MOB in a self-tacker with an inexperienced crew

I am pretty certain that if I did not loose sight of the MOB ( & that is one fear) i could get right alongside. I have a spare halyard with a hook attached up the mast & the other end to the cabin winch. If the MOB can get hooked on ( I insist crew wear LJs all the time if not then do not come) then I know my wife can winch them up. Also the halyard is long enough to reach the stern. So if the rope is shortened so the casualty is in the water and alongside amidships & the boat starts moving forward the MOB will get dragged aft. But in doing so the arc of the halyard from the mast will lift them up to deck level & opposite the cockpit. That may ( & I say May) make recovery easier. Especially if the boat heals over a bit. Even a rope to winch them aft would help to raise them up in a swinging moment.

The other option I have, is the life raft. I know that many say that they may not need one, but if I can get it alongside a MOB & the MOB has the energy they may be able to get into it. That is no mean feat having been in the water for 20 minutes. But I tell all crew. If you go in, go to the foetal position & do nothing. Conserve energy. They cannot swim anywhere, so do not try. Once in the raft, someone else can come & get them.
 
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Read #3 again nowhere did I suggest doing a MoB under sail.
What i said, was, let both sheets fly, motor upwind of casualty, then use ahead/astern allowing boat to drift down to casualty.
Try it, it is easy, even for someone inexperienced.
Flying the sheets, stops the boat, so it is near the casualty.
 
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Sandy said:
Do you really think that an inexperienced crew is going to perform a MOB under sail? Last time I was out with an RYA Cruising Instructor we discussed at length the current MOB thinking; you have an engine use it.

While a MOB drill undersail demonstrated good boat handling skills getting the MOB back onboard is your primary responsibility; I know my first 10 or 15 MOB drills each year are pretty messy. Personally, I would not want to have to sit with the MAIB and describe how the skipper drowned as we were faffing about with sails.
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Thats why Scotty said put the engine on......
 
penberth3 said:
Assuming the inexperienced crew know how to switch on fuel, electrics and start the engine. And the engine will start on the button from cold.
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Avoid assuming anything by simply showing them how to do it ten times before even leaving the dock.

Why are some people so intent on making something so difficult that is really quite straightforward??
 
penberth3 said:
Assuming the inexperienced crew know how to switch on fuel, electrics and start the engine. And the engine will start on the button from cold.
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My panel has start sequence written on it ... and my electrics / fuel are always on when boat is in use ...

Same as my 'heads' wriiten instructions pasted on back of bog door ... so no need to ask me what to do !!
 
penberth3 said:
Assuming the inexperienced crew know how to switch on fuel, electrics and start the engine. And the engine will start on the button from cold.
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Thats why any responsible skipper should do a safety brief beforehand, demonstrating how to do it & not forgetting, how to switch engine off.
Just showing them how the heads operates, is not enough.
 
Refueler said:
Its human nature ... provide answer - next is a modified scenario to counter your answer ... it can go on ad infinitum !!
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Well not really. People like Scotty have carried out these excercises many hundreds of times and know what is likely to happen, what may go wrong and how best to deal with it whilst explaining it.

As an example, if I had an accident I wouldnt be telling a hospital doctor that he is doing it all wrong when fixing me..... and certainly not listen to the guy in the next trolley that thinks he knows best too!
 
I'd assume you're own your own if you go over the side.

Prevent it happening by wearing a harness and extend your survival time by wearing a dry-suit or survival suit, always wear a lifejacket and carry a PLB and waterproof VHF.

Fit the boat with a fixed boarding ladder so you can climb back aboard - practice in the marina or somewhere safe so you know you can get yourself back on board.

Teach them how to send out a Mayday, make a card and stick it next to the VHF.

Go out in calm weather and let them practice MOB under power, recovering a fender.

Move on to sail and show them how to stop the boat, start the engine and get rid of the sails.

Once they are really used to sailing the boat and are competent, then consider recovery under sail.

..... an relax, it will probably never happen. ;)
 
capnsensible said:
Well not really. People like Scotty have carried out these excercises many hundreds of times and know what is likely to happen, what may go wrong and how best to deal with it whilst explaining it.

As an example, if I had an accident I wouldnt be telling a hospital doctor that he is doing it all wrong when fixing me..... and certainly not listen to the guy in the next trolley that thinks he knows best too!
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Did I rubbish his post or advice ? Did you read something that I never wrote ?
 
