Marina Moved My Boat Without Permission from the Repair Yard and Damaged My Boat: Seeking Advice

[sailaboutvic]

@ real flipper .
Real mate sort out the rudder and go somewhere your more welcome ,
if there that upset with you , then you can only expect more of a problem.
What ever the CEO thinks or say she be looking after her manager at the end of the day ,
It's him she going to need to deal with for X years not you .

 

[fisherman]

Bit of drift anecdote, local yard, years ago. Lifting me out, the owner operating the crane, four wheeled type, I had to 'inform' him, ie yell, the back wheels were off the ground as the boat rose, he had a tricky job easing forward to drop me clear of the sloping quay wall, I had told him I was 14.5 tons.
Then he hooked the crane under the coach roof edge and lifted it up, 'don't worry, we'll put it right'.....which involved him giving me a handfull of long brass screws,
I left a 25lt can of oil on the quay, along with a plastic bucket, the oil vanished, not the bucket. He claimed that the tide overtopping the quay, (true) had floated it away, I argued that the bucket would have floated away before the oil, and he had a thief on site, he wouldn't wear it.
All part of life's rich travesty.

 

[The Real Flipper]

Bit of drift anecdote, local yard, years ago. Lifting me out, the owner operating the crane, four wheeled type, I had to 'inform' him, ie yell, the back wheels were off the ground as the boat rose, he had a tricky job easing forward to drop me clear of the sloping quay wall, I had told him I was 14.5 tons.
Then he hooked the crane under the coach roof edge and lifted it up, 'don't worry, we'll put it right'.....which involved him giving me a handfull of long brass screws,
I left a 25lt can of oil on the quay, along with a plastic bucket, the oil vanished, not the bucket. He claimed that the tide overtopping the quay, (true) had floated it away, I argued that the bucket would have floated away before the oil, and he had a thief on site, he wouldn't wear it.
All part of life's rich travesty.

Yeah... We all take a beating sometimes...

My main concern now is the state of my boat, specifically the rudder and rudder bushings.

So this is how the boat was moved. With the rudder just hanging there on a strap:
BTW, that's the spinakker pole just laying there on the foredeck, and my teak cockpit soles just staked up resting there, and yeah, you can see my navigation post just hanging on by one bolt unsecured. This is exactly how I found it.



That rudder had a whole lot of leverage on that bottom bushing!
Maybe that's why, they told me they 'never' move a boat in this state...
Then moved it exactly like this 3 days later?!


This side shows some fine air bubbles on the top layer.


This side was much worse with large air bubbles.



The marina's repair guy did a good job. The rudder looks quite nice now. And he sealed up the drying holes that I'd drilled. I don't have pics yet. But will upload some when I do.

But my main concerns about the repair are three things:
1. He painted the whole rudder with hard antifouling over the soft International Micron seen here, which is only a few months old. I've heard is a big no no as you can put soft antifouling over hard but not the other way around as it may crack and come off. Been unable to verify this on antifouling how to sites and various searches so any info on this much appreciated.

2. His first repair left a decent sized scratch about 5 cm long and 3-4 mm wide, obviously from a power sander/grinder right in the rudder post. I called the repairman about the scratch and he hustled out and sanded/polished it out, having polished around the entire post. Now I'm concerned if he took a mm or so out of the rudder post, will it fit the bushing as well as it used to???

3. Also is the bottom bushing itelf damaged? The GM said 'no definitely not' without even looking or needing to see the bushing with the rudder off. I'm not sure I can trust his guess.

The GM is now rushing me to put the rudder back up and put the boat in the water, as he says their crane shuts down for the winter in two weeks time. Is there an obvious way to tell if the bushing is damaged, or if the newly sanded/polished rudder post still fits as well as it should? Would the rudder have to come off for this?

I'd like to just move forward and forget all this. Again the CEO providing some compensation would go a long ways! But anyway I don't want bushings going bad in a few months or other damage because of this move, and then the GM later saying 'we're not responsible, it's normal wear, you've been using the boat' or something.

As usual any comments/suggestions much appreciated.

 

[xyachtdave]

Then he hooked the crane under the coach roof edge and lifted it up, 'don't worry, we'll put it right'.....which involved him giving me a handfull of long brass screws…

To be honest the way the marine industry works, I’m surprised you got the screws.

I’ve learned to expect the worst and am rarely disappointed.

A story for another thread but turning up and taking your boat before you’ve settled their invoice puts you in a much better negotiating position!

 

[The Real Flipper]

Actually my partner is Dutch but that made no different how we been treated
...

Yeah! Right. That's where you're wrong!
You led with the most important sentence...

To be honest the way the marine industry works, I’m surprised you got the screws.

I’ve learned to expect the worst and am rarely disappointed.

A story for another thread but turning up and taking your boat before you’ve settled their invoice puts you in a much better negotiating position!

