Pacofan
Active Member
So I'm thinking of taking the plunge and buying my first boat. Any advice on negotiation?
Making an offer on a boat
- Thread starter Pacofan
- Start date
BAtoo
Well-Known Member
More details of your intentions would help - type, spend (£1k, £250K??), new, used, wreck etc.
KREW2
Well-Known Member
You need to know what your looking for. Getting 10% off a boat that is 50% overpriced is not the best of deals.
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
There was some info on this a while backsuggesting making an offer 10% less than asking price.I went to see a boat and after listening to the sales speil I said "are you open to offers" the seller said no so I wandered off,but he has since emailed me offering to lower the price,I am waiting till March.......
oldfatgit
Well-Known Member
Firstly, don't be put off. You can always find a reason not to buy a boat.
Decide on your requirement by balancing what you want against what you can afford. Include likey insurance costs, mooring costs, haul out and survey costs. Your first boat will be a real learning experience, don't be afraid to start off modest as you can expect to get a good price on selling in a few years when you know more and want to upgrade.
Once you have a realistic type and price firmly fixed in your mind, surf all the web and look at what's on offer. By doing so you will get to know more and can refine your requirement. When you feel you know enough to start looking, pick the most likely and go and have a look. Set aside plenty of time for each boat and take a mate who knows boats for a second opinion. Look in every locker, examine the sails, work the winches, run the engine if possible, go for a test sail if possible, eyeball everything, prod and poke about in order to understand her. Even if you think you have found the one do not make an offer when there but walk away and take off the rose tinted spectacles. Return with s/he who must be obeyed, if s/he is involved, and let him/her see the boat from his/her perspective (hope this is not too PC). Try and find out how long the boat has been on the market, if the price has changed during that time, why is the owner selling and points from her history, such as when was the standing rigging last replaced, who serviced and maintained the engine, how many hours has it done etc.
Walk away again discuss and consider.
When you are sure that you have found the one, phone the broker or owner and discuss the process of making an offer, payment of deposits, from when will you have to pay for mooring fees, from when your insurance should take effect etc. If she is out, who is paying for the lift in (factor in things like the cost of work you want to do before launching and/or moving her including mooring fees ashore or afloat during this time). The owner might just be wanting to get rid of the boat and will accept a “silly” offer, otherwise make one based on what you have learnt and can afford. Either way state “subject to survey”. Go through the normal bargaining process and fix a price.
You don't have to have a survey, I didn't on my first boat and regretted it but only a little. On second boat had one and was very thankful indeed. So select a surveyor who is not well known in the area concerned. I used a chap based in Exeter to survey a boat in Dartmouth. He was unknown to the broker and so there was no possibility of him bowling an easy underarm full toss! Nevertheless, point out things you have noticed so he can check them out as well as do his normal thing.
After the survey fix the final price and cough up. Once you have paid and am happy remember the feeling, it won't last long but it is great. Then start the process of getting you newly purchased joy up to scratch and to where you want her. Run it like a project because that is just what it is and be prepared for unexpected costs. Nevertheless it is great fun and very satisfying. For me half of the pleasure in sailing is the owning, management and working on a boat. Have hired and don't like is as much, nothing better than making a successful hard passage a the boat you have set up and sailed.
Remember throughout even when things go badly you are learning and preparing so that in the future they will go well.
Good luck and keep smiling.
Decide on your requirement by balancing what you want against what you can afford. Include likey insurance costs, mooring costs, haul out and survey costs. Your first boat will be a real learning experience, don't be afraid to start off modest as you can expect to get a good price on selling in a few years when you know more and want to upgrade.
Once you have a realistic type and price firmly fixed in your mind, surf all the web and look at what's on offer. By doing so you will get to know more and can refine your requirement. When you feel you know enough to start looking, pick the most likely and go and have a look. Set aside plenty of time for each boat and take a mate who knows boats for a second opinion. Look in every locker, examine the sails, work the winches, run the engine if possible, go for a test sail if possible, eyeball everything, prod and poke about in order to understand her. Even if you think you have found the one do not make an offer when there but walk away and take off the rose tinted spectacles. Return with s/he who must be obeyed, if s/he is involved, and let him/her see the boat from his/her perspective (hope this is not too PC). Try and find out how long the boat has been on the market, if the price has changed during that time, why is the owner selling and points from her history, such as when was the standing rigging last replaced, who serviced and maintained the engine, how many hours has it done etc.
