Med boaters easing of 90/ 180

[Portofino]

@ Baggy ^ you are obfuscating this .You are missing vastly the current scan does not do dates .Yep it’ the border IT can’t count .The only way to do dates is manually look at the stamps .The bar code as you say currently ID s “ interesting people “ that’s all .
Hence the return of stamps in the first place to UK folks …just like all 3 P s ….Jezzz !

Also surprising is the Schengen states IT border systems don’t communicate with other . Ie the French have a different list of interesting peeps than say the Spanish and they are in separate silos accessible to each state only at the borders of each .Sure @ a higher policing ( MI5 ish as a U.K. eg ) officially a security service of one nation can politely request info .As with any 3 P nation for that matter btw .eg CIA ask Paris about John Doe etc .
But Spain can’t auto access Paris info held on John Doe from its border .

Couple that with virtually none existent current internal border controls and there’s no problem of the Fr going there own thing or indeed any other Schengen member .Eg the Current Greek and Maltese’s golden passes exactly the same based on property ownership.
What BS you spout Baggy it’s already here in Schengen…..property ownership linked to “ open season “ on stays .
Brussels can’t stop it and hasn’t.

They the existing golden pass holders if they leave the host state just as I have been saying check in / out with a stamp in the normal way and play by the 90/180 rules on top of the host free for all length of stay.
It’s that simple .


Personally I have a mate , Brit btw who splashed out £250 K * on a Athens flat ( fully serviced / rented ) and he keeps his sail boat a nice Swan as it happens in GK waters ….Can stay as long as he likes .Spent under 90/180 this yr in the Adriatic as well to boot .No hassle from other Schengen states on his GK golden pass …iirc sailed for 7 months this year GK based .

As I said the only thing I can’t figure is your motivation for pushing back on the already embedded golden pass thingy .
As Julian’s says Hopefully others Sp + Portugal. in particular will follow suit .

Yummy yummy This cake is going to be so delicious to U.K. holiday home owners .Can’t wait to eat it

* GK golden pass threshold inc to €500 K this yr btw

 

[oldgit]

Yummy yummy This cake is going to be so delicious to U.K. holiday home owners .Can’t wait to eat it

Let them eat cake ?

"The Trussell Trust, an anti-poverty charity that operates a network of food banks across the UK, reported a 37% increase in the number of three-day emergency food parcels it distributed between 31 March 2022 and 1 April 2023, compared to the year before."

New research from Shelter shows at least 271,000 people are recorded as homeless in England, including 123,000 children. Shelter's detailed analysis of official homelessness figures and responses to a Freedom of Information request shows that one in 208 people in England are without a home.

 

[Portofino]

Let them eat cake ?

"The Trussell Trust, an anti-poverty charity that operates a network of food banks across the UK, reported a 37% increase in the number of three-day emergency food parcels it distributed between 31 March 2022 and 1 April 2023, compared to the year before."

New research from Shelter shows at least 271,000 people are recorded as homeless in England, including 123,000 children. Shelter's detailed analysis of official homelessness figures and responses to a Freedom of Information request shows that one in 208 people in England are without a home.

It was a reference to a prominent EU politician circa 2019 in the run up to the event 2020 who said to the U.K. Gov at the time .
” you can’t have your cake and eat it “

Apologies for those who didn’t get it . I should have been more clearer .

 

[dpb]

That’s likely to close .Dealt separately
The purpose of the LSV is for prospects considering full Fr residence , a sort of preamble to permanence .
A the mo temporarily boat accommodation counts .Why shouldn’t it ?
But after a period of time say 5 yrs on the trot with zero intention of relocating to Fr and entering the full Fr taxation, welfare systems ….it pretty clear to me the authorities will close down this currently used loop hole by U.K. boaters .

Presently it’s too immature after “ D Day “ .As time goes by they will realise the let’s face it call it abuse and deal with it .Close it down .
Say a boats fine for say 2 yrs not indefinitely to live on to find permanent accommodation and residence etc .

As far as the paper work they will inho only want your property tax code .It’s all on line now anyhow in place .No paper needed .Just you passport to link you and anyone else on the title to the property.

Probably a spouse inc if only one is on the title . Like Schengen treat a spouses with EU passports in that only one need have one not both .

But it’s zero hassle to add family members to the property title should that be required.

eg Mr 160 ftr Sunseeker buyer , buys a pied de Terre in both his wife , adult kids and his names from day 1 .
A a fraction of the berth costs bear in mind !

I believe that you may be correct if refering to the VLS-TS visa. (6 months to a year, normally). Which is designed to lead to a resibence permit.
However, we obtain a VLS visa (6 months max) which is for, amongst other things " stay for an extended period for tourist or personal reasons". Proof of accomodation can be hotel, gite, fieinds....... boat...etc. No limit to re issues, just needs 6 months between visa periods. It works for us, but just a faff.

 

[dpb]

Just to add that my understanding of the proposal was simply that proof of being a second home owner would fast track the application for the VLS visa........ somehow.