My own boat (Brit Hunter 245) also has a self tacking jib so I'm grateful for this thread, hoping I will learn something ...
A few points.
Never had an MOB, although have had usual training, also several HOBs. Still have hat.
I'm never happy with conventional teaching on MOB. So the crew sends a MAYDAY, puts the dan buoy overboard, heaves the ship to, and keeps the MOB in view all the time … all done simultaneously by one inexperienced panicking person. Not going to happen.
On not going OB in the first place - usually by clipping on to a jackstay which runs the length of each deck - result is that MOB is still attached to the boat, but in the water and unable to get back on board by his own efforts. If the boat is doing more than a few knots, the raises the risk to drowning from probable to certain. I have jackstays along each edge of the coachroof which can be used with a short tether, which should keep the potential MOB on, or at least near, deck. Recommended, although have yet to be tried in anger.
A S/T jib has the advantage of being small and easily furled, so this should be part of the plan and makes the job easier (possibly).
Instructions to crew: first press that red button (demonstrate with radio turned off). Anything else should be demonstrated and practised until automatic; instructions will be forgotten in the panic.
Wear a l/j and have a PLB in your pocket.
 
capnsensible said:
Calm down, its nothing to do with you. Its the ad infinitum bit.
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I'm calm .. no problem ... just could not understand where you got the anti Scotty from.

As to the ad infinitum bit ... its true for many discussions / arguments. Look at the various posted on such as 'modern boats horrible' etc. One person says xxx ... another says yy .. answer the yy and they come back with yy+ ww

I did not write as an insult - just plain fact.
 
Baggywrinkle said:
I'd assume you're own your own if you go over the side.

Prevent it happening by wearing a harness and extend your survival time by wearing a dry-suit or survival suit, always wear a lifejacket and carry a PLB and waterproof VHF.

Fit the boat with a fixed boarding ladder so you can climb back aboard - practice in the marina or somewhere safe so you know you can get yourself back on board.

Teach them how to send out a Mayday, make a card and stick it next to the VHF.

Go out in calm weather and let them practice MOB under power, recovering a fender.

Move on to sail and show them how to stop the boat, start the engine and get rid of the sails.

Once they are really used to sailing the boat and are competent, then consider recovery under sail.

..... an relax, it will probably never happen. ;)
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Wearing a survival/wet suit etc, might be useful if in extreme conditions, but most MoB's happen on a warm sunny day, when all are wearing shorts/suntan lotion.
You need to know what to do 'now', it can happen anytime.
 
Daydream believer said:
I am pretty certain that if I did not loose sight of the MOB ( & that is one fear) i could get right alongside. I have a spare halyard with a hook attached up the mast & the other end to the cabin winch. If the MOB can get hooked on ( I insist crew wear LJs all the time if not then do not come) then I know my wife can winch them up. Also the halyard is long enough to reach the stern. So if the rope is shortened so the casualty is in the water and alongside amidships & the boat starts moving forward the MOB will get dragged aft. But in doing so the arc of the halyard from the mast will lift them up to deck level & opposite the cockpit. That may ( & I say May) make recovery easier. Especially if the boat heals over a bit. Even a rope to winch them aft would help to raise them up in a swinging moment.

The other option I have, is the life raft. I know that many say that they may not need one, but if I can get it alongside a MOB & the MOB has the energy they may be able to get into it. That is no mean feat having been in the water for 20 minutes. But I tell all crew. If you go in, go to the foetal position & do nothing. Conserve energy. They cannot swim anywhere, so do not try. Once in the raft, someone else can come & get them.
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You are assuming that the MOB can assist the recovery. There is a high probability that the MOB won't be able to, for many reasons, such as:
  • Hypothermia/cold shock (almost inevitable in UK waters offshore)
  • Injury - highly likely; an event violent enough to put someone overboard is violent enough to cause injury.
  • Water inhalation, either when going overboard or from spray
  • Disorientation
Of these, at least one (hypothermia) often results in illogical behaviour; the MOB may actively resist assistance.

Any procedure which assumes an active role for the MOB may well fail in practice.

I can't stress too much that avoiding going overboard has to take the highest priority. If someone goes overboard, you're already in a situation with a low survivability.

A while ago, I went overboard in our marina - I was working in a dinghy and accidentally tipped it over. I couldn't get out of the water, even though the pontoon is much lower than my boat. My wife could not haul me out. A friend got me out using a halliard as described. My experience of that is such that I have no confidence of it working at sea - I think I'd have been repeatedly smashed against the side of the boat. After the event, we worked out that I could have swum to an adjacent boat with a swim ladder; a ladder starting well below the surface would have allowed me to climb out - but I was in sheltered water that was relatively warm. In cold water with oilskins, I couldn't have done it after a few minutes in the water.

I have personal experience of the effects of cold water - I've told this on these fora before, but as a teenager I dived from my dad's boat off the east coast of Scotland to get a rope off the propeller. My dad and my brother assisted from an inflatable. After the first dive, I could just get out of the water into the inflatable. After the second, my dad and brother had to help me, and after the third, they had to partially deflate the boat to get me over the side; I was a dead weight in the water. I was in the water for no more than a few minutes. At the time I was in excellent physical condition.

My entire philosophy on MOB is don't get into the position where you need it because if you do you're already on the way to being a statistic.
 
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