MOB volvooceanrace

[lw395]

I have personal experience which brings these events home very very painfully each time they occur.
One point I would make is, in our case, although the race was almost over, the race was abandoned and no results published.
On another note, before this tragedy I was already thinking about making an ais enabled danbouy. I'm still not totally convinced yet, but it may yet be a worthwhile project.
It took my crew weeks to come to terms - some never did and haven't really sailed since. Fortunately the family encouraged us to continue racing and took comfort he was doing the sport he had enjoyed for many years.
I hope Johns family can do the same.
K

I have close friends in your position.
Although I feel the RTW races are now a little pointless and too many people are dying, it is a risk people want to take, and we have to accept the ocean is never going to be 'safe'.

AIS danbuoy are available.
Also for some years, AIUI, some boat have used things like the McMurdo Smartfind taped to a normal danbuoy pole. Unfortunately this require manual activation before launch and every second at 20 knots is a terribly long swim. It is at least a drifting marker which gives a reference.

 

[AJ_01]

Although I feel the RTW races are now a little pointless and too many people are dying, it is a risk people want to take, and we have to accept the ocean is never going to be 'safe'.

As sad as it is... I think that’s the point. Those joining a RTW race crew, know what they are doing and taking part in. As bad as it is for family and friends of those who are lost at sea. RIP.

 

[flaming]

Unfortunately I suspect the Jonbuoy would've landed nowhere near him. If they were surfing in an 8 when he went over then by the time anyone reacted they'd've been quite a way away from him when it was thrown over the side.

They’d just crash Gybed. Most likely they’re lying on their side, keel to leeward, basically stopped.

That will take some sorting out. Especially as there would have been 3, maybe 4, people on deck at the time, and one of them isn’t there any more.

 

[lpdsn]

They’d just crash Gybed. Most likely they’re lying on their side, keel to leeward, basically stopped.

That will take some sorting out. Especially as there would have been 3, maybe 4, people on deck at the time, and one of them isn’t there any more.

Is that what was reported? I saw that they had 1 reef in the main and no kite up so I'd be surprised if they stopped dead. Do you know what speed they were doing? I'd expect 20 knots downhill in those conditions is likely to be underestimate.

 

[zoidberg]

There is an argument for having TWO auto-inflating dan buoys - one deployed some 5-10 seconds after the first. That does better than provide a rough position. It provides a Line of Position....

 

[webcraft]

.
The big question in my mind is, why was he not clipped on?

- W

 

[{151760}]

.
The big question in my mind is, why was he not clipped on?

- W

Yes. Surely it's possible to design the cockpit systems so that the crew can be always clipped on?

 

[flaming]

Is that what was reported? I saw that they had 1 reef in the main and no kite up so I'd be surprised if they stopped dead. Do you know what speed they were doing? I'd expect 20 knots downhill in those conditions is likely to be underestimate.

Surfing in those conditions was probably 25 minimum.
Crash gybe a canting keel mono with split backstays at that speed and you’re lying on your side for sure.

 

[alant]

.
The big question in my mind is, why was he not clipped on?

- W

Reported on local tv news, that he unclipped to sort out some tangled lines.

 

[dom]

Lots of things could have happened during those last tragic moments. There is for example some question as to whether John was hit by the boom, not the main sheet, and in practice on this type of boat and in that kind of wind, neither might have been survivable events.

In the circumstances the most gracious course of action might be to await the crew’s arrival on shore and some hard details.

Deepest condolences to John’s family and friends.

 

[lpdsn]

Surfing in those conditions was probably 25 minimum.
Crash gybe a canting keel mono with split backstays at that speed and you’re lying on your side for sure.

I didn't think of them having runners but of course if the main is pinned they'd be on their side. Although it sounds like the boom came right across. I still doubt whether they were able to get the Jonbuoy close. Anyway, we'll see what the story is when it comes out.

 

[KellysEye]

> He was unclipped as he was moving forward to tidy up a sheet.

Very sad but that is unbelievable . Our rule was is if you go forward in bad weather you go on your knees clipped on with a short tether so you can't go over the guardrail. If you are going to reef put the long tether around the mast to stop falling back. Had he been on his knees the boom wouldn't have hit him. We always clipped on in bad weather and at night.

 

[Viking]

VOR control reported that "He was unclipped moving forward" One would have throught that, when moving forward thats the time to be clipped on! Very sad!

 

[Spyro]

These boats have cameras all over the place. I don't know if the run all the time but if they do they will know exactly what happened. If as reported the boat crash gybed it wouldn't be going at any great speed. I would have thought something as simple as hitting the MOB button would have given a pretty accurate position. What a horrible situation for the crew.

 

[Spyro]

VOR control reported that "He was unclipped moving forward" One would have throught that, when moving forward thats the time to be clipped on! Very sad!

Moving forward could still be in the cockpit in these boats. The report said hit by maisheet tackle so I suspect still in the cockpit. That gives quite a false sense of security.

 

[flaming]

I didn't think of them having runners but of course if the main is pinned they'd be on their side. Although it sounds like the boom came right across. I still doubt whether they were able to get the Jonbuoy close. Anyway, we'll see what the story is when it comes out.

Not runners, two topmast backstays. Boom will go across, as it clears the backstay, but the bulk of the main would not.

Also remember that the angles these boats sail mean a crash gybe is not a 10 degree wobble as it might be if running DDW, but quite a big angle. In reality that does mean a leeward broach is the only real way to initiate one.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

These boats have cameras all over the place. I don't know if the run all the time but if they do they will know exactly what happened. If as reported the boat crash gybed it wouldn't be going at any great speed. I would have thought something as simple as hitting the MOB button would have given a pretty accurate position. What a horrible situation for the crew.

What speed to you think it was going at when the incident happened?

 

[lw395]

Is that what was reported? I saw that they had 1 reef in the main and no kite up so I'd be surprised if they stopped dead. Do you know what speed they were doing? I'd expect 20 knots downhill in those conditions is likely to be underestimate.

I would imagine that having crash-gybed, the boat would be going a lot slower, but on a random and variable track, which makes backtracking to find the casualty difficult, ifyou don't have instant access to the gPS track and a pretty accurate idea of current and drift of the casualty.
The timings in the announcement show it took a long time to sort the boat out and begin heading upwind.
Possibly the crash gybe damaged the boat/rig/systems?

 

[Spyro]

What speed to you think it was going at when the incident happened?

About the same speed as this one. Which before the gybe could be anything from 20-30 knots. After it not many knots at all.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OC2_uZ7Ys00

 

[Deleted member 36384]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OC2_uZ7Ys00

The first thing the grinder does after accidentally gybing is to unclip. Also it is clear that to do whatever they are doing just about everyone is unclipped.

At the post gybe heal they will be scooting sideways at a fair lick which would one assume put them a fair bit downwind of the MOB. However, it is clear from the video that there is a lot of side deck dug in deep, so may they are not going sideways that fast. The MOB might actually be moving quite fast with the waves with the end result that they are searching upwind on an assumption that they have drifted faster. I wonder what search pattern / strategy they used, it would be interesting to know.