Mains Power on Board

[coopec]

Western Australia?? ?

Don't forget we won the America's Cup!

How many times have you guys won it? (I'll have to Google it)

Has England ever won America's Cup?
The America's Cup is the oldest international trophy in world sport, pre-dating the modern Olympics, the Ryder Cup and the World Cup – and Britain has never won it ?

 

[jamie N]

Was that you?!!
It's your round...?

 

[Refueler]

Oh Dear ..... In Red corner we have .... in the Blue corner we have .....

As an aside - Ring Main vs Radial.

I have Ring Main in the house and radial in the garage / wokshop .... both have similar power reqt's.

The Latvian Co that did BOTH jobs - the guys used to work in UK but returned to Latvia creating a highly respected own Co. Before leaving Latvia for UK - they were top guys in the best Electrician Co here ...

I asked for Ring Main in the house and was agreed ....

When it came to later garage / workshop - local regs intervened even though the guys agreed that overall the Ring Main was better.
Why > It comes down to load on cable and shortest path. Before anything else - I do not accept as often said - to reduce cable size for Ring Main against that used in radial.
I look at wiring in the house and - yes it has to be long enough to run back to CU. Back when I look at the Radial setup in garage - I see more individual cables based on the accumulated load each one then carries. The guys admitted they used more cable on the Radial section per section .....

No doubt someone will now argue ... I'm only passing on Qualified Electrician's comments and my observations.

Needless to say Ring Main is not necessary on a boat .as we are talking about ...

 

[Daydream believer]

deleted

 

[PaulRainbow]

Plenty of correct info there but your usual facetious comments and style I find jarring as is normal with your posts. I will put you back on ignore, thank you.
I don't know why I bother but I do like to try to the best of my limited ability to assist those who ask sensible questions. Perhaps we should all shut up and leave it to the few on here who are always totally correct and know it all.

If you post incorrect information, you should expect to be corrected.

 

[Daydream believer]

Don't forget we won the America's Cup!

How many times have you guys won it? (I'll have to Google it)

Has England ever won America's Cup?
The America's Cup is the oldest international trophy in world sport, pre-dating the modern Olympics, the Ryder Cup and the World Cup – and Britain has never won it ?

We made that cup & it is still shinning like a shilling up a sweeps "£$%.
Quality made in Britain mate- Quality ?

 

[PaulRainbow]

If you reckon you guys know it all why did you go for a "Ring Mains" (Australia never used them)

Plenty of info detailing why the UK went for ring mains, back in the 40's. For instance: Ring circuit - Wikipedia

As i stated earlier, we don't use ring mains on boats.

Can you quote the Regulations that ban the use of domestic cabling (extension cord) for the internal 240V cabling of a yacht.
What do you suggest should be used instead? (The electrical tradesman approved the safety aspect of what I've done so I'm not terribly interested in what you think)

I could quote various regs that your installation doesn't comply with, but you're not interested. The use of flex not being one of them, provided it conforms to acceptable standards and is suitably rated.

240v systems without proper current protection and protection from shock are not particularly compliant with regs or common sense.

 

[PaulRainbow]

It's just @PaulRainbow style. If there are bits I don't like I just ignore those comments. About the only people using tinned wire on boats seem to be the DIYers which includes myself.

There is nothing wrong with using tinned wire, if you want to use it that's absolutely fine by me. What i would (and do) disagree with is the assertion by some that it absolutely must be used. I use it on anything up the mast, in damp lockers, bilges etc but inside, in dry cabins, normal wire is just fine.

 

[coopec]

I could quote various regs that your installation doesn't comply with, but you're not interested. The use of flex not being one of them, provided it conforms to acceptable standards and is suitably rated.

240v systems without proper current protection and protection from shock are not particularly compliant with regs or common sense.

Paul
I said "Can you quote the Regulations that ban the use of domestic cabling (extension cord) for the internal 240V cabling of a yacht. "
Now you say "I could quote various regs that your installation doesn't comply with, but you're not interested " ?

OK Paul you don't know of any do you? Why maintain you do? (People posting here are not stupid) ?

AND My inverter has an RCD device..

 

[PaulRainbow]

Paul
I said "Can you quote the Regulations that ban the use of domestic cabling (extension cord) for the internal 240V cabling of a yacht. "
Now you say "I could quote various regs that your installation doesn't comply with, but you're not interested " ?

OK Paul you don't know of any do you?

Try reading the part of my post that you highlighted in giant text.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Paul
I said "Can you quote the Regulations that ban the use of domestic cabling (extension cord) for the internal 240V cabling of a yacht. "
Now you say "I could quote various regs that your installation doesn't comply with, but you're not interested " ?

OK Paul you don't know of any do you? Why maintain you do? (People posting here are not stupid)

AND My inverter has a RCD device..

It's also considered poor form to add information to a post after someone has responded to it.

 

[coopec]

It's also considered poor form to add information to a post after someone has responded to it.

Oh Geez! So sorry Paul!
For a bloke that is soooo expert in electronics you seem to spend a lot of time on the internet! ?

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

I'm thinking of installing mains electricity on Jazzcat. I understand how the circuits work and can wire things safely, but am less sure about cable sizes and a few other details.

