MacGregor 65?

[Catamaran]

Morning all,

Just been having a read through the forum for the first time and it's good to see so many varied opinions!

The reason I've joined is to tap in to some of those opinions... At the moment, this is purely a paper exercise, but I intend to put the plan in to action in the next 2 years.

I'm considering changing my boat. Currently I sail a 37' cat around Cornwall/Devon mostly, with the odd trip to Scilly isles or Channel islands.

As the family is growing up, I'm looking for something with a bit more pace that we can realistically do decent length passages on and also something that will beat to windward without having to rely on the engine! The intention will be to spend a season or two exploring more northerly parts of the British isles, then head south to do the Med, then (maybe 5-8 yrs) take it transatlantic to play over there.

As a result, I'm thinking of investing in a MacGregor 65... Yes, I know it's a big LOA jump from the cat, but everything I read points me to that boat...

It's fast, appears good value for money (I hate the faux wooden finishes on most modern tubs, so the plasticcy interior doesn't bother me) and will accommodate the family in some comfort on long passages. The fact that it has a decent engine that will drive it at 10kn+, with the added stability of maybe putting up the main means it should be OK for tackling some rougher waters.

My overall budget is ca £150k, inc doing some alterations, and for that I believe I can get a good example of the Mac 65 and have £25-35k left to play with for new sails, or other goodies that might be required.

Has anyone on here got any experience of this boat? Or well-founded opinions?

Failing that, can anyone point me in the direction of a suitable alternative? I'm thinking speed over comfort, mainly for safety reasons, also because plodding along at 4-5 knots and missing tidal gates etc is getting a bit tiresome for the whole family! Having said that, it must be suitable to live aboard for 3-4 weeks at a time.

 

[FullCircle]

One of the things you will need to consider is whether the boat has a current European RCD certificate rating. If not, you either accept that it has the inherent stability and seaworthiness of a rubber duck, or you put it through a prohibitively expensive test.
So European sailing is a nightmare if you import the boat.

If the boat is (I stand to be corrected) pre 1978?? then it will not need one.

 

[AndrewfromFal]

I raced with a member of the MacGregor family in the mid-nineties, not long after they had shut down the production of the Mac 65. Prior to this new ones had sold for under $200,000 apiece. The reason they had apparently ceased to build them was the number of Product Liability Lawsuits the 65 had generated.

I never sailed a 65 personally although some of my friends did (there was one based in Mallorca for many years owned by a German Accountant), and by all accounts they were great fun to sail, delivering on the promise performance-wise. My friends (who weren't anything to do with the MacGregor family) observed that the fitout was pretty basic and the quality was about what you'd expect for the money (in spite of their much vaunted 'efficient production methods').

- Given the age of these boats now and the hard use many of them got (at least one was used for transatlantic drug running), I imagine you'll need to be quite brave financially.

I don't think there is anything similar conceptually out there; - I always thought there was room for someone to take this further (and into a higher quality sphere), but it remains pretty much unique as far as I know.

 

[Catamaran]

Cheers guys... What were the major issues? Are they likely to be preventable with a bit (or a lot) of glass and resin?

Wiring etc doesn't bother me as I'm a competent DIY electrician and general wrench monkey.

It's a shame this space isn't a bit better filled. I love cruising along, but the idea of doing 9-10kn is just peachy.

Wonder if I could get the moulds and have one built of higher quality... Hmmmmm....

 

[Sybarite]

I raced with a member of the MacGregor family in the mid-nineties, not long after they had shut down the production of the Mac 65. Prior to this new ones had sold for under $200,000 apiece. The reason they had apparently ceased to build them was the number of Product Liability Lawsuits the 65 had generated.

I never sailed a 65 personally although some of my friends did (there was one based in Mallorca for many years owned by a German Accountant), and by all accounts they were great fun to sail, delivering on the promise performance-wise. My friends (who weren't anything to do with the MacGregor family) observed that the fitout was pretty basic and the quality was about what you'd expect for the money (in spite of their much vaunted 'efficient production methods').