 

[Portofino]

So hear this .I have posted this previous on here so where ?
We left the U.K. June via Hull / Rotterdam ferry heading for CH ( another property btw ) to cut the grass etc .
Then onwards to Italy to boat etc , with a trip to Antibes our Fr holiday home squeezed in .

Some time later August rocked up a Calais euro tunnel and while in the passport control queue Wife holding the PP s opened at relevant page as you do noticed her stamp in was June , but mine was dated 4 ie April .
Yet we arrived together.We had all the supporting documentation tickets etc .Well I pad stuff saved no paper as such .

In effect my stamp indicated overstay .

The Fr Douanes did not notice , sure they scanned it , stamped me out without reading the “ in ‘ stamp .They just waved us on through nothing flagged up .

A few metres down the line I told the U.K. customs guy , we showed him the stamp in my PP .
I specifically asked him if the scan held date data , bearing in mind the Fr had just scanned it .
He told nope …he told me what I told you in post #21 .Ie data bases are not linked each state had its own lists of “ interesting “ peeps . The only way to calculate stay time is manually looking at stamps if you enter one state and leave another .The Dutch did not tell the Fr we were “ in “ . Nor have the Fr access to the Dutch system either .French did not read the in date .

He told us to contact the Dutch ( issued the stamp ) on return .
So via P + O ferries we got through and the Dutch said take a red pen , it was a red stamp that day and turn the 4 into a 6 or 8 , what ever you like .

There’s no interconnected data base EU wide holding date info .Hence stamps .

 

[Portofino]

Just to add that my understanding of the proposal was simply that proof of being a second home owner would fast track the application for the VLS visa........ somehow.

Hmm .
KISS .

I think remove the embassy and VISA element completely. That’s one of the briefs .

Something like this ——- On line owners will link there PPs to there Fr property .
Using existing numbers on both doc s .

Done once .So while your names on the eq of Fr land reg you are exempted from the 90/180 while in France .
The Fr might create for themselves a separate date base of U.K. Fr property owners none residents ..So no hassle at the border . Assuming any one ever looks at the stamps .

Sell it and you drop off automatically when the property is transferred.Like any deed sale .

No need to as baggy keeps banging on about to ever share this with other Schengen states or even discuss with Brussels .

Stil stamped in / out as I keep saying

 

[billskip]

37% increase in the number of three-day emergency food parcels it distributed between 31 March 2022 and 1 April 2023,

What's the corruption %?

 

[Portofino]

What's the corruption %?

Heard a lot of students go out on a extra Razz on the WE , spend up then ( figured out how to get accepted) to for a food parcel .

 

[Tranona]

Hmm .
KISS .

I think remove the embassy and VISA element completely. That’s one of the briefs .

Something like this ——- On line owners will link there PPs to there Fr property .
Using existing numbers on both doc s .

Done once .So while your names on the eq of Fr land reg you are exempted from the 90/180 while in France .
The Fr might create for themselves a separate date base of U.K. Fr property owners none residents ..So no hassle at the border . Assuming any one ever looks at the stamps .

Sell it and you drop off automatically when the property is transferred.Like any deed sale .

No need to as baggy keeps banging on about to ever share this with other Schengen states or even discuss with Brussels .

Stil stamped in / out as I keep saying

You really do have a fertile imagination. You have no idea (like the rest of us) what the proposed French legislation will be, only that the aim is to link longer stays in France with second home ownership rather than tourism (and other specific reasons) as it is at the moment.

Not sure what you hope to achieve by making up your own interpretation of how it might operate and how individuals might make use of it, when it is all guesswork on your part and much of that is based on your misunderstanding of many aspects of of the laws and rules governing movements within the Schengen region.

 

[Portofino]

You really do have a fertile imagination. You have no idea (like the rest of us) what the proposed French legislation will be, only that the aim is to link longer stays in France with second home ownership rather than tourism (and other specific reasons) as it is at the moment.

Not sure what you hope to achieve by making up your own interpretation of how it might operate and how individuals might make use of it, when it is all guesswork on your part and much of that is based on your misunderstanding of many aspects of of the laws and rules governing movements within the Schengen region.

It’s all there in the link ( and a few others as days pass ) .
One plank is to KISS it out of embassy work .Why wouldn’t they ?


Golden pass is not new btw .Works fine in other Schengen states as I have eluded to .
No wheel invention going on .

 

[billskip]

Not sure what you hope to achieve by making up your own interpretation of how it might operate

It's a forum....forums are for discussion....its not as if you have never made up your own interpretation of people's posts.
He may not be expressing his opinion as you may like, but at least he is being optimistic.

 

[Tranona]

It’s all there in the link ( and a few others as days pass ) .
One plank is to KISS it out of embassy work .Why wouldn’t they ?


Golden pass is not new btw .Works fine in other Schengen states as I have eluded to .
No wheel invention going on .

But what is being proposed is not a "golden pass" in the way you have described. Everything you say is pure speculation until the actual legislation is passed (or not).

 

[Tranona]

It's a forum....forums are for discussion....its not as if you have never made up your own interpretation of people's posts.
He may not be expressing his opinion as you may like, but at least he is being optimistic.

