MOB in a self-tacker with an inexperienced crew

It would be interesting to see the layout of your boat. But to be able to stand and have a hook point, whether it be a jackstay or hook point within less than 1 metre from your chest, when standing,of wherever you are- and still give you freedom of movement is very clever. How does it work on the foredeck? You should share it with us please
My jackstays run to the forward end or the toe-rail, which is an aluminium extrusion forming part of the hull-topsides joint and perhaps the strongest point on the boat. Once clipped on to the jackstay, I have free movement everywhere forward of the cockpit; in fact better freedom of movement than was available with a longer safety line and the jackstays running along the toe-rail, as I then had to unclip to get round the shrouds. The least secure location is the foredeck, where the jackstay approaches and then terminates at the toe-rail, but the freeboard at that point is more than a metre from the toe-rail, and more than that from the top of the guard-rails and pushpit. I use an integrated harness and lifejacket (the newer compact style which fits higher on the chest), with an attachment point roughly at my breastbone and double crotch straps, so I can be reasonably sure that I will hang from it with my legs down; my centre of gravity is well below the attachment point. There is rarely any reason to be on the foredeck under-way - all my reefing lines, sheets and halliards come back to the cockpit; it is only when deploying my cruising chute that I need to be forward, and of course that only happens in benign conditions.

Oh, another factor is that neither my wife nor I are very tall - I am about 5'6 and my wife about 5'2. And I don't mean a metre as an exact measurement - I haven't measured them exactly, but they are around a metre long; perhaps 4' (sorry - mixed units!). Further, the jackstay runs at cabin top height for most of its length. And our freeboard is high - I've never measured it, but even amidships it must be a metre, and more at bow and stern. At the stern, when standing on the sugar scoop a few inches above the waterline, the deck/hull joint is at chest level.

None of this provides absolute security - there ain't no such thing. I don't rely on any of this working and observe the golden rule of one hand for the boat and one for myself; like a mountaineer, I try to have three points fixed at all times. But I have done my best to ensure that as far as practicable given my style of sailing and the design of the boat I have reduced the potential for an MOB as far as possible. It's also not a static thing; I am constantly on the lookout for ways to improve things; for example, last year I started to work on single-line reefing for my mainsail as the previous system didn't work well for single-handed or two-up sailing, requiring a hand at the mast and a hand working halliards in the cockpit. Not sure I've cracked that yet!

I realize that my style won't work for everyone - a racing crew or even a larger cruising crew would find it very limiting, and there would be a high likelihood of lifelines getting tangled etc. But as I sail single-handed or two-up mostly, it works fine for us. And given that I am sure that in our circumstances a MOB would have a very high chance of resulting in a fatality, it is something both my wife and I take very seriously and constantly look for ways to make it more secure.
 
Yellow Ballad is absolutely spot on. Your inexperienced crew will have no chance of handling the boat under this kind of pressure and may well kill you if they try to move the boat close to you to get you on board.

Make sure you all wear correctly maintained auto inflating life jackets and that the crew know how to call a mayday.
One hand for the boat, one hand for you.
 
And how about if I fall overboard the first time I take them out whilst teaching them? It's all well and good saying that, but everyone goes through an inexperienced period whilst they're learning!
TL;DR so apologies if someone's said this:

Your first hour, at least, should be teaching them to handle the boat under power including rescuing a fender a couple of times.

Then you can think about getting the sails up and sailing a bit. I leave the engine running, and then get them taking down the sails,, and putting them up again a couple times. There's no reason in all of this why you should go overboard, if you're moving around outside the cockpit wear a short harness even if its inconvenient.

Then practise rescuing a fender from sails up and let them practice that.

Don't forget when they are practising you have to stay out of the way and let them make mistakes.

Only when they are confident, or at least familiar, should you consider sailing off anywhere and risking going overboard. Although as someone else said, don't put yourself in that situation.

I know someone has said this but make sure they're full briefed on sending Mayday (the procedure should be pinned next to the radio), you're going to need to go to hospital even in the unlikely event they get you on board, but more importantly you need to give the RNLI a chance to get to you before hypothermia sets in and you suffer heart failure.
 
May I ask how many actually truthfully make training of new people on their boats ... ie - first hours doing MOB .. engine and sail handling etc.

I admit - that I know what I should do - but often do not .......... and I do not think I am odd man out on this.
 
May I ask how many actually truthfully make training of new people on their boats ... ie - first hours doing MOB .. engine and sail handling etc.

I admit - that I know what I should do - but often do not .......... and I do not think I am odd man out on this.
If I know they'll be with me regularly, then that's what I do. If its a one off pleasure trip for them then no, maybe 1 hour under power as they always seem to like playing with the boat.
 