Walk away again discuss and consider.
When you are sure that you have found the one, phone the broker or owner and discuss the process of making an offer, payment of deposits, from when will you have to pay for mooring fees, from when your insurance should take effect etc. If she is out, who is paying for the lift in (factor in things like the cost of work you want to do before launching and/or moving her including mooring fees ashore or afloat during this time). The owner might just be wanting to get rid of the boat and will accept a “silly” offer, otherwise make one based on what you have learnt and can afford. Either way state “subject to survey”. Go through the normal bargaining process and fix a price.
You don't have to have a survey, I didn't on my first boat and regretted it but only a little. On second boat had one and was very thankful indeed. So select a surveyor who is not well known in the area concerned. I used a chap based in Exeter to survey a boat in Dartmouth. He was unknown to the broker and so there was no possibility of him bowling an easy underarm full toss! Nevertheless, point out things you have noticed so he can check them out as well as do his normal thing.
After the survey fix the final price and cough up. Once you have paid and am happy remember the feeling, it won't last long but it is great. Then start the process of getting you newly purchased joy up to scratch and to where you want her. Run it like a project because that is just what it is and be prepared for unexpected costs. Nevertheless it is great fun and very satisfying. For me half of the pleasure in sailing is the owning, management and working on a boat. Have hired and don't like is as much, nothing better than making a successful hard passage a the boat you have set up and sailed.
Remember throughout even when things go badly you are learning and preparing so that in the future they will go well.
Good luck and keep smiling.
V1701
Well-Known Member
Go and see as many boats as you can and do as much research as you can, don't rush, it is a buyers market in the sense that there are bargains to be had, but be careful not to insult people with derisory offers for their pride and joy. Try to meet with the owner and not just rely on brokers, some of whom are good guys and extremely helpful, others almost completely disinterested (this from personal experience and I can only assume due to the fact that my budget was low (15-25k) so they wouldn't be making much commission). I ended up buying privately. It's worth a lot to maintain a good relationship with the previous owner...
Spyro
Well-Known Member
You wont insult a broker with a low offer you're more likely to be embarrassed. Don't worry about insulting owners with a low offer. If they feel insulted they don't have to sell.
There are no strict guidelines on what you offer. If you see a boat at 40K and you only have 30K then that's what you offer.
I bought a boat this time last year and there are still boats for sail now that were for sale then. Many of the boats sitting on brokerage listings have a very hopeful price tag. I think many owners are under the opinion that if the can sell at a good price then they will otherwise they will hang on to what they have.
The one I bought was for sale with a broker. I knew the owner was keen to sell and I offered 30% less than the asking price and ended up getting it for 20% less.
There a few websites such as www.boatsandoutboard.com and www.apolloduck.com which gives a good idea of realistic prices.
There are no strict guidelines on what you offer. If you see a boat at 40K and you only have 30K then that's what you offer.
I bought a boat this time last year and there are still boats for sail now that were for sale then. Many of the boats sitting on brokerage listings have a very hopeful price tag. I think many owners are under the opinion that if the can sell at a good price then they will otherwise they will hang on to what they have.
The one I bought was for sale with a broker. I knew the owner was keen to sell and I offered 30% less than the asking price and ended up getting it for 20% less.
There a few websites such as www.boatsandoutboard.com and www.apolloduck.com which gives a good idea of realistic prices.
Last edited:
TQA
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 20 Feb 2005
- Messages
- 6,815
- Location
- Carribbean currently Grenada
Do your homework. Some boats are waaaaaay overpriced. The broker may even agree but they are acting on instructions. Some brokers of course wil not accept boats that are priced this way.
In the US where lots of people are in major negative equity they just can afford to sell the boat at its current market value.
Boats often eventually sell for 50 - 70% of the original asking price.
It can be hard to work out what a boat is worth, does it need work, how soon, is it likely to have hidden horrors.
One CSY that I looked at was first advertised at 89k now is 59k and bring offers.
In the US where lots of people are in major negative equity they just can afford to sell the boat at its current market value.
Boats often eventually sell for 50 - 70% of the original asking price.
It can be hard to work out what a boat is worth, does it need work, how soon, is it likely to have hidden horrors.
One CSY that I looked at was first advertised at 89k now is 59k and bring offers.
BruceDanforth
Well-Known Member
Be prepared to walk away and also be prepared to spend a lot of time travelling round looking at boats. I made an offer to a broker on a boat in Scotland which I thought was sensible, the broker ummed and ahhed for so long that I found another example of the same marque in much better condition and for the price I wanted to pay. The original boat is still unsold at an unrealistic price. Certainly in the very modest bit of the market I inhabit it's a buyers market.
michael_w
Well-Known Member
If you are decided on a specific model, try and look at as many examples as possible. I looked at 7 sisterships, out of 35 made, before I bought. I knew more about their construction and weak points than any broker.
lille_bee
Well-Known Member
Make an offer
In a former life as a broker, a monster offshore power boat (with four (yes 4) inboard petrol engines) came on my books from the Isle of Man. I did try and tell the owner that North Wales might not be the place to try and sell such a thing but he insisted especially at the price he was looking for.... lets just say £50, 000 plus wasn't close.
To cut a short story even shorter a young couple came in one Saturday afternoon (one week after the boat arrived), saw it on the forecourt (well you could hardly miss it) and fell for it. They looked so sad at the price and said they only had £10K to offer..
"you do realise that I am obliged to put any offer to the vendor, no matter how silly" I sheepishly suggested.....
"Make it £11K and you've got a deal" replied the vendor.
The moral of the story is ... hope you've got a lot of petrol
In a former life as a broker, a monster offshore power boat (with four (yes 4) inboard petrol engines) came on my books from the Isle of Man. I did try and tell the owner that North Wales might not be the place to try and sell such a thing but he insisted especially at the price he was looking for.... lets just say £50, 000 plus wasn't close.
To cut a short story even shorter a young couple came in one Saturday afternoon (one week after the boat arrived), saw it on the forecourt (well you could hardly miss it) and fell for it. They looked so sad at the price and said they only had £10K to offer..
"you do realise that I am obliged to put any offer to the vendor, no matter how silly" I sheepishly suggested.....
"Make it £11K and you've got a deal" replied the vendor.
The moral of the story is ... hope you've got a lot of petrol
doug748
Well-Known Member
Once decided I like to make an offer in writing. You then can then be pretty sure the broker will pass it on and it gives the seller something concrete to ponder on. It also means there is less leeway for misunderstanding.
so in your letter:
You may also wish to point out it is a firm offer not subject to any further survey or inspection (or subject to a satisfactory engine trial or whatever)
or:
You may wish to make a firm offer subject to condition survey which will not be used as a basis for a revised offer
or, you can make the more usual offer:
Subject to survey ( which the owner knows will mean you will come back with a reduced offer).
Of course with the first two options above the owner will be more motivated to accept a low, or very low, offer. It does mean that you need to have some confidence in your ability to spot a good un but it excludes the later often unseemly wrangles over trivial faults in the boat.
Channel Ribs
Well-Known Member
I can only reiterate what has been said already, as a broker I can see there have been some great suggestions made...
Do you research
&
Do not be shy about making an offer.
Good luck.
PS Post more details if you can!
rob2
Well-Known Member
It helps to know how long the boat has been for sale, too. If it is not a pristine example and needs some TLC and has been on the market for some time, it will not sell. A friend of mine got someone to phone and offer a silly price without survey - around 10% of the asking price. This was obviously indignantly refused, but it sowed the seeds of doubt in the sellers mind. About a month later my friend offered twice the original offer and a few weeks after that the seller phoned to try to get him to up the offer a little - his yard fees were due! It probably helped that when showing the boat the engine wouldn't start...
Rob.
Rob.
Pacofan
Active Member
Met owner at boat, chatted for quite a while about sailing in general, found out how much lower than the asking price he was prepared to go. I made an offer, he thought about it overnight then accepted. Thanks for the advice people.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
I'm old fashioned. I offered what I thought was a fair price to both the seller and to me. It was accepted later that day, so I could probably have got her a bit cheaper, but what the hell. I have no desire to get an unfair bargain.
oldfatgit
Well-Known Member
Congratulations Pacofan and happy sailing.
santeana
Well-Known Member
The RYA have some very useful publications on boat purchase including drafts of sale agreements/contracts. I found these extremely helpful when buying my first and only yacht. Especially beneficial if you purchase, as I did, from a private owner rather than a broker.
TQA
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 20 Feb 2005
- Messages
- 6,815
- Location
- Carribbean currently Grenada
That CSY 37 that started at $89 is now on offer on EBAY with NO RESERVE and top bid so far is $15600.
