Lynch mob justice?

[Angele]

I don't think it's normal practice to reduce down to displacement speed at night.

No, but it is normal practice to obey speed limits.

The incident happened near Wandsworth Bridge. Above that bridge there is an 8 knot speed limit. Below the bridge, and through central London, the limit is 12 knots. The BBC article in the OP's link says the boat was travelling "at more than double the 12 knot speed limit".

 

[RupertW]

I also wonder at his statement that he had handed over the helm to her. Given that she wasn't around to contradict his story then he might have thought he was in the same position as two adults in a car where the drunk driver (whether licenced or not) would get the blame above the owner.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Yes, to illuminate the semi submerged logs they are about to hit,

 

[Lucky Duck]

I read in tonight's Evening Standard that the family of the deceased are campaigning for additional legislation, presumably to bring the waterways into alignment with the roads

 

[LadyInBed]

No, but it is normal practice to obey speed limits.

The incident happened near Wandsworth Bridge. Above that bridge there is an 8 knot speed limit. Below the bridge, and through central London, the limit is 12 knots. The BBC article in the OP's link says the boat was travelling "at more than double the 12 knot speed limit".

I'm not condoning the event, a but I wonder if the outcome would have been any different if it had hit at 12 knots.
I think probably not, stupidity and bad luck are not good bedfellows.

 

[lw395]

Having done jury service, I am quite sceptical of the reporting of trials.
It's not clear to me whether it's accepted the person who died was on the control at the time.
I do wonder how differently it would have been viewed had it been two lads in a powerboat after a few beers?
I suspect it would have gone down as misadventure?

I've let less experienced people drive my RIB. You sort of trust people not to smack it wide open, much as when you are driving in town.

You hit a log too fast, a speedboat will probably go over it, the outboard leg will hit the log. It goes pearshaped when either the steering isn't held straight or the throttle isn't shut. It's landing with the power on on full lock that flips the boat.

 

[chrishscorp]

He was the skipper, and the experienced person on board. He'd set an example that this was ok by doing it himself.

100% responsible I would say.

Agree fully

small speed boat, double the speed limit, in the dark, no LJs worn, no kill cord used, his boat and he set the example. utter madness.

 

[xyachtdave]

With my experienced boat owner hat on, I'd say yes he's guilty of negligence and the girl is dead because she had no idea what they were doing was so dangerous. Going for a river tour in the dark in his crappy little speedboat should have been fine even after a few beers if he'd managed to drive it slowly, take a hand held radio and pop a couple of life jackets on.

A lot has been made of the 'bought the boat to pull women' angle, not sure that's even relevant. You could argue everything you buy from clothes to cars to houses to haircuts and aftershave could be to help you 'pull women' if you're in the date zone.

I think if I'm completely honest, if I had a speedboat when I was a kid it's the sort of tragic mistake that I could have made. However doing a runner, not attending the trial and showing little remorse for the death of his girlfriend does point toward the fact he's a wrong'un.

 

[Tomahawk]

Indeed, that is why I am wondering if it's lynch mob justice. A very pretty woman had died in the company of a man who seems by many accounts to be a lot of a sad case. He bought a speedboat to impress women and hopefully seduce them. They had been out for a drink and meal. The boat had a number of defects. It was dark. They were exceeding a local speed limit. She was not experienced at helming. They were not wearing life jackets.

But if you take away all those curcumstances and ask the question, could the same outcome have occoured, you have to say yes. It is very likely you can be flipped over by hitting a difficult to see submerged object when navaging at speed in an area without a speed limit. Once in the water you are likely to suffer hypothermia. In which case, is it manslaughter or misadventure?

 

[savageseadog]

Having done jury service, I am quite sceptical of the reporting of trials.
It's not clear to me whether it's accepted the person who died was on the control at the time.
I do wonder how differently it would have been viewed had it been two lads in a powerboat after a few beers?
I suspect it would have gone down as misadventure?

I've let less experienced people drive my RIB. You sort of trust people not to smack it wide open, much as when you are driving in town.

