Marina Moved My Boat Without Permission from the Repair Yard and Damaged My Boat: Seeking Advice

[The Real Flipper]

You seem to have quite a few chips on your shoulders, and a very negative view of the Netherlands (not widely shared, it would appear). Perhaps you should either shake off your negativity, or go somewhere else?

I came here with a very positive attitude. The Dutch changed that by force believe me!
Also, those here will have a positive attitude about the Dutch because they have money to spend.
Immigrants in The Netherlands are universally unhappy. In fact global expat surveys have found The Netherlands to be the country with the least happy immigrants in the world. Yes literally.

So it is most certainly not a minority opinion.
The truth if I can speak so plainly is that the Dutch totally and universally hate immigrants.
They advertise the opposite abroad to keep up 'progressive' appearances which are good for business.
This is objectively true.

And don't ever suggest an immigrant move. That's what the Dutch do in support of immigrant abuse.
Immigration is a bigger commitment than marriage statistically speaking. Nobody statistically does it twice. It's too large an undetaking to do more than once. And anybody who suggests that is either 1. Dutch or 2. never immigrated and so ignorant on the matter, or both.

Borrow or buy one of these: digital caliper - Google Shopping
You can soon see if any shaft has been lost.
With the rudder lifted back in place, check for play. A tiny bit is not a problem.

With respect it appears you’ve got some strange and ambitious expectations of what is ok and what is not.

I don't consider a company not moving a boat out of repairs to be 'ambitious' I consider it common sense.
The fact that their secretary said they 'never' do that backs this up.
I don't consider a company not moving a boat with a rudder hanging down 'ambitious' I consider it common sense.
The fact that their own tech told me they would 'never' do that backs this up.

They did both!
So interpreting this action as either very aggressive or extremely negligent is perfectly reasonable in the context of the statements from their own employees. And asking for some kind of settlement after all the time and energy lost and headache is IMO perfectly reasonable.

Not to say the industry is very reasonable as it is now sounding that a lot of unprofessionalism and disrespect of people's property goes around, which is disappointing to hear, considering how much so many people I've spoken to at least, really love their boats!

In fairness my Dehler had actually been owned from new by a German guy whom I never actually met with all negotiations passing through De Valk.
It seemed a lot of Germans keep/kept their boats in Holland.
I keep my current boat in Roscoff and over the year many Dutch boats, old and new pass through, usually looking to be well found, personally I always found the Dutch guys I did business with and met through sailing to be a nice bunch.
I'm sorry you have such a seemingly low opinion of them

Yeah, now it makes sense ;-)

 

[The Real Flipper]

No problem - just read the instructions for the new hard product - this is international, but doubt it is any different for other makes international-yachtpaint.com/s3/documents/TDS/Ultra_300_eng_A4_20180911.pdf

"PREVIOUSLY ANTIFOULED SURFACE
In Good Condition: All fouling and contamination must be thoroughly removed including the leached layer. "

So I guess I need to ask the repair tech if he sanded it all down. If not, this isn't looking good...

I'll go measure the post as suggested.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

"PREVIOUSLY ANTIFOULED SURFACE
In Good Condition: All fouling and contamination must be thoroughly removed including the leached layer. "

So I guess I need to ask the repair tech if he sanded it all down. If not, this isn't looking good...

I'll go measure the post as suggested.

It's not the end of the world, a few square feet of antifoul that will either fall off or be overheated next year when you haul out for antifouling. Just get on with what you are doing to get the boat ready for next year, you are going to have to either rub down the existing antifoul or put the boat in the water soon anyway.

 

[Irish Rover]

You seem to have quite a few chips on your shoulders, and a very negative view of the Netherlands (not widely shared, it would appear). Perhaps you should either shake off your negativity, or go somewhere else?

I second that. I wouldn't be surprised if the marina management have become aware of the OP'S rude and obnoxious opinions of his host country and it's citizens. As an ex pat I'd never publicly criticise my host country or it's people. I think it is the height of rudeness and bad manners and particularly when it's done sneakily using an anonymous Internet handle.

 

[The Real Flipper]

I second that. I wouldn't be surprised if the marina management have become aware of the OP'S rude and obnoxious opinions of his host country and it's citizens. As an ex pat I'd never publicly criticise my host country or it's people. I think it is the height of rudeness and bad manners and particularly when it's done sneakily using an anonymous Internet handle.

First I have been nothing but polite and friendly to everyone here in the marina, and what you suggest is simply untrue.
Second, there is nothing wrong with criticizing the country you live in, expat or not. The ability to do so is at least in part what defines 'civilized'. Nobody should have to cower under the opression of abuses.
And third I did not say any of these things here to offend. I said them to put the situation in realistic perspective of what an expat in The Netherlands has to live with, and in the interest of being truthful. Yes, really.

Please educate yourself first before being so quick to jump on the bandwagon of racial and cultural abuse, and ignorantly assume the victims are the problem.