Not averse to discussion - just needs to be connected with reality to be believable. You are right - almost everything I object to is opinion and unrelated to the known "facts" on the subject. Of course as there are few actual facts, it is open house for fertile imaginations. Poster has a habit of constructing his own world that differs from the real. Nothing wrong in that as we all fantasise at times but don't expect to be taken seriously.

 

[Martxer]

If this comes in it will be a big positive to a lot of brits - hopefully other countries will do similar

90-day cap for Britons was discussed in London, Spain could follow French move to scrap it

 

[Portofino]

I will be asking Baggy and Tranona to choose my cake to eat ….metaphorically speaking .

It obvious to me what’s gonna happen .

 

[billskip]

just needs to be connected with reality to be believable.

Some people believe in god.......

 

[MapisM]

Some people believe in god.......

I'd call believing in the internet (forums included) as even more wishful thinking than believing in God...

 

[billskip]

I'd call believing in the internet (forums included) as even more wishful thinking than believing in God...

Absolutely....after all we all only believe (or not) what someone else says/tells us.
It all begins for most at school, the sheep among us have to believe some subjects otherwise they fail their exams ...

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Hmm .
KISS .

I think remove the embassy and VISA element completely. That’s one of the briefs .

Something like this ——- On line owners will link there PPs to there Fr property .
Using existing numbers on both doc s .

Done once .So while your names on the eq of Fr land reg you are exempted from the 90/180 while in France .
The Fr might create for themselves a separate date base of U.K. Fr property owners none residents ..So no hassle at the border . Assuming any one ever looks at the stamps .

Sell it and you drop off automatically when the property is transferred.Like any deed sale .

No need to as baggy keeps banging on about to ever share this with other Schengen states or even discuss with Brussels .

Stil stamped in / out as I keep saying

I know I said I wasn't going to post again ... but your posts are just too funny ...

google ETIAS and EES ....

As for all this golden passport/visa stuff ... well the Russians well and truly screwed everyone on that one.

MEPs demand a ban on ‘golden passports’ and specific rules for ‘golden visas’ | News | European Parliament

“These schemes only serve to provide a back door into the EU for shady individuals who cannot enter in broad daylight. It is time we closed that door, so that Russian oligarchs and other persons with dirty money stay out. Member state governments have refused to address the problem, claiming it was not an EU matter. Given what is currently happening, they cannot duck this issue anymore.”

Ban ‘golden passports’...

Parliament stresses that ‘citizenship by investment’ (CBI) schemes, under which third country nationals obtain citizenship rights in exchange for a sum of money, undermine the essence of EU citizenship. Parliament describes the practice -in place in Malta, Bulgaria and Cyprus- as “free riding”, as member states sell what was never intended to become a commodity. Applications have been accepted even when requirements were not met, MEPs say, and demand that these schemes be phased out due to the risks they pose.

...and regulate ‘golden visas’

Noting the less severe risks posed by ‘residence by investment’ (RBI) schemes, Parliament asks for EU rules to help tackle money laundering, corruption, and tax evasion, including:

• stringent background checks (also on applicants’ family members and on sources of funds), mandatory checks against EU databases, and vetting procedures in third countries;
• reporting obligations for member states, including a “notification and consultation” scheme to allow other member states to object; and
• requirements for minimum physical residence (for applicants) and active involvement, quality, added value, and contribution to the economy (for their investments).

What has actually happened to these schemes?

Feb 22 UK ... scrapped Golden Visa scheme
Feb 23 Ireland .... scrapped their Golden Visa scheme
Sep 23 Portugal .... removes property investment from their Golden Visa scheme and scraps tax advantages for foreign residents.
May 23 Spain announced plans to end the residency through property scheme for good and are considering an interim proposal to up the minimum investment to €1M
Italy still operates a Golden Visa scheme, the minimum investment is €500,000 which must be done through an Italian limited company. Those holding these visas can also include their family in the application and benefit from a special tax regime. Simply owning property isn't enough.
September 22 Greece .. raised the minimum investment to €500,000 to increase the affordability of real estate for locals in the Greater Area of Athens, the Municipality of Thessaloniki, and the islands of Mykonos and Santorini. This new threshold applied from 1 May 2023. €250k will remain in the poorer areas.
Bulgaria ... drafted a law to end golden visa schemes.
Cyprus ... is only processing applications submitted prior to November 2020, all of which have already been examined, according to the Cypriot government.

What do they all have in common? - a residency card or a VISA which dovetails into the EU immigration systems in place already - and a complicated application process (with the exception of Greece which is very fast) as I mentioned earlier .... Portos Wet Dream of connecting the French Land Registry to border control just for Brits is nonsense.

The tide is turning against such schemes anyway, but I can see a fast-track route to a VLS if it will solve the delays in the current system. We know that current second home owners push up property prices, price out locals and kill communities in rural or low population areas, and they put upward price pressure on property in attractive areas. So I'm not sure this will go anywhere but you never know.