MOB in a self-tacker with an inexperienced crew

I had the experience of recovering a MOB from a stable marina pontoon early last spring. Gentleman was not wearing any buoyancy or lifejacket but had a large number of layers of woollen clothing on. Somehow I managed to lift probably in excess of 110 kilos deadweight without any warm up but stimulated by a huge dose of adrenaline and not evening noticing I was just wearing my underpants.
He was conscious but was barely able to reciprocate with grip or even a leg kick after a very very short time in the water.
I am convinced that should I go overboard from my self tacking yacht that my arthritic wife would at least press the red button.....
This might well be some time after I have gone overboard.....
I am also convinced that if this happened in rough conditions or whilst underway I would be drowned or knocked unconscous after a very short time if on a long tether.....
I just have not bothered training her to perform any other daring deeds to personally rescue me.
She would have the ability to roll the self tacking jib in and lift the boom to a safe point with the topping lift.
She is able to start and stop the engine and can manoeuvre up to a buoy in calm conditions better than myself.

Her No 1prioritywould be to stay safe and navigate away from danger for her own sake.
We have a cockpit command remote mic with lat long display. This would enable her to multitask in the cockpit. Communication with rescue services and staying safe would be her no 1 priority, sod me!

She might be able to use the cockpit mounted AIS GPS display to find me. Either by reversing track or if I had the ability to transmit my location with some form of personal AIS transmitter or locator.
I did ask for one at Christmas but Santa hasn't obliged yet.
I quite honestly think that by the time she got alongside me there would be zero chance of her making any recovery.

I would put my chances of my body being recovered dead or alive by a helicopter or LB much higher.
This might work out best as the CG chopper overflys our home at least twice a day on it's way back to it's base from the local hospital 5 miles away!
Best outlook is on a good day she might visit me on the ward but most likely it would probably be in the mortuary.

Staying on board is your no 1priority for your family.
Invest in good deck wear as going overboard is only possible if you are not clipped on.
Slips and trips can and will happen when you least expect them.

Short tether if clipping on.

Always carry a knife.

Invest in a cockpit mic as keeping an eye on a POB whilst down below is impossible.

Does any of this significantly change if it is anybody else in your family overboard?

Check your life cover!

Too much and she might be tempted to literally give you the elbow overboard when you least expect it!


Steve
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Short enough that when clipped onto a jackstay ... does not allow you to go over the side.
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I am not taking the p..s here so please do not take it as such this is leading to genuine point ( eventually)--- but think about what you have written
If someone is on the side deck clipped to a jackstay on the side deck then allowing for the jackstay lifting a bit that would mean that your line could not be longer than 2 ft ( ie the height of guardrail above a taught jackstay) because any longer than that & your body could be clipped on but hanging over the side.
So you are telling me that your lifeline is 2ft long ( being the approx distance from jackstay to top of guard rail)- is that it? -- see where I am coming from?
 
I find it interesting that people talk about safety line length ... but no-one talks about where its clipped or how to the body.

I have seen people seriously injured when falling even just a couple of feet and brought up by a front fastened safety line ... the spinal shock as their back arched .... I accept that's worst case with a belt type harness ..

Back to line length !
 
Refueler said:
Back to line length !
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Ok before any one replies to my earlier post & because I do not want to start winding Antartic Pilot up I will explain why I asked about the term "short tether" & why I think it is wrong to suggest one.
I had a crew who came on a 2 week cruise with me & he had just bought his own tether 4 ft long. I told him it was useless, but he disagreed. So off we went & he soon hooked on in the cockpit to a U bolt whilst he was siting down. However, when it came to cross over to wind a winch he found that he could not stand up so had to unhook (he is 6 ft tall) Then later on I asked him to help furl the sail. The normal procedure is to clip on to the jackstay then step from the cockpit slightly forward whilst holding the winch & the cabin hatch edge. That gives a secure 2 handed grip whilst one partly stands. But his line was too short to let him stand up, so he had to unhook, then sit on the cabin top whilst he re hooked. Then, having shuffle bummed to the shrouds, he could not stand up. So he had to unhook. Further more when he hooked to the shroud he could not get round the mast.
It was all done in light weather but he soon realised that without a 2 metre tether he could not do the job. The stupid short tether he had bought was more likely to let him go overboard. I also pointed out that if he was clipped to the jackstay he could still hang a couple of feet overboard whilst being hooked on.
Soooo with my 2 metre tether, I have some movement in the cockpit, I can get onto the side deck, I can step up onto the cabin top ( I deliberately have slack jackstays so they lift up enough to allow that) & I stay clipped on all the time.
So Antartic Pilots "short enough to stop me going overboard" would ( in my case at least) be absolutely dangerous. I expect the same for others
So now someone is going to suggest tripple hook harness. My wife bought one but chucked it after the first couple of days because clumping around with a great metal hook swinging about made her feel like Marlow's ghost. They are very user unfriendly & she tended not to wear it. That is dangerous, if for some reason she forgot to put it on in a rush.