There is nothing anonymous about the facts:
1. Belastingdienst childcare scandal in which the Dutch government resigned over universal psychotic financial violence against targeted immigrants.
2. The Undutchables a rather famous book about universally tolerated Dutch abuses of immigrants.
3. Zwarte Piet a black faced symbol of Dutch racism in the slave trade, still much adored today by the vast majority of the population and prominent figure this time of year in Dutch festivals. They say he's 'good for the children'. Such a figure hasn't been legal in any civilized western country for several decades now.

You speak out of ignorance.

And it is not rude to suggest that such 'biases' are likely present in this aggressive action against myself and my property.

 

[Irish Rover]

First I have been nothing but polite and friendly to everyone here in the marina, and what you suggest is simply untrue.
Second, there is nothing wrong with criticizing the country you live in, expat or not. The ability to do so is at least in part what defines 'civilized'. Nobody should have to cower under the opression of abuses.
And third I did not say any of these things here to offend. I said them to put the situation in realistic perspective of what an expat in The Netherlands has to live with, and in the interest of being truthful. Yes, really.

Please educate yourself first before being so quick to jump on the bandwagon of racial and cultural abuse, and ignorantly assume the victims are the problem.

There is nothing anonymous about the facts:
1. Belastingdienst childcare scandal in which the Dutch government resigned over universal psychotic financial violence against targeted immigrants.
2. The Undutchables a rather famous book about universally tolerated Dutch abuses of immigrants.
3. Zwarte Piet a black faced symbol of Dutch racism in the slave trade, still much adored today by the vast majority of the population and prominent figure this time of year in Dutch festivals. They say he's 'good for the children'. Such a figure hasn't been legal in any civilized western country for several decades now.

You speak out of ignorance.

And it is not rude to suggest that such 'biases' are likely present in this aggressive action against myself and my property.

I think you need help, pal.

 

[The Real Flipper]

It's not the end of the world, a few square feet of antifoul that will either fall off or be overheated next year when you haul out for antifouling. Just get on with what you are doing to get the boat ready for next year, you are going to have to either rub down the existing antifoul or put the boat in the water soon anyway.

OK, I guess it's not the end of the world. I just remember this summer spending two whole days trying in utter vain to sand off the layers of hard antifouling on the hull and finally gave up in exhaustion. In fairness I did use a ridiculously underpowered sanding machine with no vacuum attachment. But boy was that hard antifouling on there!. Anyway I would never use hard antifouling just because of this experience. But I think I'll take your advice and just deal with it and move on.

By the way, why should I need to rub down the current (soft) antifoul? What does that entail? I am planning to go in the water soon so it may not be relevant, still I'd like to know what process you're referring to.

So basically the conclusion is leave the hard antifoul, measure the rudder post again, and see if the amount sanded is measurable, put the rudder back up, and check for any looseness.

 

[The Real Flipper]

I think you need help, pal.

Sounds like you just spent a lot of time parsing the references given, objectively educating yourself on the subject, and re-evaluating your position in an unbiased manner.
In the 3 minutes since your last post

 

[Mister E]

Sir you come across as not liking the Netherlands, so why not move to somewhere you like?

 

[Tranona]

"PREVIOUSLY ANTIFOULED SURFACE
In Good Condition: All fouling and contamination must be thoroughly removed including the leached layer. "

So I guess I need to ask the repair tech if he sanded it all down. If not, this isn't looking good...

I'll go measure the post as suggested.

If it was only applied recently and has not been in the water then it should be no problem - it is chemically comparible.

 

[The Real Flipper]

Sir you come across as not liking the Netherlands, so why not move to somewhere you like?

Do you love everything about your country? Really? Why not 'just' move countries?

I've already fully covered just above, why such a question is both aggressively rude to say to an immigrant, and no offense, ignorant about the realities of moving country. Fully explained above.

Funny how you don't ask instead how the supposedly progressive Dutch get away with such extremism in this day and age.

I do have a life here and bonds and people I love. Like so many immigrants in The Netherlands I'm simply forced to deal with the extreme racial and cultural 'preferences' of locals.

Shall we just drop this element of the conversation please? I believe it has been discussed already further than I wished to do.
I've given three good avenues of research for anybody sincerely intersted in the subject who wishes to learn more. I'm not here to start a grass roots change in Dutch culture, but only to put these unfortunate experiences in perspective. And I think we've gone more than far enough. It's not a subject I like to belabor. It's tiring and depressing to focus on. I think enough said yes?

 

[Irish Rover]

Sounds like you just spent a lot of time parsing the references given, objectively educating yourself on the subject, and re-evaluating your position in an unbiased manner.
In the 3 minutes since your last post

The subject of my #64 was you, and your rude and obnoxious attitude towards your host country and you've posted nothing to cause me to re evaluate my position in that regard except maybe to reinforce it.

 

[The Real Flipper]

If it was only applied recently and has not been in the water then it should be no problem - it is chemically comparible.

Well that's good news! Also as long as the steel post is not too thin (again will get back on those measurements) the marina's fiberglass worker did a very fine job with the glass work, and the rudder looks really good now, especially since he came back a couple days ago and redid a little finish work.

Also I'll have to upload some pics on the teak work. It also came out pretty decent in the end. And like so many things it was a major learning experience.

