Moody 376 vs bavaria 37

[gasdave]

I have finally got close to looking for my next boat and am keen to know what you experienced people out there think of this choice I am currently considering.

Both boats in good order, Bav is exceptionally good with interior as new and good spec of equipment. Requires no work and is in genuine sail away condition.
Moody has been chartered and out of commission for about 4 years, price reflects some declared necessary expenses but could still be good value - standing and running rigging, electrics, sails at least.
Moody is 1987, Bav is 2007 and listed at about £20k more.

My use is coastal cruising, mostly as a couple but we would like to keep next boat for around 10 years. Or possibly longer if we enjoy it.

Have always fancied these Moody's and been (probably unrationally) biased away from Bavbenjens. Now I'm asking myself why I wouldn't be better with this Bav as I can't really see anything wrong with it apart from the make, "if you know what I mean".

Have also looked at a couple of Similar sized Beneteaus and Jenneaus but not as taken by them.

Been checking out stats like ballast ratios, SA/displacement ratios, hull forms, draughts, keel shapes, etc.

So, what are your opinions? I could manage either budget though Bav would be at top end.

 

[pvb]

Faced with choice between a 1987 Moody and a 2007 Bavaria, I'd go for the Bavaria without hesitation. An 87 boat is going to be a constant maintenance issue; at least a 7 year old Bavaria should enable you to spend more time playing and less time mending. There's nothing inherently bad about Bavarias, they perhaps suffer from an inferior reputation fostered by ignorant critics. The boats are solid, well-built, and withstand heavy charter use easily.

20 years newer for £20K? How could you not go for the newer boat?

 

[Colvic Watson]

Same money? Bavaria then, you'll do more sailing and a lot less unpaid maintenance.

 

[Tranona]

Faced a similar choice and went for the Bavaria 37 - but more difficult then because both boats were much newer. The Moody has a lot to commend it in terms of layout. However chartered (presumably in this country) and unused for 4 years rings alarm bells - the £20k difference could quickly disappear but still leave you with a near 30 year old boat worth less than the Bavaria.

Based on my 13 year's experience of owning my 37 I can confirm that they really do hold up well - and you are starting with most of the "consumable" still with plenty of life left in them - so you can expect years of trouble free use.

 

[Sybarite]

Incidentally, I have just read that Hanse have overtaken Bavaria as the N°1 German leisure boat group. This is in terms of turnover, not in the number of boats.

They say that they intend soon to be n°1 on a worldwide basis.

 

[GrahamM376]

I was faced with the same choice 10 years ago, a new Bav or a 1988 Moody 376 for virtually the same price when the Moody upgraded. Went for the Moody and have no regrets.

 

[silver-fox]

Faced with the same choice 7 years ago I opted for a Moody 425 and have never regretted it.

I can almost guarantee the price difference between the two boats would be used up by the maintenance costs of bringing the Moody up to scratch. I can also assure you that the Bav will show the Moody a clean pair of heels in light winds, point closer and the cockpit will be better for entertaining.

On the other hand I find with my Moody 425 that it is very sea kindly and has a much gentler motion in a seaway than lighter more flat bottomed modern designs. It is also better mannered and balanced under pressure than the Bavarias I have sailed. And it has a marvellous stern cabin! IMHO they are more robust with more aesthetically pleasing joinery (to my jaundiced eye), but I must acknowledge there are very many happy Bav owners out there!

All boat designs are a compromise, there is no right or wrong choice, you just need to consider what you like and what you want use it for! (e.g. A major Moody liveaboard benefit for me is an island bed! Oh the luxury of being able to get out without climbing over my wife or vice versa!)

Good luck with your choice.

 

[gasdave]

Thank you for replies so far - these are helpful. Silver fox, you have confirmed my thoughts about what the difference in sailing characteristics are likely to be. The Moody is a significantly heavier boat with a shallower draught, the Bav might sail a little more upright, and make to windward better although maybe slam more in a sea.

Like you say, it will always be a matter of compromise. But it's a nice thing to have to compromise on!

So far, we are swaying more towards the Bav on the basis of current value for money. She's in such good condition and ready to enjoy, we're not likely to be rough on her and therefore I would expect many more years of relatively trouble free use for only the cost of maintenance (and possibly some upgrade "treats"). They are designed for exactly the type of use we expect to put her to and she does come with a selection of good quality hardware already installed.

When we reach a time in our lives when we could consider going a bit further afield then we could reconsider and look for a more "traditional" long term live aboard vessel.

 

[SHUG]

Creak...Creak ...Creak...Creak........Bavaria
................................................Moody

 

[Tranona]

So far, we are swaying more towards the Bav on the basis of current value for money.

Assume the 376 is the one in Rhu. At the right price (considerably less than asking!) and a couple of months fettling could be a good buy. The modern engine is a big plus but you are still likely to spend more time and money keeping it going than the newer boat even after the £10k or so you will spend putting it right.

Bit of "heart and head" decision. There is something attractive about the older boats, particularly if you lusted after them when newer, but could not afford them. However you can learn to love your "head" decision when you spend most of your time sailing rather than fixing!

 

[GrahamM376]

So far, we are swaying more towards the Bav on the basis of current value for money..