I tried teaching the wife ..... she just said I shouted at her.
Had a pal come on to teach her ... his voice was LOUDER .. she listened to him -said he 'understood her and didn't shout' .... she still didn't cotton on to it !!
 
May I ask how many actually truthfully make training of new people on their boats ... ie - first hours doing MOB .. engine and sail handling etc.

I admit - that I know what I should do - but often do not .......... and I do not think I am odd man out on this.
Not me.
First time out, I get beginners to have a go at steering, get the basics of sheeting the sails.
If I'm taking out people who think they can sail, then I push them with MOB drill or spinnaker exercises.
But I generally don't go out with beginners, unless I have SWMBO on board or A.N.Other who is reasonably competent.
Maybe I'm lucky but I can normally find someone in the club bar to come out for a couple of hours if I want to take some beginners out for a sail.
 
Lots of good theories going on on this thread.
Personally, as someone who normally sails solo, if I have and crew, experienced or not, I move around the boat as if I were solo.
I try to stay in the cockpit, if I have to go forward I think through what I am going to do and how I'm going to do it, then I don't move a hand or foot without knowing where I am going to place it.
I do nothing in a hurry.
Inexperienced crew are passengers, it will take them at least a summer to get to know anything about the boat and be anything like a 'crew', then next year you will have to start all over again as they will have forgotten most of what they learned.
 
then next year you will have to start all over again as they will have forgotten most of what they learned.
I have taken people away for a fortnight. They have all been sailors with their own boats or at least dayboats & even at the end of the week one finds that they still cannot remember things like, which rope is the main halyard or the genoa sheet. So I fully concur with your comment. So MOB drill is usually a waste of time although I always have a safety talk before we go so at least they know how to operate the radio by reading the instructions beneath the chart table lid. Plus my rule about wearing LJ & hooking on
 
I wonder if that would in fact increase the risk?
One day you will have to go forwards, and if you rarely do it, you won't be very good at it.

It's interesting to watch the way people move around boats. People who've been around boats a long time are prepared for the boat to move. They know what the issues are and 'instinctively' act to reduce them.
Fair point, but I'm used to moving about the boat and, even in calm water, Portsmouth Harbour & the Solent are full of boats who don't realise or don't care about what their wake can do to a small yacht, so I keep myself ready for it. There's no such thing as absolute security, but reducing the number of times I need to go on deck to the minimum, especially in bad weather, reduces the opportunities for sudden swims. I've had two in my sailing life, one from a pontoon and once on a mooring; never, thank God, at sea. I regard going overboard at sea in UK or colder waters, especially if things are a bit bumpy, as an excellent opportunity to shuffle off this mortal coil. Any other outcome requires a bit of luck, even on the best run boats.
 
Fair point, but I'm used to moving about the boat and, even in calm water, Portsmouth Harbour & the Solent are full of boats who don't realise or don't care about what their wake can do to a small yacht, so I keep myself ready for it. There's no such thing as absolute security, but reducing the number of times I need to go on deck to the minimum, especially in bad weather, reduces the opportunities for sudden swims. I've had two in my sailing life, one from a pontoon and once on a mooring; never, thank God, at sea. I regard going overboard at sea in UK or colder waters, especially if things are a bit bumpy, as an excellent opportunity to shuffle off this mortal coil. Any other outcome requires a bit of luck, even on the best run boats.

Solent :

Dropping sails outside Cowes hbr ... and it was one of those days when you get that buffeting wind from it bouncing of the East hills back ...

Wife grabbing mainsail as it drops ... bunch of JetSkiers ... one with passenger decides to do a sweeping turn actually clipping side of our boat - causing huge wave to be thrown over wife and deck and into cabin ... Wife manages to hang onto the sail and boom ...

Idiot on Jet Ski skoots off laughing. We see him do it to another boat on way to mainland.

I call Coastguard and report the incident .. other boats call in as well ... I am not only one who offers to 'prosecute' ...

As I understand it - Police were waiting at Lee on Solent slip where their trailers were .....
 
Let fly headsail & main sheets, start engine, get upwind of MoB & use astern/forward to allow boat to drift down to casualty, recover.
No sail handling, just sails which might flog a bit, simple.
The problem with this is you are possibly going to get a fore sheet around the prop. Also a whack on the head from a swinging boom. Trying to get the guy back onboard is another matter.
 
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The problem with this is you are going to get a fore sheet around the prop. Also a whack on the head from a swinging boom. Far better to do things properly and in a seamanship like manner.
How, are you going to get anything around the prop?
Its also a self tacker, how long is the sheet?
Explain pls, how an inexperienced crew, are going to "do things properly and in a seaman like manner"? Your MoB would soon be a corpse.
 
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