There have been so many surprise projects with this boat. But in a way I guess it's good because I've learned more about the complexities of sailboat than I ever thought there even was to learn. And I do need to move forward because there are still a good number of projects still waiting.

Thanks again for all the assistance!

 

[The Real Flipper]

The subject of my #64 was you, and your rude and obnoxious attitude towards your host country and you've posted nothing to cause me to re evaluate my position in that regard except maybe to reinforce it.

Yeah, OK, thank you. I'm sure the entire Dutch government resigned LAST YEAR after being caught red handed in the biggest institutionalized racism scandal in the history of western civilization, because I personally have a problem.

And I do not expect that you will research the evidence presented. At all. You know everything you need to.
Fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion

Thank you for your feedback.
Moving on now?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

OK, I guess it's not the end of the world. I just remember this summer spending two whole days trying in utter vain to sand off the layers of hard antifouling on the hull and finally gave up in exhaustion. In fairness I did use a ridiculously underpowered sanding machine with no vacuum attachment. But boy was that hard antifouling on there!. Anyway I would never use hard antifouling just because of this experience. But I think I'll take your advice and just deal with it and move on.

By the way, why should I need to rub down the current (soft) antifoul? What does that entail? I am planning to go in the water soon so it may not be relevant, still I'd like to know what process you're referring to.

So basically the conclusion is leave the hard antifoul, measure the rudder post again, and see if the amount sanded is measurable, put the rudder back up, and check for any looseness.

If you leave the antifouling for a long time out of the water I was told that it loses its effectiveness and needs to be slightly abraded to freshen the surface just like people do with copper coat.

 

[The Real Flipper]

If you leave the antifouling for a long time out of the water I was told that it loses its effectiveness and needs to be slightly abraded to freshen the surface just like people do with copper coat.

OK, then this is probably going to need to be juggled into my short term to do list before going in the water.
Because I did the antifouling about... 3 1/2 months ago when I was planning to put the boat in the water. But then it didn't float. Because the stuffing box leak. And then I put it on a truck and moved it here closer to home which has been much nicer.

Hard to believe so much has happened in the history of this boat already, and I still haven't seen it float!

Now that I think of it I was actually considering doing another coat of the same stuff (International Micron) because at this point I may not pull it out again in the spring, but next fall or even the spring after instead. After so much time on land I don't think I'll be excited to get out of the water anytime soon.

So if I go that route, should I scuff it with something before re-antifouling? Like the green scrubby side of a sponge or something?
I saw one guy clean his with a towel and vinegar and it looked pretty sharp. Not sure if he was doing the same thing though.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

OK, then this is probably going to need to be juggled into my short term to do list before going in the water.
Because I did the antifouling about... 3 1/2 months ago when I was planning to put the boat in the water. But then it didn't float. Because the stuffing box leak. And then I put it on a truck and moved it here closer to home which has been much nicer.

Hard to believe so much has happened in the history of this boat already, and I still haven't seen it float!

Now that I think of it I was actually considering doing another coat of the same stuff (International Micron) because at this point I may not pull it out again in the spring, but next fall or even the spring after instead. After so much time on land I don't think I'll be excited to get out of the water anytime soon.

So if I go that route, should I scuff it with something before re-antifouling? Like the green scrubby side of a sponge or something?
I saw one guy clean his with a towel and vinegar and it looked pretty sharp. Not sure if he was doing the same thing though.

If you are going to put another coat on just do it but remove any loose flaky bits.

 

[Mister E]

I asked a simple question and got a strange answer.
If the boat yards and all the other yards are going to be a problem, then maybe moving the boat well away from that yard is the answer.

 

[The Real Flipper]

If you are going to put another coat on just do it but remove any loose flaky bits.

OK, well there is nothing loose or flaky as such. Though there are color streaks from the rain. And much of where I basically screwed up and antifouled over the blue painted stripe that runs just above the waterline, has just washed off. So I guess I can just paint over it then.

 

[The Real Flipper]

I asked a simple question and got a strange answer.
If the boat yards and all the other yards are going to be a problem, then maybe moving the boat well away from that yard is the answer.

OK this is really tiring to still talk about, but I'll do my best.
Basically in The Netherlands, if you leave a job or a house our a marina or anything with any abrasion, the people there will feel compelled out of their own cultural values to contact the people where you are going, and insure that their bias follows you and any abuses you may have escaped are waiting for you wherever you go. I think I characterized this as 'stalking' and I think that's actually accurate.

So there is no moving marinas, jobs, etc to get away from any abuses. The people in the new location will be eagerly awaiting your arrival. And they won't need to hear from you your side of the story. They won't ask.

This 'stalking' is covered in The Undutchables book where he goes over how ridiculously easy it is for even a single Dutch person to blacklist an immigrant in literally the entire country. Sounds pretty ridiculous. And it is. And it's true.

Dutch people side with Dutch people 100% of the time. And an opportunity to join a mob against an immigrant is a cultural bonding opportunity. And nothing is better than that.

My advice: don't ever move country. You'll get stuck there like the other 99% who never leave. And the first five years alone will age you a decade under best circumstances, which are unlikely. Go looking for a 'cultural experience' and you just might get one!

LOL. Life moves on