- Given the age of these boats now and the hard use many of them got (at least one was used for transatlantic drug running), I imagine you'll need to be quite brave financially.

I don't think there is anything similar conceptually out there; - I always thought there was room for someone to take this further (and into a higher quality sphere), but it remains pretty much unique as far as I know.

I remember that one attempted to beat the ferry from Marseille to Calvi (Corsica). It left on the tail end of a Mistral and was well ahead of schedule until just before arriving when it fell into a flat calm. It hit highs of 26-27 knts - a bit of a handful for a family crew?

 

[AndrewfromFal]

a bit of a handful for a family crew?

What I heard was that it was surprisingly controllable; - reasonably well balanced, it had a big rudder and the rig setup was fairly simple. You could go fast, or you could reef early and still zip along comfortably with a minimum of fuss. The concern I would have is that I imagine all them were, to coin a phrase, 'ridden hard and put away wet' at some stage in their careers, so there might be a lot of TLC required before you could enjoy (relatively) trouble free cruising

 

[Tranona]

One of the things you will need to consider is whether the boat has a current European RCD certificate rating. If not, you either accept that it has the inherent stability and seaworthiness of a rubber duck, or you put it through a prohibitively expensive test.
So European sailing is a nightmare if you import the boat.

If the boat is (I stand to be corrected) pre 1978?? then it will not need one.

If the boat is imported into the EU now (or any time from 1998 on) it will need to meet the RCD (and pay VAT) irrespective of when it was built. If the boat was in the EU in 1998 then it will be exempt from the RCD.

There are several for sale on Yachtworld already located in the EU so it will be important to ensure that they are here legally.

 

[Sybarite]

What I heard was that it was surprisingly controllable; - reasonably well balanced, it had a big rudder and the rig setup was fairly simple. You could go fast, or you could reef early and still zip along comfortably with a minimum of fuss. The concern I would have is that I imagine all them were, to coin a phrase, 'ridden hard and put away wet' at some stage in their careers, so there might be a lot of TLC required before you could enjoy (relatively) trouble free cruising

That's all true. I remember looking at the idea when they first came out because they were the equivalent new of an average 40'-45' footer. A stockbroker acquaintance also was considering one but I don't know the outcome.

The big handicap is berthing. The mooring charge would be steep, but, more to the point, a lot of the very attractive little harbours that I enjoy visiting would not accommodate much over 40'.

 

[Sybarite]

If the boat is imported into the EU now (or any time from 1998 on) it will need to meet the RCD (and pay VAT) irrespective of when it was built. If the boat was in the EU in 1998 then it will be exempt from the RCD.

.

Does that mean continously since 1998?

 

[TQA]

Have you been inside one?

Even the pilothouse version has limited space. Visit one then look at a Bene 50.

Yup they do go well to windward PROVIDING you get the deep draf tfin or even better the bulb keel.

 

[Tranona]

Does that mean continously since 1998?

No just on the day, and for sake of completeness it is actually in the EEA which brings in all sorts of strange places where boats could be on the day. Needs evidence such as marina bills, customs clearance etc. A company like CE Proof will put together a dossier of evidence to support exemption, although there is no "official" way of getting approval. Bit like HMRC attitude to evidence of "deemed VAT paid" - they won't issue a statement, but won't pursue if they are satisfied with the evidence. There does not seem to be any systematic way of checking CE compliance other than at the point of first sale or import - and with a private import a bit hit and miss. The offence is under Trading Standards and can only be committed by an importer or trader/seller, not by buyer - although a buyer could also be the importer.

 

[Hypocacculus]

My kneejerk response is OMG!!!!!!!! that's a lot of boat to maintain..... are you sure you've got enough cash?

My second thought is budget for a decent tender, 'cos you'll struggle to get a berth anywhere

My third thought is whoa! 20 knots.... that's cool!