Next, someone will suggest a central jackstay. I have a self tacking jib & hatch garage with instruments. Any jackstay would have to be jointed in parts. Fortunately I do not have a tent, but I would expect that it would make it worse for others.Plus regardless of boat size they all get narrow at the bow so the jackstay will be near to the edges at the bow. So what is the saving there? Central jackstays sound a good idea but are not practical in many boats.
 
I agree with DB .. short lines can be a liability ... but it also depends on the location and setup / design around you.

I like the double hook type .. you have a long line to one hook and a second hook on the line giving shorter tether.

But strange thing is - my lines are all single hook jobs on board ! I actually made them myself after measuring / adjusting to suit.

Palm .. Needle ... Wax sailmakers thread ... UV resistant safety webbing ... and sprung hooks ... Took about an hour to make up a set of four. ( At same time I added thigh straps to the inflatable LJ's .. with same gear).
 
I don't have any problem with a 3-hook tether, the spare hook just clips to the chest strap of the LJ until needed.
I normally use the short tether when a job needs both hands and it's a bit bouncy.

The main point though is to get out there and have a go at MOB drill. Try different methods.
It's great practice for getting to know how the boat handles.
 
Refueler said:
Palm .. Needle ... Wax sailmakers thread ... UV resistant safety webbing ... and sprung hooks ... Took about an hour to make up a set of four. ( At same time I added thigh straps to the inflatable LJ's .. with same gear).
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I have made mine from rope suitably spliced. But my personal LJ thigh strap is a sail tie. I like to be able to adjust the length quickly & tie it at the front with a couple of half hitches. That being said I was down below one day leaning against the sink & did it up prior to going on deck. i could not move- I had looped it round the sink tap behind me.
Those for the crew are commercial ones with load indicators.
 
Daydream believer said:
I have made mine from rope suitably spliced. But my personal LJ thigh strap is a sail tie. I like to be able to adjust the length quickly & tie it at the front with a couple of half hitches. That being said I was down below one day leaning against the sink & did it up prior to going on deck. i could not move- I had looped it round the sink tap behind me.
Those for the crew are commercial ones with load indicators.
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Actually the thigh straps have those plastic snap together clasps that you press sides to release. I looked at ones in the Chandlers and thought ... whats special about them !! Went home ... and in an evening all done.

If I was to do them again .... I might use the double side high strength velcro instead of the webbing and clasps.
 
My
Daydream believer said:
I am not taking the p..s here so please do not take it as such this is leading to genuine point ( eventually)--- but think about what you have written
If someone is on the side deck clipped to a jackstay on the side deck then allowing for the jackstay lifting a bit that would mean that your line could not be longer than 2 ft ( ie the height of guardrail above a taught jackstay) because any longer than that & your body could be clipped on but hanging over the side.
So you are telling me that your lifeline is 2ft long ( being the approx distance from jackstay to top of guard rail)- is that it? -- see where I am coming from?
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You make a good point, which I have taken into account. First, my jackstays have been repositioned to be as far from the gunwhale as possible; they run over the top of the cabin.. Second, I would have to clear the top of the guard-rails to go overboard; I could theoretically roll underneath the bottom wire, but it's unlikely. I am considering adding netting to remove that possibility. That said, I use two - legged lifelines, each leg of which is about a metre long. Using that and the jackstays I can reach any part of the deck of my boat without being unclipped. The relatively short lines mean I can clip on and brace myself against the lifeline if that is convenient.
 
