MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[jfm]

With the railings, seems to me you gotta decide whether you want (1) a permanent job, or (2) something to get you going for now with a view to having s/s custom made in 2-3 yrs time

If #1, why not defer it, and for now just spray the ali parts in silver the same colour as the raw ali. Put up with the imperfections while researching a good tig welder who can come down and make the custom s/s jobs one winter. Easy to touch up with aerosol if the ali gets scratched

For the cones, when you eventually do the full s/s job, you'd need to get a set custom CNC machined but you can shop around (Poland?) for that at a good price. Or perhaps or just buy catalogue eg http://www.premierfittings.co.uk/Stainless-Steel-90-Degree-Tapered-Stanchion-Base-p/47521.htm. (I do not know how your cones attach to the iroko rail)

Another alternative maybe next year is make all new s/s rails all from catalogue bases and tees, with no welding. The rails themselves would be made from a couple of 5m lengths of 25mm (or 30mm would be nicer) dia s/s each side. Bending at the bow is easy. The catalogue tees maybe don't look as great as custom welded, but plenty of builders (Hatteras comes to mind) use them extensively. Meantime, as above, just spray what you have in silver paint

 

[jfm]

If you cost it out using catalogue Tees and cones, nice ones, in 25mm dia, you get:

17 cones @ €20
17 Tees @ €12
17 stanchions = 10metres @€14/metre mirror polished
port+ stbd rails = 20 metres, ditto

Total is €1,000, which is a chunk of money but will last for ever compared with €€€ for spray painting and stuff. You might be able to beat those prices as they are "retail"

Also if everyone on here posted you their 25mm dia offcuts you'd have the 17 stanchions right away!

The way to join say two x 5m lengths, or three x 3m lengths, when making the side rails, is to put the butt joint inside the Tee obviously AND insert (with glue) a 500mm length of 22mm inside the joint. Works really well

 

[vas]

Very true John

I was so intrigued at the cones and regulating mechanism that I've probably spent 250euro already on the cones alone!
not counting the endless hours of redrilling, tapping, sanding and polishing them either.
Talking about throwing good money after bad

Cones attach to the iroko with a M10 ss through bolt that either goes through the iroko, underlying pedestal and new ply deck, or only goes through the iroko and pedestal. It IS strong but only a central M10 on each base. I'll have to design something there with a circa 80mm dia base to sit on the iroko, cannot use the standard bases with the two "wings" and M6 holes.

Plenty of decent local fabricators around, but not for now...

I think I'll go with the paint option for now and see how it goes.

cheers

V.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Trim tabs in place, connected, new pipes fitted and secured. Got to do the electrical connection on the lower helm to get them tested. Also need a tiny wee funnel to fill the pump with AFT oil! Hole is around 10mm in dia, wft?

Any good?
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p73875

If you want these I'll pick some up next time I'm in and post them to your Mum if you like.

 

[vas]

Any good?
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p73875

If you want these I'll pick some up next time I'm in and post them to your Mum if you like.

thanks J.

actually I remembered that I have seen domestic wee funnels around the kitchen... Digging on the bottom drawer I found two identical ones with 10mm ending. Will measure and if they fit I'll steal the one

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

JTB,

turns out the trim tabs AFT oil filling hole is around 8mm! Ended up spending the amazing sum of 60eurocent and buying a 60ml syringe with patients feeding ending. Will do nicely and may even survive in the toolbox...

Following the fitting of the passerelle, securing high pressure pipes etc, I cleaned, sanded and repainted the inner part of the transom and refited the transom seating area backplate. Still got to decide where to fit the passerelle control switches though... Was a good thing I removed this backplate as there was some water sipping through under the iroko capping and behind the aluminium sandwitch panel. So now the final bolting of the aluminum panel (following the sanding and varnishing of the iroko capping) will be done on a nice and thick clear silicone backing making sure it's all watertight.

