Mobos get a Life (or sense)

[Wiggo]

Genuine question

Given that it is not possible in the Solent to leave sufficient room for wash to die away completely, and given that dropping from 20 to 10 knots will leave a vastly bigger wash, which gives the most comfortable ride for a yacht:

a) overtaking you and remaining on a parallel track so you have to cross my wash at a gentle (30 degree-ish) angle, or

b) overtaking you and then turning sharply across your bow (a good distance away), so you cross my wash at right angles, but it's quite wide at that point, or

c) overtaking you and turning sharply across your bow as close as is safe, so you cross a very narrow wake at right angles?

I imagine that a) will make you corkscrew violently, b) will make you pitch quite a lot, and c) will make you pitch much less, but may frighten the living daylights out of you if you think I don't know what I'm doing.

Happy to modify my behaviour if it helps make life more comfortable...

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[Talbot]

I am afraid your comments show a lack of understanding of the effect on raggies (and small dinghies) The majority of us accept the need for different types of craft to occupy the same stretch of water. We accept that a mobo will create wash. We do not accept that it is OK to pass within a few feet of another boat without any consideration for the effect on that boat. I have had wash from a squadron 52 coming solidly into my cockpit and observed the w**kers laughing at the effect. I will also accept that there are raggies who would appear to be going out of their way to be a nuisance (i.e. tacking at the last moment) and that racers are particularly prone to this. I STRONGLY believe that understanding of effects and consideration for other types of user should be an essential part of the RYA shore and afloat courses.

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[Peppermint]

Re:They\'d think it was

because you admired them or their boat.

You'd just bring them closer.

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[cameronke]

I think that the answer would be to tax red diesel!

Runs for Cover

Cameron

<hr width=100% size=1>Work to live, live to sail

 

[jimi]

Re: genuine question

C) will give you the worst of both worlds ... the wash as you overtake close by will cause you to roll and the cross over will cause pitching. The thing that does mke a difference is distance .. the firther away the less "sharp" the wash is when it hits you. It's just a nuisance to me but .. in the intial post it could have been serious to the fisherman and his son ... and I've seen small boats, motor as well as saily, in the Solent that were in serious danger of getting swamped .

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[KevB]

Re: Idealism gets us no where.

LOL!!! Very good. And "most" of what you say makes sense. taking my antagonistic hast off now...... We really do understand that our wash can make you spill your milk and whenever realistically possible give as wide a berth as we can. Unfortunately we can pass with hundreds of yards between boats but our wake fans out, what are we to do?



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[KevB]

Yes, I agree. There are some who could do with keel hauling but Boatman is tarring all with the same brush.
Peppermint has hit the nail on the head. Almost!!

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[Wiggo]

Re: genuine question

Sorry, Jimi, let me clarify: I meant overtaking leaving as much searoom as is practiable, to keep the wash away as we pass, then turning hard across to give the narrowest wake pattern for the yacht to cross. Certainly in a small mobo, you want to cross the wash at 90 degrees. The wash from a mobo is quite steep but relatively low close to the transom, and reaches a peak amplitude maybe 40-70 feet back, before gradually dissipating.

So it's a question of:
low but steep = big, short splash,
high and moderately wide = lots of pitching for a moderate width
low but wide = slopping about a bit for ages getting across

Bear in mind that the latter won't always be an option, as there won't alkways be enough searoom to get that far ahead before the wash from the overtake hits you beam on.

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[robp]

Re: Idealism gets us no where.

It's clear to see when a Mobo passes as far away as is practible given the overcrowding problem and that is always perfectly acceptable to me. Even if it causes discomfort. It's only when it is avoidable that it pisses off raggies. Safety of small boats is paramount though and ALL of us have to accept that.

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[robp]

Cross eyed and cross legged presumably?

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[tome]

If you look at the Solent on a busy day, there are sailing yachts all over and it's hard to see how a MoBo can steer a course without coming close to a few. In any weather, their wake makes almost no impression on a well found yacht.

It's in light winds (ideal MoBo weather) when their wake is most felt. If significant, I tend to turn into the wake and take it on the bow. Not a big deal normally, but I saw one yacht who failed to do this and ended up rolling. The helmsman waved his fist at the MoBo which I thought totally unnecessary.

The times I would most appreciate a wide berth are at anchor or when working at the boom (usually near harbour entrance). Otherwise, enjoy and don't let this degenerate into another slanging match.

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[TonyBrooks]

I fear the answer/reason for all this is the ability of certain boats to "keep their crew safe" with the minimum of seamanship.

As a ditchcrawler I feel I can stand back a bit and perhaps make comment.