Maybe I should have taken a clue by how I was treated in the south of Netherlands where I bought the boat.
See threads on 'shoddy mast support repair job', and 'promised repairs as part of purchase and waited literally all summer long while they put literally every single Dutch person who happened along at the front of the line ahead of me', etc, etc.

The Dutch obsession with Dutch, which globally speaking is very much 'Niet Normaal' (as I've worked and traveled globally and never seen a culture where literally everybody was so very much obsessed with being so very extremely cohesive with their own culture) was possibly just the icing on the cake. Perhaps the whole boat industry is just seen by workers therein as a fat cash cow to be milked for all it's worth. And if you ain't got the big bucks and the shiny new boat, then buzz off.

The GM in this marina literally admitted he damaged my boat then said 'its an old boat' IE if you aren't Mr. Rich customer, we frankly don't give a damn about you or your boat. Not exactly the 'egalitarian' attitude the Dutch claim to be, but maybe that's normal in the boat industry...

I've never seen a culture so obsessed with the idea that everyone gets treated 'normaal', and at the same time struggled so hard to simply be treated normal. What an irony!

I didn't come here to share this to find a way to get an attorney and screw these guys. That's not my vibe. I was literally just trying to get a measurement on what exactly is normal in this industry, and just how badly I got screwed by these guys. And how to get through this with minimal abrasion, and a seaworthy boat!

Personally, having owned a boat a little while now, and having done a ton of work, I know if I worked in the boat industry I would treat every rowboat to luxury yacht with the same respect. As I've personally learned how surprisingly attached a person can become to their boat. This is my 'baby' now! I would think that after 30 years of experience as the GM claims to have, that they would know this. But then again, maybe after 30 years experience, they're sick and tired of everybody being picky about their precious 'baby' and just don't give a damn anymore. I don't know...

Somehow the Serenity Prayer seems appropriate here. LOL

 

[fisherman]

To be honest the way the marine industry works, I’m surprised you got the screws.

I’ve learned to expect the worst and am rarely disappointed.

A story for another thread but turning up and taking your boat before you’ve settled their invoice puts you in a much better negotiating position!

It is a well known tale, and the owner is long gone, so I may be able to relate that he dropped a brand new Luke Powell, the crane jib came down across other boats. He is reported to have said that he tested the wire with a rag, and there was less than one snag per metre. It was remarked there should be no snags at all, if snags are present it's ferked. Also it is said (being careful here, hearsay) that the insurance walked away and he picked up the bill.

 

[Lightwave395]

My experience of the Dutch was different.
I bought a Dehler 35 in Holland back in 2002 through the broker De Valk, the boat had several issues that came out from the survey - the boat had been trucked back from 7 years in the Med by it's German owner and just 'dumped' with the broker as was.
As seemed to be the practice there the price stayed firm and the defects list was to be dealt with within 2 weeks when I was due to arrive to take possession. All the issues were dealt with to my satisfaction and I sailed away back to UK with the boat as planned,
I was actually impressed with the way it all went, the broker was very efficient, if the Euro had remained at 1.40 to the pound I'd have probably gone back for a subsequent boat !

 

[The Real Flipper]

My experience of the Dutch was different.
I bought a Dehler 35 in Holland back in 2002 through the broker De Valk, the boat had several issues that came out from the survey - the boat had been trucked back from 7 years in the Med by it's German owner and just 'dumped' with the broker as was.
As seemed to be the practice there the price stayed firm and the defects list was to be dealt with within 2 weeks when I was due to arrive to take possession. All the issues were dealt with to my satisfaction and I sailed away back to UK with the boat as planned,
I was actually impressed with the way it all went, the broker was very efficient, if the Euro had remained at 1.40 to the pound I'd have probably gone back for a subsequent boat !

De Valk is a high end broker. Possibly the highest end for the retail market.
So you came with money, you left your money, and you left.
Not surprised in the least that your experience as basically a rich money spending tourist (no offense!) was different.
As stated before you are precisely whom they like most!

Again, not trying to be offensive, but the Dutch work hard to keep up appearances, while keeping the money flowing in.
Move here for a little bit, *without* a Dutch partner, and I guarantee you'll have a more similar experience ;-)

 

[Lightwave395]

De Valk is a high end broker. Possibly the highest end for the retail market.
So you came with money, you left your money, and you left.
Not surprised in the least that your experience as basically a rich money spending tourist (no offense!) was different.
As stated before you are precisely whom they like most!

Again, not trying to be offensive, but the Dutch work hard to keep up appearances, while keeping the money flowing in.
Move here for a little bit, *without* a Dutch partner, and I guarantee you'll have a more similar experience ;-)

Possibly, never lived there but have done a lot of business, no offence taken but me rich...! 'you're avin a larf' the boat was 50K euros, less than about 2/3 of the then current price in the UK - if you could find one, it needed £10K of replacement / upgrade kit

 

[The Real Flipper]

It is a well known tale, and the owner is long gone, so I may be able to relate that he dropped a brand new Luke Powell, the crane jib came down across other boats. He is reported to have said that he tested the wire with a rag, and there was less than one snag per metre. It was remarked there should be no snags at all, if snags are present it's ferked. Also it is said (being careful here, hearsay) that the insurance walked away and he picked up the bill.