Daydream believer said:
Ok before any one replies to my earlier post & because I do not want to start winding Antartic Pilot up I will explain why I asked about the term "short tether" & why I think it is wrong to suggest one...…

So now someone is going to suggest tripple hook harness.....
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I'll suggest using an adjustable tether.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
My
You make a good point, which I have taken into account. First, my jackstays have been repositioned to be as far from the gunwhale as possible; they run over the top of the cabin.. Second, I would have to clear the top of the guard-rails to go overboard; I could theoretically roll underneath the bottom wire, but it's unlikely. I am considering adding netting to remove that possibility. That said, I use two - legged lifelines, each leg of which is about a metre long. Using that and the jackstays I can reach any part of the deck of my boat without being unclipped. The relatively short lines mean I can clip on and brace myself against the lifeline if that is convenient.
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It would be interesting to see the layout of your boat. But to be able to stand and have a hook point, whether it be a jackstay or hook point within less than 1 metre from your chest, when standing,of wherever you are- and still give you freedom of movement is very clever. How does it work on the foredeck? You should share it with us please
 
Refueler said:
Don't know if it was shop bought or not - but friend of mine with a boat in UK had a tether with an adjustable strap so he could have long or short .. similar to a bag strap ...
Wouldn't be hard to make ...
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I would not want one myself- I would like a link to a commercial one though- but I have made ordinary tethers for my own use only
Actually, if you think about the load that might be applied, it could be quite hard to make one that is easily adjustable. If one recalls the case of the sailor who drowned because the hook broke, it highlights the shock load one can expect. Is a bit of plastic any good for anything ,other than looping up some spare end?
 
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Given the general agreement that recovery will be difficult at best, my take on it would be to set up my boat so there's no need to leave the cockpit to drop/furl sails, reef, etc. Include a downhaul on the main, so you can get it down all the way and tie it down. People argue about the pros and cons of lazyjacks like they do about anchors, but they do mean you can get rid of the main in a hurry if you need to, even in a rough sea without risk. Yes, you can still go over putting lines & fenders out, but the crew can learn to do that before you even leave the pontoon, leaving the experienced one on the helm.

That will reduce the likelihood of an MOB significantly. Milady is disabled so, under sail, there's no way she could manage the boat to get back and pick me up, so her MOB procedure is to press that big red button and heave to. Basically, I'm singlehanded, but have an intelligent autopilot.

I'm reminded of a safety briefing quoted here a good few years ago, "This is your lifeline. Use it and it'll keep you on board. This is your lifejacket, use it and it will help the RNLI to recover your body if you do go over." One can argue the first bit - or just accept that there are limitations, but the second bit is far too close to the truth for me to risk an unexpected swim.
 
Stemar said:
Given the general agreement that recovery will be difficult at best, my take on it would be to set up my boat so there's no need to leave the cockpit to drop/furl sails, reef, etc. Include a downhaul on the main, so you can get it down all the way and tie it down. People argue about the pros and cons of lazyjacks like they do about anchors, but they do mean you can get rid of the main in a hurry if you need to, even in a rough sea without risk. Yes, you can still go over putting lines & fenders out, but the crew can learn to do that before you even leave the pontoon, leaving the experienced one on the helm.

That will reduce the likelihood of an MOB significantly. Milady is disabled so, under sail, there's no way she could manage the boat to get back and pick me up, so her MOB procedure is to press that big red button and heave to. Basically, I'm singlehanded, but have an intelligent autopilot.

I'm reminded of a safety briefing quoted here a good few years ago, "This is your lifeline. Use it and it'll keep you on board. This is your lifejacket, use it and it will help the RNLI to recover your body if you do go over." One can argue the first bit - or just accept that there are limitations, but the second bit is far too close to the truth for me to risk an unexpected swim.
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I wonder if that would in fact increase the risk?
One day you will have to go forwards, and if you rarely do it, you won't be very good at it.

It's interesting to watch the way people move around boats. People who've been around boats a long time are prepared for the boat to move. They know what the issues are and 'instinctively' act to reduce them.
 
lw395 said:
I wonder if that would in fact increase the risk?
One day you will have to go forwards, and if you rarely do it, you won't be very good at it.

It's interesting to watch the way people move around boats. People who've been around boats a long time are prepared for the boat to move. They know what the issues are and 'instinctively' act to reduce them.
Click to expand...

There'a an old saying ... 'one hand for the ship' ..... meaning you never move about without at least one hand keeping you safe ..
 
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