If a sailor does not possess a reasonable knowlege of seamanship - working tides - etc they will not get a very enjoyable experience, where as an owner of a high speed plaining MOBO can simply open the throttle and power themselves out of trouble.

I was amazed at the fuel consumptions quoted as absolutely normal of one of the red diesel threads and feel that this tends to confirm that a number of MOBO owners place speed above all else.

Whilst it is true that a planing hull at 10knts is likley to make more wash than if it was fully on the plane at 20knts, but it would make far less wash if it was runnning at displacement speeds. The fact that some MOBOs feel the need to run at higher speeds whilst entering and leaving congested waters just amazes me.

I certainly do not want compulsory testing of competance, but unless ANY boater who is acting in an inconsiderate way can be cause to recognise the problems they cause we will get compulsion (as is starting to creep into the inland scene) because there will be a serious accident, (probably caused by a prat) and the back covering will begin. Regretably the people, mobo, raggy, ditchcrawler, who causes these problems is unlikley to have undertaken any training and probably can not see the need for it.

I also do not think it helpfull to pick on one very small expression of just how frustrated a boater felt and blow it up as if he was ever likely to actually do it.

I can see no effective answer to it appart from some form of patrol in confined waters.

As an aside and relating to the defaced blue job mentioned, I had a very simmilar experience in that two defaced blues were powering out of lock cut straight at me and probably exceeding the speed limit. I was pottering along, watching the fishes and weed on the bottom (I was that far towards the bank). I was in the correct position, so held my course. At the last minute it must have suddenly dawned that a 16 ton steel lance would not have a good effect on tupperwear and they turned away slightly.

Regretably every pesuit has its pratts and we just have to live with them and hope.

Tony Brooks

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[KevB]

If someone is put in danger because of the actions of another, they should be reported. I would report anyone on the water causing danger.

If you are inconvenienced because of the actions of another - live with it.

By the nature of our chosen past time we will "interact" with one another.
Look at fisherman and divers as an example, not best of friends and they're not even moving!!


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[Keen_Ed]

Re: Genuine question

Personally, as a racing sailor, I have no problem with meeting a wash parallel to my course. Yes, you corkscrew, but it's no big deal. The thing that hacks me off is someone who crosses my bow, so that we meet the wash head on. Especially in light winds, the boat stops dead with the sails flapping about, and if the wash is big enough, the bows go into the wash, water comes aft on the deck and we've been really stopped dead.

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[Wiggo]

Re: Genuine question

Ah, well there you go, then, I've learned something. In a small mobo, you'd use the throttle to lift the bows, and prefer to take the wash on the nose rather than corkscrew around in it.

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[tome]

Each to his own, but I haven't reported anyone in 25 years and it would take a pretty serious breach of safety before I'd consider it. The most recent incident I recall was a MoBo running his engines in gear as we came in to our (tight) home berth, with my wife attempting the berth for the first time.

I made eye contact with him as we came in and saw him move to the throttles so thought he would knock her out of gear. He didn't and we had to abandon and turn, at which point my wife bottled out of the attempt. Pity. I wandered over to talk to him afterwards and received his genuine apology and the offer of a beer.

It won't put my wife off for long, and at least she now knows to expect the unexpected. Big deal!

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[jimi]

Re: Genuine question

In fact if you get the was at the right angle you can get surfing! Perhaps a business opportunity for a Mobo with some of our more "competitive" racing brethren?

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[KevB]

A motorboat at displacement speed in anything other than fairly calm waters can be a handful to control. The bow of the boat is pushed sideways by even the smallest of waves as we have no keel to hold us in place.

An example of this can be seen often whilst entering Portsmouth harbour, trying to steer straight in the large swell that can occur there whilst at displacement speed can be almost impossible.

Another area where speed is sometime necessary is when enter Chichester harbour, the swell at the Bar can easily turn a motorboat sideways if too little speed is used.

Most motorboats under 40' do not have rudders, we rely on the direction of the propellers pushing the water to give us steerage. At low speeds with a bit of tide running, wind or swell, steering can be "wooly" at best.

I am not trying to make excuses, just giving examples where it could be dangerous to go slow.


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[SteveB_Sigma33]

I think most raggies are happy to co-exist with mobos but as previously stated - it's when they come so close when there is no apparent need for it!

Raggies need to be considerate when they tack (should all be part of the drill - looking around 360 before tacking and anticipating other boats etc etc)

Mobo's need to give a little more room rather than cut corners!

It's a lovely way to spend a weekend, lets not ruin it for ourselves or anyone else!



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[robp]

Good post! It's just that kind of information which will help raggies understand that we all have our problems.

Just unfortunate that going into Chi or similar is where it can be most uncomfortable. The most damage I ever experienced was courtesey of the Royal Navy, going into Poole years ago!

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