You hit a log too fast, a speedboat will probably go over it, the outboard leg will hit the log. It goes pearshaped when either the steering isn't held straight or the throttle isn't shut. It's landing with the power on on full lock that flips the boat.

Indeed. A very powerful point. In these days of equality she was responsible for being on the boat as well.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Indeed. A very powerful point. In these days of equality she was responsible for being on the boat as well.

This was an accident waiting to happen , fast running river , well known to have bits float on it , twice the speed limit , in the dark top it up and inexperienced person at the wheel , probably one that's never been on a boat in her life .
We have had guys pulling a skier and useing us a turning point , you can see the fear in the skier face their that close .
The buck fall with the skipper ,

 

[jimi]

One of the purposes of law in society is to protect members of that society against actions that cause injury or loss. In this case it seems to me to be 100% correct that the prosecution was brought and if I'd been on the jury I'd have agreed with the verdict.

 

[johnalison]

Sooner or later this miserable specimen will get his just deserts and in the meantime will not be leading a happy life. As far as I can see, if his companion had been an inexperienced young man the verdict would have been the same.

 

[bedouin]

There is an interesting pattern to these cases.

There have been a few, like this, Cases of negligence that may or may not be regarded as gross negligence (and so criminal). The verdict of the courts appears more to the character and demeanour of the accused rather than the details of the case itself.

By no means is this a miscarriage of justice and he deserves what he got (although 6 years might be a bit harsh) but you can't help thinking that a more sympathetic character who turned up would probably have got away with it.

 

[penberth3]

There is an interesting pattern to these cases.

There have been a few, like this, Cases of negligence that may or may not be regarded as gross negligence (and so criminal). The verdict of the courts appears more to the character and demeanour of the accused rather than the details of the case itself...

Can you quote a few examples to support your opinion?

 

[sailaboutvic]

By no means is this a miscarriage of justice and he deserves what he got (although 6 years might be a bit harsh) .

You may have seen to forgot , a life as been lost .

 

[jordanbasset]

The speed limit is the maximum, not the minimum. At night with limited visibility it would be prudent to go less than it, not twice the speed limit. The alcohol and lack of life jackets were aggravating factors in that, certainly lots of studies have shown alcohol reduces your reaction times and lowers your risk perception.
This idiot, who was a 30 year old adult, did it a few times before and got away with it, this time he didn't, he was in charge and quite rightly responsible for what happened. If he was not stopped he would most likely carry on with his reckless behaviour

 

[capnsensible]

Sooner or later this miserable specimen will get his just deserts and in the meantime will not be leading a happy life. As far as I can see, if his companion had been an inexperienced young man the verdict would have been the same.

100%. Doesnt matter if its a Kayak or a Cunarder, put that Captains hat on and you are responsible. Act like a nerk and expect the consequences. Its a no snowflake zone out there.

 

[Praxinoscope]

100%. Doesnt matter if its a Kayak or a Cunarder, put that Captains hat on and you are responsible. Act like a nerk and expect the consequences. Its a no snowflake zone out there.

I agree completely, too many people nowadays don’t seem to be prepared to accept responsibility for their actions. No one held a gun to his head and made him zoom around at an irresponsible speed at night in a speed restricted area, he chose to!

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Not only did no one 'put a gun to his head' to make him do it, but he had planned that this sort of caper would be his modus operandi when out on the pull. It wan't two mates egging each other on until an 'accident' unfortunately befell them.

This was a premeditated act where he deliberately set about a course of actions that resulted in the death of a young women. He was the instigator, he was in control and it was his actions and omissions that caused the death. At least the six years is an improvement on the wrist slapping that used to handed out when people chose to drive drunk and it resulted in the death of other road users.

Thankfully the legal system is slowly adjusting to the fact that when someone actively embarks on a series of actions that result in a death, it can't be excused as misfortune or an accident. This isn't the blame culture, or a clambering for compensation, or lynch mop justice, but the prosecution of someone who's recklessness killed an innocent person.