I already have a box with a double pole RCD and a couple of 16amp circuit breakers, which I'll install as close as practicable to the supply plug (Is IP44 adequate for mounting out of spray but in the rain?).

Since I have the two breakers, I'm thinking of a circuit for each hull, with a couple of double sockets on each, on the basis that it's always better to have more rather than less, though the only serious current draw would be a fan heater in winter and, possibly a reasonably chunky battery charger, though this will come later.

Since I have 16 amp breakers and no long cable runs, ISTM that 1.5 amp cable would be more than adequate, and I plan on using heat resistant flexible cable, rather than house cable, for vibration resistance.

Any thoughts please?

Do not install IP44 anywhere near water! They are designed for inside use, definitely not in the rain!!
Have you got an RCD or an RCBO? there is a difference . I would suggest should be 16 amp RCBO Type "A" RCD with "B" curve tripping. That means the RCD part is "A" and the Overload curve is "B" It will be easier to look it up if confused rather than me trying to explain.

 

[Refueler]

Don't forget we won the America's Cup!

How many times have you guys won it? (I'll have to Google it)

Has England ever won America's Cup?
The America's Cup is the oldest international trophy in world sport, pre-dating the modern Olympics, the Ryder Cup and the World Cup – and Britain has never won it ?

Is anyone really interested in Americas Cup now that the rules and reqt's are so skewed - that its lost all relation with its origin.

As to England and the Cup ..... don't forget that the J Class were built for it ...

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

Lots of variations of 2.5 flex, Arctic being just one. It is called Arctic cable because it can endure temperatures as low as -40c and remain flexible. It's the go to cable for general outdoor use.



Even if the cable is folded over, the screws still chew the thin strands. Better to use crimped bootlace ferules.



You won't get three doubled over 2.5mm wires in a socket terminal. That said, you should not need to do so, unless you are fitting spurs, which i'd avoid on a boat as much as possible, better to stick with a standard radial circuit on a mid to large sized installation. For a typical small boat installation, where there are a small amount of sockets, it's often simpler to run a separate cable from the consumer unit to each socket.



As mentioned in post #11, a galvanic isolator is only needed of the Earth is connected to the water.

Paul, be careful about recommending "Artic" for outside use. I have done the research. Suffice to say, contrary to popular opinion, it is not recommended for outside use. I will let you research if you want but would suggest a good supply of paracetamol and access to a nice dark padded room! Just wanted to point that out, I am seriously not getting into the discussion on here.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Paul, be careful about recommending "Artic" for outside use. I have done the research. Suffice to say, contrary to popular opinion, it is not recommended for outside use. I will let you research if you want but would suggest a good supply of paracetamol and access to a nice dark padded room! Just wanted to point that out, I am seriously not getting into the discussion on here.

Depends on "outside use", surely ? If it's laid across a building site, not a good idea perhaps, as a shore power lead, perfectly suitable and fitted to millions of boats.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Paul, be careful about recommending "Artic" for outside use. I have done the research. Suffice to say, contrary to popular opinion, it is not recommended for outside use. I will let you research if you want but would suggest a good supply of paracetamol and access to a nice dark padded room! Just wanted to point that out, I am seriously not getting into the discussion on here.

You could quote a couple of reasons, without debating. The reason I am requesting this, because you have done the research, is that many extension cables sold to be plugged in between boat and shore receptacle are quoted as being arctic cable, therefore is being used outside, in all weathers.

I am just a consumer, no specific electrical expertise, so if I go looking for a replacement shore power cable, I do what I think is a reasonable effort at technical specification as described on web sites and cost. The ubiquitous IP44 16A CEE Plug is used in all marinas and caravan sites that I have visited in the UK. IP44 does have low velocity water spray protection from all directions as well as dust protection.

240V Blue Extension Lead 16A x 20M

240V Blue Extension Lead 16A x 20M – High quality, pre-assembled 240V extension leads available in lengths ranging from 5 metres to 25 metres. All of our extensions come pre-assembled and ready to use upon arrival. They also include pre-fitted IP44 plug and sockets and the arctic flex cable is suitable for use outdoors.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Do not install IP44 anywhere near water! They are designed for inside use, definitely not in the rain!!
Have you got an RCD or an RCBO? there is a difference . I would suggest should be 16 amp RCBO Type "A" RCD with "B" curve tripping. That means the RCD part is "A" and the Overload curve is "B" It will be easier to look it up if confused rather than me trying to explain.

I assume the "IP44" comment relates to the actual shore power connector, not the consumer unit.

Whilst i prefer to install waterproof connectors, such as the Ratio ones, there must be millions and millions of boats that are fitted with IP44 connectors. The connectors in UK marinas are all IP44, as are standard site plugs/sockets.

 

[lustyd]

It may not be necessary, but it's hard to argue that tinned cable isn't nicer even if just from an OCD perspective ? I'd use it everywhere if it wasn't so darned expensive!

 

[Refueler]

It may not be necessary, but it's hard to argue that tinned cable isn't nicer even if just from an OCD perspective ? I'd use it everywhere if it wasn't so darned expensive!

Agreed .... the only matter that I find annoying with standard cable - every few years - disconnect from sockets and clean the ends !!
I also find it interesting that I've been on boats where owner paid good money for tinned cable - to then connect to common standard sockets / gear ..... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm