Marina rules around automatic bilge pumps.

[Chiara’s slave]

I guess that's true. But how did such craft manage before automatic bilge pumps existed? And most day boats don't have a reliable power supply for such things. When my father owned a converted lifeboat, which had a non-self-draining cockpit, I think the cockpit was covered when the boat was left. Apologies for the vagueness - I was about 10 at the time, 60-odd years ago!

Whatever, it is the case that some marinas ban automatic bilge pumps for reasons that are out of their control. At JWDM it is a condition of their use of the dock, and I can imagine other scenarios such as a fresh-water marina with a lock being required to ban them by the Environment Agency. You can't RELY on being able to use them.

These boats didn’t exist in uk before auto pumps. Or at least, they didn’t float in marinas.

 

[Refueler]

The question gets answered by the change of action of owners.

When I had boats without auto-pumps .... I visited the boat as often as possible ... I also had cockpit covers. It was found on odd occasions that amount of water was of concern.

I can remember my Father had arrangements with locals to check the boat if he couldn't get to it ... we lived just south of London and boat was in Fareham - he would try to be at boat every weekend despite the drive.

Later with auto-pumps - of course the frequency of visits could be reduced ....

 

[rogerthebodger]

One issue is that marinas tend to a a blanket disclaimer and the owner would have to fight the marina who have all the power and control

This is now why there are consumer protection litigation to protect the owner from the abuse by the one who thinks they have control

The problem is that the so-called consumer protection is too long winded or costly and as you say we just loose interest or time

One of the issues that has been noted above is a constant leak that keeps filling up and the Bilge pump pumps out and thus not noticed.

I fitted a 12vdc electroo mechanical counter that will record the number of times the pump has operated thus indication a repeated pump operation

 

[TSB240]

I have a keel stepped mast which is the only contributor to an otherwise dry bilge.
I suspect the inner mast seal has broken down with age. There are no deck seal leaks. In the short term I have blocked off the limber holes to the mast heel sump and added an additional bilge pump. I have not tested it but you could probably drink this water!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

These boats didn’t exist in uk before auto pumps. Or at least, they didn’t float in marinas.

That isn't so. In the 60s, MOST of the boats I knew didn't have self-draining cockpits; I think our Halcyon 27 was the only boat in the harbour that did (they were an innovation then), and most were what we'd call day boats these days. I knew several open boats that lived on moorings. All usually had a canvas cover if not in daily use. They all managed without automatic bilge pumps. I'll give you RIBs!

 

[Refueler]

This is now why there are consumer protection litigation to protect the owner from the abuse by the one who thinks they have control

The problem is that the so-called consumer protection is too long winded or costly and as you say we just loose interest or time

One of the issues that has been noted above is a constant leak that keeps filling up and the Bilge pump pumps out and thus not noticed.

I fitted a 12vdc electroo mechanical counter that will record the number of times the pump has operated thus indication a repeated pump operation

"One issue is that marinas tend to a a blanket disclaimer and the owner would have to fight the marina who have all the power and control"

That was YOUR comment - not mine .... where you'd misspelled QUOTE ... I put in bold to differentiate from mine.

My point was that first discuss - then put all to Insurance ... let them argue it out ... (while not being secretive about marina's reluctance to resolve).

 

[Refueler]

That isn't so. In the 60s, MOST of the boats I knew didn't have self-draining cockpits; I think our Halcyon 27 was the only boat in the harbour that did (they were an innovation then), and most were what we'd call day boats these days. I knew several open boats that lived on moorings. All usually had a canvas cover if not in daily use. They all managed without automatic bilge pumps. I'll give you RIBs!

But the ones that survived well were regularly visited - so the accumulation of water was managed ... like I mentioned about my Father driving every weekend to the boat regardless of going sailing or not.....

Over years - I have noted quite a few boats full of water that have been left for significant periods

 

[Jim@sea]

Did you think it was wise to go out for a sea trial when you knew that there was water in the engine oil?

I had a garage for 40 years, when I heard the engine run I reckoned that there was no serious damage, the boat broke down because the person from the boatyard assumed that the diesel had been switched off so he turned the key which meant that he switched the diesel off, there was sufficient fuel in the pipes and filters to take the boat out of the marina, when it broke down the lad from the boat yard looked at me and said "Why are you smiling" and I replied "What better way to get the price down to say the boat broke down and had to be towed back"

 

[Chiara’s slave]

That isn't so. In the 60s, MOST of the boats I knew didn't have self-draining cockpits; I think our Halcyon 27 was the only boat in the harbour that did (they were an innovation then), and most were what we'd call day boats these days. I knew several open boats that lived on moorings. All usually had a canvas cover if not in daily use. They all managed without automatic bilge pumps. I'll give you RIBs!

We have a dayboat with a cover. Hard to say if it’s fresh or salt when we do get a spot or 2 in the bilge, it being wooden. Gentlemen do not drink bilgewater. It has a small solar panel, a battery and an auto bilge pump. It’s also raced 3 times a week, pretty much every week. It’s specifcally ROBs that get swamped withput one, though I imagine some fully rigit day power boats might suffer too.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

An environmentally conscious sailor would fit a bilge discharge filter to an automatic bilge pump on a small boat Bilge Discharge Filters | Bilge Filtration | Oil Spill Products Ltd.

The legislation does not apply to small vessels, but who wants to be known as polluter or a tight wad for not fitting a discharge filter on an automatic bilge pump, and ruining waters, even temporarily, for others to enjoy.

