PalmaTarga
Active member
It's the berth (lease) holders responsibility in Puerto Portals.
Med mooring - failed ground line shackle
- Thread starter jimmy_the_builder
- Start date
petem
Well-known member
I'd think that fairway distance from my bow to the boat opposite is no more than a couple of boat lengths. So distance from my boat to the main chain is only around 12-15m. I doubt the end of the line is resting on the seabed.
MapisM
Well-known member
All this concept of NOT having the marina fully in charge of the whole "in the water" (for lack of better wording) mooring system sounds totally silly, to me.
Aside from being obviously a rip-off, as if most of you folks wouldn't already be paying a LOT of money, it is also completely illogical.
In my marina (but I'm also aware of many others, at least in IT), when they make the yearly check of the ground lines, the diver also checks everything else: big bottom chains, weights in between them, berth-specific chains, lines - the whole lot.
If it isn't obvious that this is a MUCH more efficient and consistent way to handle that, I don't know what else can be called obvious!
Btw, I suppose there must be some fine print in the contracts you signed, specifying that the ground line maintenance is your responsibility.
Now, if your or other boats would be damaged due to a bow line that let go because not properly maintained, isn't that something the insurance could take as a good excuse for not covering the accident? :ambivalence:
Just wondering - far from wishing this to anyone, of course.
Aside from being obviously a rip-off, as if most of you folks wouldn't already be paying a LOT of money, it is also completely illogical.
In my marina (but I'm also aware of many others, at least in IT), when they make the yearly check of the ground lines, the diver also checks everything else: big bottom chains, weights in between them, berth-specific chains, lines - the whole lot.
If it isn't obvious that this is a MUCH more efficient and consistent way to handle that, I don't know what else can be called obvious!
Btw, I suppose there must be some fine print in the contracts you signed, specifying that the ground line maintenance is your responsibility.
Now, if your or other boats would be damaged due to a bow line that let go because not properly maintained, isn't that something the insurance could take as a good excuse for not covering the accident? :ambivalence:
Just wondering - far from wishing this to anyone, of course.
jimmy_the_builder
Well-known member
The master chain runs down the very approximate centre of the fairway - so probably no more than 10m off my bow at most. So there is very definitely a wear point at the shackle junction between the master chain and the chains that lead up to my own ground lines.
Portofino
Well-known member
Yes well in most the ground tackle is regularly inspected / maintained etc .
But in PV there s some recent political background stuff regarding the new management ( local authorities) .
That might have some play the treatment of JTB ,s predicament??
The management are looking at increasing revenue streams where they can get away with it .
@ JTM is there a berth holders group? If so do they have managements ear ?
You can’t be the only one if the marina ain’t regularly inspecting ground tackle ?
jimmy_the_builder
Well-known member
Aiui it has always been the leaseholders responsibility at PV, even before Vauban21 took over the management. However one 'initiative' that the new management have implemented is to replace all the lazy lines, quai by quai, to colour-coded green/red lines. And then charge the leaseholder for the work - regardless of the condition of the lazy lines that were removed. This is apparently causing some friction.... (they haven't got to my quai yet).
Yes there is a leaseholders association, and I am a member, but they don't seem to have much traction with the new management.
petem
Well-known member
Think I'd rather spend 20p on a couple of red and green cable ties.
MapisM
Well-known member
I disagree, P: forget the colour coded lines.
That's just a side show, though I suppose it's convenient to know what you are handling at any time, rather than only when you reach the cable ties.
The real difference is in the responsibility.
I'd rather pay the marina and know that they are in charge in case of any "bow side failure" (so to speak), rather than be personally responsible for a job I have to pay (and trust) a diver to handle anyhow.
Of course, my first choice would still be for having the marina fully in charge and pay nothing on top of the normal mooring, but at the end of the day whether the total fee is split in different components or is an all-in amount is just a matter of accounting...
That's just a side show, though I suppose it's convenient to know what you are handling at any time, rather than only when you reach the cable ties.
The real difference is in the responsibility.
I'd rather pay the marina and know that they are in charge in case of any "bow side failure" (so to speak), rather than be personally responsible for a job I have to pay (and trust) a diver to handle anyhow.
Of course, my first choice would still be for having the marina fully in charge and pay nothing on top of the normal mooring, but at the end of the day whether the total fee is split in different components or is an all-in amount is just a matter of accounting...
RobWales
Active member
Pleased to update my earlier statement in this thread.....
My monthly maintenance fee (circa 50€) here in Puerto de Mogan on Gran Canaria does cover all costs for ground tackle.
My monthly maintenance fee (circa 50€) here in Puerto de Mogan on Gran Canaria does cover all costs for ground tackle.
petem
Well-known member
I don't disagree that the responsibility is the main point here. To me it's just nuts that Jimmy and others are being made responsible for ground lines. I suspect that if I asked the marina if I am responsible for the ground lines they'd think I was nuts. Whether that's because I'm only an impoverished renter or we're not in rip-off France / Mallorca I don't know.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
The issue for me is the service charge. Like Jimmy, I bought the balance of a lease on my berth and like a lease on a car, the lessee is responsible for all costs of maintenance. If the marina didnt levy a service charge, then I wouldnt have any issue about the cost of maintaining my ground lines but the marina does levy a service charge and quite a heavy one at that, €5k+ a year in my case and I would expect that charge to cover maintenance of the ground lines but apparently it doesnt
jfm
Well-known member
Jimmy the same happened to me around Christmas. One broke at the shackle, and when port diver fixed it he did both and the unbroken one was close to worn through. I had them changed 2011 when I bought the berth, so I would now work on a 6 year lifespan. I agree with you that it was wear as well as corrosion.
The cost is trivial and not worth fretting about. A few hundred euros over 6 years is peanuts.
By the way I get the port diver to change the rope part of my ground lines every 2-3 years, because of chafing and also I wonder about uv affecting the rope fibre. Just to play safe.
You always have 2 lines and they won’t fail together so this isn’t the biggest of deals imho
The cost is trivial and not worth fretting about. A few hundred euros over 6 years is peanuts.
By the way I get the port diver to change the rope part of my ground lines every 2-3 years, because of chafing and also I wonder about uv affecting the rope fibre. Just to play safe.
You always have 2 lines and they won’t fail together so this isn’t the biggest of deals imho