Mains Power on Board

[Stemar]

I reckon it shouldn't make a lot of difference to the installation, but what I'm planning is for very occasional use as an improvement to the long lead and extension leads we currently use. The boat lives on a mooring and will only be hooked up to the mains when we're alongside.

Since the supply lead only has IP44 connections and, as Paul says, it's common for that use on boats, I'll fit the inlet in a sheltered spot, and live with it. I had no intention of using a ring main - there's just no need for it on a small boat. Tinned cable would be nice, but I think the cost is prohibitive.

Thanks everyone

 

[PaulRainbow]

I reckon it shouldn't make a lot of difference to the installation, but what I'm planning is for very occasional use as an improvement to the long lead and extension leads we currently use. The boat lives on a mooring and will only be hooked up to the mains when we're alongside.

Since the supply lead only has IP44 connections and, as Paul says, it's common for that use on boats, I'll fit the inlet in a sheltered spot, and live with it. I had no intention of using a ring main - there's just no need for it on a small boat. Tinned cable would be nice, but I think the cost is prohibitive.

Thanks everyone

In this instance, i would suggest that you also keep the shore power Earth isolated from the boats metalwork, in other words, just connect it in the CU and connect all outlets to it, nothing else. This doesn't comply with current regs, but you don't have to. You won't them need a galvanic isolator and your anode and under water metalwork will be safe.

 

[lustyd]

I'll fit the inlet in a sheltered spot, and live with it

My Jeanneau has the inlet inside the cockpit locker, with the cable entering through a slot under the lid. This means that the socket itself is dry and needs no IP rating

 

[Praxinoscope]

My present boat (Sadler 25 with inboard engine) came with a 240v installation to a single 13 amp switched socket. (First time I have had a boat with 240v.)
There is an RCD the system and the shoreline IP 44 connector is in a sheltered position in the transom locker.
I have never used the system in the 5 years that I have had the boat, but it is on my list to check the circuit this winter.
As far as I can tell there is no galvanic isolator in the system. obviously there should be an Earth connection to some point somewhere, where are the most common places on a small boat for the Earth to be attached?

 

[PaulRainbow]

My present boat (Sadler 25 with inboard engine) came with a 240v installation to a single 13 amp switched socket. (First time I have had a boat with 240v.)
There is an RCD the system and the shoreline IP 44 connector is in a sheltered position in the transom locker.
I have never used the system in the 5 years that I have had the boat, but it is on my list to check the circuit this winter.
As far as I can tell there is no galvanic isolator in the system. obviously there should be an Earth connection to some point somewhere, where are the most common places on a small boat for the Earth to be attached?

A) On older boats the incoming 240v Earth usually connects to the consumer unit and each outlet will also be connected to the same point. There is usually no connection from Earth to any part of the boat.

B) Newer boats must comply with more current regulations, which differ from the above. There has to be an additional connection from shore power Earth connection to the water. This can be done in a variety of ways, such as the hull of a metal boat, the vessels ground plane, a hull anode or a dedicated button anode. With this type of installation it it vital that a galvanic isolator or isolation transformer is fitted.

If you have type A, there is no requirement to change it to type B.

 

[VicS]

Paul, be careful about recommending "Artic" for outside use. I have done the research. Suffice to say, contrary to popular opinion, it is not recommended for outside use. I will let you research if you want but would suggest a good supply of paracetamol and access to a nice dark padded room! Just wanted to point that out, I am seriously not getting into the discussion on here.

This article from the IET Wiring Matters explains and qualifies the above

https://electrical.theiet.org/media/1592/the-use-of-arctic-cable.pdf

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

I assume the "IP44" comment relates to the actual shore power connector, not the consumer unit.

Whilst i prefer to install waterproof connectors, such as the Ratio ones, there must be millions and millions of boats that are fitted with IP44 connectors. The connectors in UK marinas are all IP44, as are standard site plugs/sockets.

Yes . I was reading on the hoof!

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

You could quote a couple of reasons, without debating. The reason I am requesting this, because you have done the research, is that many extension cables sold to be plugged in between boat and shore receptacle are quoted as being arctic cable, therefore is being used outside, in all weathers.

I am just a consumer, no specific electrical expertise, so if I go looking for a replacement shore power cable, I do what I think is a reasonable effort at technical specification as described on web sites and cost. The ubiquitous IP44 16A CEE Plug is used in all marinas and caravan sites that I have visited in the UK. IP44 does have low velocity water spray protection from all directions as well as dust protection.

240V Blue Extension Lead 16A x 20M

Yes OK about IP44 plugs I mistakenly thought he was referring to his CU! As for cable, you can buy and sell what you want. As I said, contrary to popular opinion "Arctic" is not recomended For outside use. Temporary traffic lights are OK if it is covered.
No one has been prosecuted for using it, yet! I pointed it out to Paul as I was concerned that his advice could be taken as gospel. He is after all a professional contractor .

 

[LadyInBed]

Fan heaters in each cabin is a good idea but can you get low wattage ones so you don't keep tripping the circuit breakers.

These are the latest generation of low wattage fan heaters
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BM9QX...e=osi&th=1&psc=1&ascsubtag=ecSEPtxw6ylct6pw5n
Mine are an older generation of wall mounted with two selectable power levels.

 

[LadyInBed]

Double back all stripped copper ends if you can so that you have more copper in the terminal.

I don't go for more copper in the terminal but double back the copper along the insulation. Then when the copper and insulation is pushed into the terminal I ensure that the screw bites down on the insulation, which gives a good mechanical as well as electrical connection and helps prevent vibration loosening or fracturing the copper.

 

[lustyd]

Ooof this is gonna be a long thread now. Someone might need to restrain Paul until it's over ?

 

[PaulRainbow]

I don't go for more copper in the terminal but double back the copper along the insulation. Then when the copper and insulation is pushed into the terminal I ensure that the screw bites down on the insulation, which gives a good mechanical as well as electrical connection and helps prevent vibration loosening or fracturing the copper.

You've posted this before, it's an especially poor way of connecting wires, i do wish you wouldn't do it.

Anyone reading this, please, please ignore this, it's dangerous.

 

[LadyInBed]

You've posted this before, it's an especially poor way of connecting wires, i do wish you wouldn't do it.

Anyone reading this, please, please ignore this, it's dangerous.

Please explain what makes it dangerous, I've been wiring mains plugs and sockets that way for donkeys years without any issues.
If you have explained previously, I do apologise as I can't remember your reason.

 

[VicS]

Please explain what makes it dangerous, I've been wiring mains plugs and sockets that way for donkeys years without any issues.
If you have explained previously, I do apologise as I can't remember your reason.

The ends of flexible cables should be fitted with bootlace ferrules if they are going into terminals with grub screws.

.

 

[Stemar]

These are the latest generation of low wattage fan heaters
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BM9QX...e=osi&th=1&psc=1&ascsubtag=ecSEPtxw6ylct6pw5n
Mine are an older generation of wall mounted with two selectable power levels.

That's a nice idea if I were going to be hooked up to the mains most of the time, but for the half a dozen times I'd use them in a winter, I think I'll stick to the portable one I have. It turns itself off if it gets knocked over, so I reckon it's pretty safe.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

You've posted this before, it's an especially poor way of connecting wires, i do wish you wouldn't do it.

Anyone reading this, please, please ignore this, it's dangerous.

100% in agreement. In fact it is not, in the trade, considered good practice to " double back" on conductors. I do however give them a bit of a twist.

 

[lustyd]

Please explain what makes it dangerous, I've been wiring mains plugs and sockets that way for donkeys years without any issues.
If you have explained previously, I do apologise as I can't remember your reason.

Doing something for a long time doesn't make it safe or right. If I said I was dipping wires in chocolate before fitting and always had would you consider that any more suitable?
The relatively low strength of the insulator will make a weaker connection which could fail. There are very clearly better ways, and Paul is encouraging people to use those instead of what is demonstrably a worse method. We're all free to do what we like on our own boats, as demonstrated by my fridge making thread where I'm ignoring some expert advice in order to learn and play. I certainly wouldn't advocate for others to follow my lead though

 

[Refueler]

That's a nice idea if I were going to be hooked up to the mains most of the time, but for the half a dozen times I'd use them in a winter, I think I'll stick to the portable one I have. It turns itself off if it gets knocked over, so I reckon it's pretty safe.

I use Frost Protect heaters .... I have a couple from B&Q that are variable up to 500W .... with auto off when temp reached.

One sits under my Laser Cutter machine stopping the water cooled laser tube from freezing.

I also have a larger Duplex Loft Heater ... also 500W max ...

That is standing in the boat keeping her snug as a bug ...... I know its warm in there as the snow tends to melt a bit on the deck !!

 

[coopec]

Please explain what makes it dangerous, I've been wiring mains plugs and sockets that way for donkeys years without any issues.
If you have explained previously, I do apologise as I can't remember your reason.

You won't get a reply from Paul.

Paul says using domestic extension cable for the 220V power distribution in my yacht is dangerous but when I asked why I didn't get a response. FFS!

Maybe Paul should look at this?
doubling cable over for termination?

 

[coopec]

The ends of flexible cables should be fitted with bootlace ferrules if they are going into terminals with grub screws.

.

I think that's a bit theoretical surely? An electrical tradesman would never do that. (He'd go broke!)