Pleasure Vessels – Guidance and Applicable UKRegulations
Notice to all builders, owners, operators and skippers of pleasure vessels.
This Note replaces MGN 489 (M), as amended.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80346c40f0b62305b89cb4/MGN_538.pdf

7.4 Oil
7.4.1 The Merchant Shipping (Prevention of Oil Pollution) Regulations 1996 (SI 1996/2154), as amended in general require that oil should be retained on-board for disposal to shore reception facilities. Ships shall not discharge oil or oily mixture into the sea unless they are proceeding on a voyage; the oil is discharged through oil discharge monitoring equipment (an approved oily water separator and discharge alarm, and in addition within a special area, an automatic stopping device), and the oil content of the effluent discharged over board does not exceed 15ppm. Overboard discharge of oil in the Antarctic special area is prohibited. However, for vessels of less than 400GT then there is not a requirement to install oily water separating equipment. For such ships the best guidance is to not discharge oil or oily water but retain this on board as above.
7.4.2 The regulations relevant to Pleasure Vessels do not apply to any discharge into the sea of oil or oily mixture necessary for the purpose of securing the safety of a ship or saving life at sea.

 

[thinwater]

I find a slight irony that some UK marinas apparently ban automatic bilge pumps for environmental reasons, while discharging blackwater is far less of a concern, while that is against US federal law within 3 miles of shore. Just different and what we are used to and accept as normal.

 

[ylop]

My argument would be that an automatic bilge pump is part of my provision to prevent the boat from sinking

I think your argument is lost if the no bilge pump rule is clearly in the terms - unless perhaps they enter your boat, turn it off and don’t tell you. There is no compulsion to use a particular marina if you don’t like their operating rules.

If you’re talking about conventional cruisers, motor or sail, or even daft trimarans, sure. Our DF bilge pump is left on, but it has as far as I’m aware, never run in anger. We test it occasionally, to check it's still there. But about half the boats in our harbour are essentially open. RIBs, dayboats etc. If your auto pump fails with one of those, you are literally sunk. And it happens fairly regularly.

Interestingly I’d question if the deck on a rib is the bilge. There will usually be a hull void below it. However if I was buying a rib to keep in a marina I’d either want a cover or self draining deck arrangement (elephant trunks / scuppers) that would not need an electrical pump. I don’t think you can blame a marina if you bought a boat that isn’t suited to being left in the rain and left it in the rain!

I find a slight irony that some UK marinas apparently ban automatic bilge pumps for environmental reasons, while discharging blackwater is far less of a concern, while that is against US federal law within 3 miles of shore. Just different and what we are used to and accept as normal.

I don’t know any Uk marina that would find black water discharge acceptable.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

A RIB cover is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to fit afloat. And the bilge pump isn’t for the deck, it’s for the ‘bilge’, if we can call it that. The actual lowest point of the V hull. Rain inevitably finds its way in. The boat is perfectly suitable to beung left in the rain, it has an auto pump, and the marina are fully aware, and applaud it’s use,

 

[jwilson]

If I had the boat I owned 50+ years ago (wooden, open non-self-draining cockpit) and now kept it in a marina, I could certainly put up with a no auto bilge pump rule, as it had no electrics at all, apart from a 9v battery operated Seafarer echo sounder. But would it be OK to hand bilge pump the collected rainwater into the marina when I went aboard at least every week?

Not that I could have afforded marina prices!

 

[BCsailor]

Our bilge pump switch (Waterwitch) won't be activated by diesel in the bilge, so no diesel pumped overboard.

(We like the Waterwitch, but one must wipe clean its contacts every 2-3 months.)

 

[NormanS]

I find a slight irony that some UK marinas apparently ban automatic bilge pumps for environmental reasons, while discharging blackwater is far less of a concern, while that is against US federal law within 3 miles of shore. Just different and what we are used to and accept as normal.

Maybe in the UK it's not necessary to have a government law against something which would be seen as universally unacceptable.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Maybe in the UK it's not necessary to have a government law against something which would be seen as universally unacceptable.

I wish that were the case, we have plenty of laws of that nature.

 

[Refueler]

Our bilge pump switch (Waterwitch) won't be activated by diesel in the bilge, so no diesel pumped overboard.

(We like the Waterwitch, but one must wipe clean its contacts every 2-3 months.)

I have had 2 Waterwitch .... first lasted just under 2yrs ... second lasted 1 yr...

 

[rogerthebodger]

How about a wave power bilge pump

Unimer Drainman Wave Activated Bilge Pump

or

Wave Powered Boat Bilge Pump (No Electricity Wind Natural Suction Marine)

 

[thinwater]

Replies:

Post.
"I find a slight irony that some UK marinas apparently ban automatic bilge pumps for environmental reasons, while discharging blackwater is far less of a concern, while that is against US federal law within 3 miles of shore. Just different and what we are used to and accept as normal."

Replies.
I don’t know any UK marina that would find black water discharge acceptable.
(I didn't specifically say in a marina. My understanding is that discharge is illegal in UK inland waters, as it is in US inland waters.)

Maybe in the UK it's not necessary to have a government law against something which would be seen as universally unacceptable.
(My understanding is that pump-out are few in the UK, many boats don't have holding tanks, and pumping just a few miles outside the harbor is normal. Is this incorrect? In the US pump-outs are generally common (5 in my harbor), cheap ($0 to $5) and virtually 100% of the boats have holding tanks. And as others have said, we all have lots of laws-- I doubt the legislature could agree universally on the day of the week.)

--

Just differences.