On the lazarette, I'm finishing on the layout of all the new machinery in a way that they don't block access to the existing bits and are not all over the place. Seems that pic two is the favourite atm, with the RO membrane hang in place, the HRO control panel immediately above it and the extremely heavy motor/pump combo under them.
Passerelle (much lighter) motor/pump/relays combo sits in front, pipes routed straight to the transom and out of the way.
Trim tab pipes secured and hidden out of danger to be ripped and the lot looks quite tidy and accessible, very pleased.

Now, one of the two BIG jobs remaining before she's back in the water is the bathing platform. Following pic shows the one PO had built just note the 4 points of support (with 2 through holes on each point)

Gone through completely different approaches, saw a great number of platforms and eventually coming closer to the MM platform construction methodology but with a slight twist (er, 90degree rotation tbh) due to the rather curved transom on MiToS. Following the final sketches, got George to chop a piece of softwood and built a mock of the platform to check. Following pics show an approx 50cm wide by 1.4m long piece.

Some stats first:
Transom width at platform height is 3.6m. Exhausts protrude another 120mm each side. Not planning on extending the platform over them in order to avoid the issues that BertramDriver experienced (although to a lesser extend as his exhausts were more central to the transom than mine.
Length of platform at 1.3 to 1.4m (based on the available size of teak beams I have already bought last year)
So platform will be 3.6X1.4(max)
Decided on 20X25mm (WxH) teak strips glued together one to another with small blocks of identical sized teak (in section) between them to create the gaps. OK, difficult to explain, just look at the following pics!

Design considerations:
don't want a lot of weight back there, sized the calculated weight for the design in the pics to approx. 70kg which I find OK. THAT IS THE TEAK DECK ONLY!
now I need a support structure
and I need a way to glue the pieces together reliably.
and I wont even consider drilling every single piece and bolting it to an iroko framework underneath, it's not fun and it's imho bad practice.

So regarding the actual teak deck, plan is to built it in 8 (most likely) pieces approx. 45cm wide each. Then assemble on site. Each long 20X25X1.4m piece will have three holes (probably 4mm) and a through brass bolt. The souvlaki approach will help in gluing the pieces together and tightening them without pieces slipping out of place. It will be time consuming for sure but less than the drilling, bolting, capping each teak beam in 3 underlying beams! Each 45X140 piece when assembled will be bolted in 6-10 spots to the underlying beams and be done. Means I could possibly do localized repairs if needed.

Regarding the support structure there I still have some problems.
Considering the effectively three strips of "solid" platform that's where the supporting frame will live. I can get 50X80mm section iroko and I can get the transom ending nice and curvy and bolt it securely.
Plan then is to get the four lower holes on the transom with approx. 25mm in dia ss struts that will support the mid beam of iroko in 5points with 8 struts
Finally the aft beam of iroko will be supported from 4points with 6 struts. The four points on the hull will be the thick solid beams that run at the bottom of the transom and where the 900mm long trim ss tabs bolt to. Means that these struts will be a good 1.8m long but wont receive too much (if any) bending moments loading, just straight compression. May have to get them thicker 30mm or so.

Concluding (got to go!) I'm quite happy with the actual teak deck (some may complain that 20mm gaps are a bit too much for kids toes, I doubt it and anyway my kids are closing on me son at 14 is just 60-70mm short) but the support is still on the air so to speak
Outer supports may be a bit in the way which can be handled with shifting the struts so that you don't bump your legs when coming close to climbing
Any ideas or concerns welcomed as always.

cheers

V.

 

[MikeBrazier]

Thanks for the update Vas.

The platform is going to look absolutely superb.

Mike.

 

[BartW]

Cones attach to the iroko with a M10 ss through bolt that either goes through the iroko, underlying pedestal and new ply deck, or only goes through the iroko and pedestal. It IS strong but only a central M10 on each base. I'll have to design something there with a circa 80mm dia base to sit on the iroko, cannot use the standard bases with the two "wings" and M6 holes.
.

you cound probably fix the sockets with brass screws like these: (M10 thread inside)

these are the parts of our railing sockets:

I know folks who might know where we can find these parts in Italy, If you want I'll asc them

 

[vas]

Thanks for the update Vas.