There are lots of Bavs out there and in a few years I would expect them to be at giveaway prices on the second hand market, due solely to the number around. OTOH, the older Moody is unlikely to depreciate by the same amount but, will no doubt need more money spending now on upgrades. I guess we've spent up to £20k over the last 10 years but that includes a new engine and lots more.

I agree with silver-fox about the different characteristics and although the Bav is quicker, I much prefer the sea kindliness of the Moody when conditions get lively.

 

[Tranona]

There are lots of Bavs out there and in a few years I would expect them to be at giveaway prices on the second hand market, due solely to the number around.

Don't follow that logic. There are a lot around because they are very popular with buyers - both new and used.

Not knocking your boat, but if you look at the ones on the market at the moment asking prices have dropped to around £45 -55k compared with the £70k only a few years ago. The boat the OP is looking at is on at £44k or offers, but needs at least £10k to get it up to the level of others on the market, so is likely to go for less than £40k. You only have to look at the way values of previous generation (1970's) boats have plummeted to see that a similar pattern is likely with 80's and 90's boats as buyers see the realities of the cost of keeping them going to a reasonable standard.

 

[Javelin]

With my boat builders hat on I'd go with the moody every time.

In ten years the moody will still be worth spending money on whilst I'm not sure the same would be true of the Bav.

I understand there are a lot of very happy bav owners on here but I can tell you I have met many who aren't so happy and some of the build techniques I've seen frankly give me the willies.

 

[jordanbasset]

I had a 2003 Bavarai 38, great boat, in the 4 years we lived aboard her she required minimum maintenance, my next boat will also be a Bav because of the reliability. Am sure the Moody will be okay but for me I would go with the Bav

 

[tyce]

I have an 87 moody, admittedly it's a 31 so a good bit smaller but I am a little lost with all this maintenance people go on about. Buy it, new standing rigging new sails then what?
Other than the work involved in fitting treats that I buy for it and slapping a bit of varnish / antifoul around and the occasional clean it does not require anything. Surely the same jobs apply to the Bavaria. I guess if you buy a run down / damaged one there will be a bit to do but otherwise?

 

[Seven Spades]

My first boat was a 1 year old Bavaria 36 with 500 miles on the log. It taught me so much about sailing characteristics and what is good and bad that when I decided to upgrade I was able to know exactly what characteristics in a boat I wanted. The boat that ticked the most boxes was a Starlight, I am not trying to persuade you to look at a different boat because the point of the story was that I sold the Bavaria two years later for very close to the price I paid. Bavarias are very much like a Ford Escort, there are lots around and the price they change hands at are in a narrow band i.e. If you ask £500 too much it won't sell and £500 to low and it will be snapped up. You can buy a Bavaria with the confidence that there is a ready market should you wish to change.

In my case I sold the Bavaria, then a 2 year old boat and bought a 10 year old boat. The Bavaria will give you lots of boat for the money, and they are better built than their reputation, and they do sail well in light winds. However they don't point as high as many and given their light weight you will find it hard to make progress in some rough conditions because when they slam they stop dead in the water. Buying a boat is a compromise you have to trade space, performance, age and price and find out what works for you.

 

[pvb]

The Bavaria will give you lots of boat for the money, and they are better built than their reputation, and they do sail well in light winds. However they don't point as high as many and given their light weight you will find it hard to make progress in some rough conditions because when they slam they stop dead in the water.

I don't understand this "light weight" argument. Light weight compared with what - a steel boat? As far as I can see, a 6 or 7 year old Bavaria 37 weighs 6.9 tonnes, whilst a Hallberg-Rassy 37 weighs 7.5 tonnes.

 

[Seven Spades]

Its weight to volume ratio not total weight. So a large boat of 7 tons V a smaller boat of 7 tons will sit differently in the water. The larger boat will tend to sit on top of the water and slam, the smaller boat will sit in the water and plough through the waves rather than drop off them.

 

[pvb]

Its weight to volume ratio not total weight. So a large boat of 7 tons V a smaller boat of 7 tons will sit differently in the water. The larger boat will tend to sit on top of the water and slam, the smaller boat will sit in the water and plough through the waves rather than drop off them.

So what you were trying to say then is that most modern production boats (including Hallberg-Rassys) will "stop dead in the water" in rough conditions?

 

[silver-fox]

The comparison to the car market is a very valid one IMHO.

Second hand cars are valued quite simply on desirability and the buyers perception of the useful economic life left in the car. the better the car the slower the depreciation.

The boat market best maps to the luxury car market where, as the vehicle ages, a tipping point is reached as the purchase cost greatly reduces, butthe cost of ownership and maintenance becomes increasingly high in proportion, until along comes a cost that the owner either can't or feels is simply not worth paying (for example new teak decks at £20-30k!). At that point it stops being something you sail and becomes a project!

I read somewhere that any purchaser of a used boat should set aside 20% of the purchase price for rectification. I frankly didn't believe it but I do now!

But I am wandering off the subject. I don't know who first said it but it was a wise and experienced man said "the two happiest days of a boat owners life are the day he buys and the day he sells his boat"!

Thankfully I am still in the honeymoon period in the middle - and that has taught me one thing - don't buy a boat unless you love it!