Geez. Maybe I need to adjust my expectations for the whole industry!

 

[Wansworth]

My observation of the Dutch and knowing a few shipowners,they the Dutch are very neat and tidy and bit tight with money

 

[The Real Flipper]

Possibly, never lived there but have done a lot of business, no offence taken but me rich...! 'you're avin a larf' the boat was 50K euros, less than about 2/3 of the then current price in the UK - if you could find one, it needed £10K of replacement / upgrade kit

Yeah, sorry that's not how I meant it. But to the Dutch you were a rich guy, believe me. They all secretly despise the Brits and Germans as rich folk. A 50 grand boat is outside 99% of Dutch people's dream lists for sure...

Also I'm surprised you got a good deal on a boat here!

I've found consistently far better boat deals in France, England, and even Denmark.
You will almost never find a Dutch owned boat that has ever been anything but cleaned and serviced.
You will almost never find a Dutch owned boat from the 80s for example that has *ever* had new standing rigging or been re-powered.
If they put new sails that was 12 years ago, and they are selling now!

 

[The Real Flipper]

My observation of the Dutch and knowing a few shipowners,they the Dutch are very neat and tidy and bit tight with money

I would say that's precisely right ;-)
And 'a bit' is quite a bit!
And boats eat money. So I would not advise anybody focus on The Netherlands to find a used boat. As almost guaranteed all the big money work has been permanently deferred!

 

[Wansworth]

I would say that's precisely right ;-)

?

 

[The Real Flipper]

But let's talk about the amount of leverage that lowered rudder would have had on that bottom bushing while being moved.
Being in the know they would 'never' ever do such a thing... but then did!

And the hard antifouling over the soft antifouling.

And the ground, polished rudder post, probably 1-2mm thinner now, and how that will fit the possibly (newly) not so very wonderful condition bottom bushing.

Really I'm not here to just rant on Dutch culture. Though I've never met an immigrant in The Netherlands without stories to rant about! I really am most concerned with how seaworthy my boat is going to be on the trip to Norway!

And what I can do about it right now.

 

[dunedin]

Yeah, sorry that's not how I meant it. But to the Dutch you were a rich guy, believe me. They all secretly despise the Brits and Germans as rich folk. A 50 grand boat is outside 99% of Dutch people's dream lists for sure...

Also I'm surprised you got a good deal on a boat here!

I've found consistently far better boat deals in France, England, and even Denmark.
You will almost never find a Dutch owned boat that has ever been anything but cleaned and serviced.
You will almost never find a Dutch owned boat from the 80s for example that has *ever* had new standing rigging or been re-powered.
If they put new sails that was 12 years ago, and they are selling now!

You seem to have quite a few chips on your shoulders, and a very negative view of the Netherlands (not widely shared, it would appear). Perhaps you should either shake off your negativity, or go somewhere else?

 

[john_morris_uk]

And the ground, polished rudder post, probably 1-2mm thinner now, and how that will fit the possibly (newly) not so very wonderful condition bottom bushing.

Borrow or buy one of these: digital caliper - Google Shopping
You can soon see if any shaft has been lost.
With the rudder lifted back in place, check for play. A tiny bit is not a problem.

With respect it appears you’ve got some strange and ambitious expectations of what is ok and what is not.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Borrow or buy one of these: digital caliper - Google Shopping
You can soon see if any shaft has been lost.
With the rudder lifted back in place, check for play. A tiny bit is not a problem.

With respect it appears you’ve got some strange and ambitious expectations of what is ok and what is not.

He is very new to the game, this is his first boat so he has a lot of lessons to learn about boats and the industry, some will be hard and some will be rewarding.

 

[Lightwave395]

Yeah, sorry that's not how I meant it. But to the Dutch you were a rich guy, believe me. They all secretly despise the Brits and Germans as rich folk. A 50 grand boat is outside 99% of Dutch people's dream lists for sure...

Also I'm surprised you got a good deal on a boat here!

I've found consistently far better boat deals in France, England, and even Denmark.
You will almost never find a Dutch owned boat that has ever been anything but cleaned and serviced.

In fairness my Dehler had actually been owned from new by a German guy whom I never actually met with all negotiations passing through De Valk.
It seemed a lot of Germans keep/kept their boats in Holland.
I keep my current boat in Roscoff and over the year many Dutch boats, old and new pass through, usually looking to be well found, personally I always found the Dutch guys I did business with and met through sailing to be a nice bunch.
I'm sorry you have such a seemingly low opinion of them

 

[Tranona]

And the hard antifouling over the soft antifouling.

No problem - just read the instructions for the new hard product - this is international, but doubt it is any different for other makes international-yachtpaint.com/s3/documents/TDS/Ultra_300_eng_A4_20180911.pdf