 

[jwilson]

Looked at one that had just arrived in Hong Kong after an incredibly fast offwind Transpacific crossing, under sail but with engine also running much of the time to keep it on the plane. Quite impressed at the time, but I do worry about the long-term build quality. The Sadler Barracuda was similarly if smaller fast and light, and there are lots of reports of build quality problems surfacing.

The old equation:

strong build,
lightweight and fast,
cheap

- you can only ever have any two of the three.

 

[Catamaran]

My kneejerk response is OMG!!!!!!!! that's a lot of boat to maintain..... are you sure you've got enough cash?

My second thought is budget for a decent tender, 'cos you'll struggle to get a berth anywhere

My third thought is whoa! 20 knots.... that's cool!

Cash isn't really an issue, although it's not limitless... I run a couple of my own businesses, so barring any major screw ups, I should be OK to wind down and enjoy life a bit more in a couple of years.

I'm thinking of keeping my current tender (12' Avon rib with a 25hp Honda OB), but also considering splurging on a jet rib for playing in the Med especially. Would this upset the balance too much on davits?

The speed is the thing I'm looking for... Don't want a diesel guzzling stink-boat if I can help it, as I do love getting canvas up!

 

[Monique]

IMO, ok boat for Med... not for a gale near the Gulfstream.

I would stay away form a Jet RIB... too much weight for the stern davits as she is a very narrow boat.

Look into XPRO Alu RIBS... with 15 HP, she would be quite speedy. (I just bought a XPRO UL 290 for new to me boat)

If you want a FAST, Well BUILT 60 + footer, you should look into a Deerfoot. Far better built boat IMO. (I looked into them...)

 

[Dockhead]

I don't think there is anything similar conceptually out there; - I always thought there was room for someone to take this further (and into a higher quality sphere), but it remains pretty much unique as far as I know.

I think very similar conceptually is Steve Dashew's Sundeer -- also 65', also 65' waterline, narrow beam, modest draft.

But much higher quality and incomparably better execution, with many ingenious details.

Not surprisingly, the cost is about 3x if not more than what you can get a Mac 65 for.

I like the concept, myself -- take a certain interior volume and stretch it out over a longer, narrower hull -- cost will not be all that different, and as to speed, wow.

Berthing would not be tragic I would think. I sail a 54' (nearly 60' LOA) and it's not all that bad. Stand at anchor and dinghy in if necessary, or use the commercial quay. My boat is based on a mid-river mooring which isn't too expensive.

I have looked at Mac 65s -- hideously plasticky, and questionable structural integrity, but the speed is very intriguing.

 

[Dockhead]

Looked at one that had just arrived in Hong Kong after an incredibly fast offwind Transpacific crossing, under sail but with engine also running much of the time to keep it on the plane. Quite impressed at the time, but I do worry about the long-term build quality. The Sadler Barracuda was similarly if smaller fast and light, and there are lots of reports of build quality problems surfacing.

The old equation:

strong build,
lightweight and fast,
cheap

- you can only ever have any two of the three.

LOL. And count yourself lucky if you get even two of those

How many strong, expensive, and slow boats are there?

Or weak, expensive and fast boats, particularly race boats?

Heaven save us from weak, expensive, and slow boats, but I bet they can be found

 

[Sybarite]

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/category/type/Macgregor

 

[doug748]

I once had a passage on a 65 foot racing cutter. It's beam seemed about 10 feet. Went like a scalded cock. I think she was called Silkie and the skipper was Christopher Shaw/e?

Anyone remember it?

 

[Monique]

IMO, ok boat for Med... not for a gale near the Gulfstream.

I would stay away form a Jet RIB... too much weight for the stern davits as she is a very narrow boat.

Look into XPRO Alu RIBS... with 15 HP, she would be quite speedy. (I just bought a XPRO UL 290 for new to me boat)

If you want a FAST, Well BUILT 60 + footer, you should look into a Deerfoot. Far better built boat IMO. (I looked into them...)

Oops... meant Sundeer. Deerfoot is another nice option