The platform is going to look absolutely superb.

Mike.

thanks Mike,

have to say though that after George's soulvaking the pieces in the photos, epoxying then together and bringing it home for "real" testing, all members of the family complained that it's rather harsh and the gaps seem to be the culprit. What worries me most is that the complaints were with dry feet, if coming out of the water with skin softened the effect is going to be worse!
So, back to George to route a small fillet all around and will be tested again today. If happy (I doubt!), will go on with this 20mm teak 20mm gap, if not will drop to 20mm teak, 17mm gap or so. Don't want to overdo it as I'll have to sacrifice another teak beam from the deck laying project.

you cound probably fix the sockets with brass screws like these: (M10 thread inside)

[removed pics as running out of pic space on this post!]
I know folks who might know where we can find these parts in Italy, If you want I'll asc them

Thanks Bart, what you're forgetting though is that your stanchion and supports were for v.short tubing and solid capping. Mine are 650mm high jobs and torque and forces on them are considerably higher meaning that I cannot get away with this M10 screwey thingy. Anyway, I've got serious solid supports installed in the capping and under the iroco so I'm not worried there. Actually I'm planning on varnishing the stbrd side today so that I can start fitting the stbrd side cones as well and eventually get the railing in place this week.

On with the update:

Lazarette bulkhead and some other spots sorted and painted, watermaker layout sorted, watermaker prefilters (3 stage job) fitted, skinfitting hole done, everything ready for fitting.

Had a go at servicing the port engine, that's the one that had the stuck (and now rebuilt) turbo, so decided that after a good clean and dusting I'd remove the 4 heat exchangers, open, check, clean and refit with new seals/O-rings. The idea is that I'll do that ONLY on the port engine so that I have a measure of what the engines should perform and how. Meanwhile I learn how to do it and figure out any difficulties (plus I get a proper stock of O-rings for further servicing)
Took me 6h to remove all four exchangers (in two sessions) and I estimate a further 6h cleaning them properly (done it) and reassembling them.
Then I need to paint the endcaps and pipe outlets before properly cleaning the rubber hoses greasing the joints and refitting them.
Need a few more O-rings so project will be completed over the week.

Overall comment is that they seem to be reasonably clean considering that (stupidly) I'd not flush the system with fresh water when pulling on the hard 3yrs ago.
Pics per exchanger follow:

Compressed air heat exchanger:

gearbox oil heat exchanger:
(easier and faster to remove, clean and refit and less fouled of the four)

engine oil heat exchanger:
(easy generally, but a bitch to remove the 6endcap allen headed ss screws)

coolant heat exchanger:
(most calcium deposits inside, lots of antifreeze gel and colourful deposits outside the matrix)

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Good stuff Vas, yes the heat exchangers look OK, but the right thing to do to check them out. The inlet hose to the water pumps on both Rafiki's engines were nearly blocked with calcium deposits when I check last year, but nut sure why this should happen?
Complaints about the bathing platform are less likely when you are actually on the water, as the younger amongst us will be so keen to swim that all other things appear less important. You can always drape a towel or two on the platform when people ar swimming too?

 

[MapisM]

all members of the family complained that it's rather harsh and the gaps seem to be the culprit.
What worries me most is that the complaints were with dry feet, if coming out of the water with skin softened the effect is going to be worse!
So, back to George to route a small fillet all around and will be tested again today. If happy (I doubt!), will go on with this 20mm teak 20mm gap, if not will drop to 20mm teak, 17mm gap or so. Don't want to overdo it as I'll have to sacrifice another teak beam from the deck laying project.

Vas, do you still have the pics I sent you back in Nov 2013? Btw, blimey, doesn't time fly? I couldn't believe that was 1.5 yrs ago, while checking my mailbox....
Anyway, what I meant to say is that even if the gap in my boat is a couple of mm or 3 short of 20, it's still very perceivable, barefoot.
I wouldn't really call it harsh TBH, and I never had the impression that it got worse with wet feet.
But I fear that if you are aiming at a very smooth sensation, you could end up reducing the gap too much - maybe 10mm or so.
Frankly speaking, I'd rather stick to what you already did, also because rafiki is spot on: if your family would have tried it while anchored in a nice spot in glorious weather, I bet that they wouldn't have had any complaints...
Besides, I believe that in order to get a smoother sensation on the feet, a bit of sanding along the sharp borders of each plank (I suppose that's what you meant by routing a small fillet) might be more effective that a gap reduction.
But if it isn't, don't hold your breath for a smaller gap...

 

[vas]

Good stuff Vas, yes the heat exchangers look OK, but the right thing to do to check them out. The inlet hose to the water pumps on both Rafiki's engines were nearly blocked with calcium deposits when I check last year, but nut sure why this should happen?
Complaints about the bathing platform are less likely when you are actually on the water, as the younger amongst us will be so keen to swim that all other things appear less important. You can always drape a towel or two on the platform when people ar swimming too?

skin fittings, seacocks, pipes, rawfilters are all new (to be installed)
Just need son to come and help in painting the bilges before I get them all in place
A good thing that I dismantled the lot, now I have a better understanding of were it's likely to have more salt deposits and tbh I'll work the drain bolts (quite a few around!) and undo them for winter next time.

Vas, do you still have the pics I sent you back in Nov 2013? Btw, blimey, doesn't time fly? I couldn't believe that was 1.5 yrs ago, while checking my mailbox....
Anyway, what I meant to say is that even if the gap in my boat is a couple of mm or 3 short of 20, it's still very perceivable, barefoot.
I wouldn't really call it harsh TBH, and I never had the impression that it got worse with wet feet.
But I fear that if you are aiming at a very smooth sensation, you could end up reducing the gap too much - maybe 10mm or so.
Frankly speaking, I'd rather stick to what you already did, also because rafiki is spot on: if your family would have tried it while anchored in a nice spot in glorious weather, I bet that they wouldn't have had any complaints...
Besides, I believe that in order to get a smoother sensation on the feet, a bit of sanding along the sharp borders of each plank (I suppose that's what you meant by routing a small fillet) might be more effective that a gap reduction.
But if it isn't, don't hold your breath for a smaller gap...

P, yep, got the pics, that's how I got the dimensions for mine
the gap on yours are around 16-17mm mine works out at 20mm which I much prefer if the problem is solved. Still waiting for George to bring the test piece back (yes breaking the sharp cuts on each plank is what I mean). Will let you know what's the final decision.

Exploring the bathing platforms (although all are grp!) around the yard I noticed that the ones in transoms sloping like mine and yours introduce gaps at the platform-transom joint. Was thinking of doing something similar in order to extend the platform closer to 1.5m or even a bit more by extending the "gap" teak pieces and get them reach the transom. Haven't decided yet how, need a few goes in AutoCAD for that in the evening.

The epoxied piece looks like this:

and yes, kitchen tiles are large, 40X40cm.
Was planning to have the wide solid strip on the transom side, if I go for the longer gap pieces, I can easily extend another 15cm. Will just need 2 securing rods (or souvlaki as I call it) so that it wont collapse if for some reason this inner part is stressed. Looks like it will need a transom mounted piece following the whole of the transom. That will be iroco and will have to be done this week by George so that we can have a proper form of the curvature for the workshop modeling and assembly

BTW on the general progress, stbrd toerail capping sanded from 80 to 180, screwcaps installed, sanded and the whole thing is ready for varnishing. Was foolish enough to think that I'd do it in one morning, 5h later I was too knackered from the sun to do the varnishing. Will probably do in the evening.

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

just back from 6 coats of Owatrol on the stbrd side toerail capping.
bathing platform mock is back and indeed feels much better to the foot with the edges "broken"
For sure 20mm teak 20mm gap!
Cutting the pieces during the week, setting up a template for the transom curvature and the construction begins!

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

another short update with a few Qs

cleaned from salt deposits and surface rust, assembled and spraypainted (well I'd call that extensive touching up) the three heat exchangers that were completely removed from the engine.
All looks and feels fine with new O-rings and gaskets ready to be reassembled.

However, on cleaning the rubber hoses (straight connections 60-100mm long, elbows and a fancy double elbow thing) I noticed that one out of 8 or so was rather hard and on pressing it about it cracked a bit on the side. So I'll go hunting for rubber hoses.
First Q, do they have to be special ones, I mean it's only coolish sea water going through them, no serious pressures, nothing. Could I use silicone ones, is there a culprit?

Further, on the exhaust manifold lives the wastegate which from what I gather when it vents, it throws exhaust gases to the exhaust elbow. Now, port engine being the one with the stuck turbo, same seawater or whatever that rusted solid the exhaust turbine came down the wastegate exhaust hole and rusted it solid. Trying to unblock it proved impossible so I tried to remove the wastegate and look inside. This also proved impossible as one of the bleeding 3 allen headed M6 screws is not giving in no matter how much heat, sweat and swear I've thrown at it. So 10pm last night decided that exhaust manifold has to come off and go to the machinist for treatment. First to remove the screw, second to remove the wastegate itself and mainly avoid having all the gunk and small pieces of rust and carbon deposits back in 5th cylinder exhaust valve. Surprisingly only needed to undo three extra M8 before getting this rather heavy item at hand. Currently at the boot of my car going to the machine shop ASAP.
Second Q, without having much experience of marinised engines, is that a common fault when turbos rust and what are the chances of reviving the wastegate? Not so keen on getting a new one, but I'm afraid there's going to be some moving metal parts that once cleaned will be rather pitted and looking awful and unable to seal 2bar (without having seen one of these open that is. Car wastegates are usually on the turbo and much different and easy to test.

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Sounds like a couple of Q's for our friend LS1.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Good going Vas, solid progress - well done. Impressed by your stamina, after only six months of my project I was knackered!

 

[vas]

Sounds like a couple of Q's for our friend LS1.

yep, need to find a way to attract his attention though, as looking around the web for IVECO AIFO 8061SRM 33 wastegate hasn't given me something interesting.
My only fear is that corrosion will have attacked the cast manifold which wont enable a new wastegate actuator/valve to seal the hole properly.

Good going Vas, solid progress - well done. Impressed by your stamina, after only six months of my project I was knackered!

thanks J.,

you did an awful mistake going for such a new craft, you should really get something 20+yo and then you'd improve your stamina. Hard work makes you feel so much younger (if and when you ever finish!) plus you save on beer and gym related costs to keep fit

The funny thing is that the engines are 13yo with 500h and I was expecting them not to cause any issues Still a rebuilt turbo for 250euro and possibly a wastegate is not such a big deal. Doubt exhaust manifold gaskets are going to be too expensive and I spent 18euro on O-rings for all heat exchangers for both engines plus a few spares...
All a mater of exhaust elbows vs installation issues from the main IVECO dealer in Athens, nice!

cheers

V.

 

[BartW]

, on cleaning the rubber hoses (straight connections 60-100mm long, elbows and a fancy double elbow thing) I noticed that one out of 8 or so was rather hard and on pressing it about it cracked a bit on the side. So I'll go hunting for rubber hoses.
First Q, do they have to be special ones, I mean it's only coolish sea water going through them, no serious pressures, nothing. Could I use silicone ones, is there a culprit?

.

don't know for sure, just tell you my experience,

the hoses between the strainer and rawwater pump on my engines were the clear plastic type with steel wire in it,
when the surveyor came onboard for the coding, he pointed out that all hoses in the engine room have to have some fire protective rating,
he adviced to use exhaust hose,
so thats what I replaced them with; 2 pieces approx 0,5m 75mm diam (iirc) exhaust hose

 

[RIN]

Hi Vas
I'm sure lots of us are desperate for an update when you can find time. Plus hope the current crisis is not causing a problem with the refurbishment or your work as vice-chancellor at the university

 

[Third mate]

Hi Vas
I'm sure lots of us are desperate for an update when you can find time. Plus hope the current crisis is not causing a problem with the refurbishment or your work as vice-chancellor at the university

+1