English, one French, happy with their Bavaria's.
TBH neither really understood the question. We think they're in denial but the search will continue until we make it it The Med.[/QUOTE]
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So Just Sayin, what's your objective with this poll you have invented?
Are you really so passionate about market surveys? If so, lets hear a bit more about your methodology and how you are collecting and recording the data, otherwise the results are hardly going to be credible and worth publishing are they?
If on the other hand you are intent on mocking a guy who is passionate about his boat under the guise of a straw poll, I would be curious to know why? Teach him a lesson? Make him look small? Make yourself look big and clever? Do tell.
Just_sayin'
Well-known member
Funny.
A guy posts "Here in Leixeos, in common with most marinas there are just 2 Moodies and maybe 12 Bavs. Strange that many Bav liveaboards we've met say "I wish we had a Moody" but, I've never heard anyone say the opposite' and you accuse me of starting a poll.
Very simple.
Three of us are delivering our boats down to the SOF. Same old, same old. We're bored. Amongst other things we read forums. We smell BS. We don't see passion. Just made up 'facts'
We wonder why.
From now on it's just a diversion to sniff out :nonchalance: the BS.
OK with you?
If so, please give us another made up fact and we'll look into that too.
James_Calvert
Well-known member
Seems obvious to me. A new Moody costs more than a new Bavaria, and for them, would have been the more desirable boat. But they couldn't afford one, and rather than take the risk of an older boat (albeit a Moody), they bought a Bavaria. Wouldn't have stopped them dreaming of a Moody, and being happy to say so.
Of course if you don't agree with the premise that the Moody is a better boat, you wouldn't understand.
And for what it's worth, I personally have never wanted a Moody.
jimi
Well-known member
I bought a 1995 Moody couple of years ago, replaced rigging,sails and seacocks. Apart from that everything was in pretty good order. I had a Beneteau 331 before which sailed beautifully but wanted something bigger. I looked at a few boats but really liked the Moody's and in partic the aft cockpit S38. Personally if I were to buy another boat I'd make the decision centre or aft first then look for one of that genre as IMHO centre or aft would be a bigger decision than choice of marque!
