Lucky to get home !!

[Refueler]

It does look a little low at the stern compared to the drawing in the sales brochure.

Presume there's no water in the bilge/the bilge is totally dry? Sometimes there is a false bottom/floor under the engine, and you can have water trapped under there and not know about it.

No the engine bay floor is hull bottom. I know that because a VDO impellor log is fitted through that floor.

The stern section is actually a strange design ... its as if three boxes are glued together. The largest being the centre engine box ,,, then a box either side creating the beam of the boat.
All three boxes are open top ....... but the two side smaller boxes do have an angled bottom hull creating the V hull. That is sealed and when we had to repair due to the larger engine cracking the joint both sides .. we found it to be a few cms depth till internal floor found, its like a shallow triangualr box section ... I have all the photos on IMGUR .. but I see that IMGUR is in trouble with UK so will have to upload direct .. let me look ..

and so on ....

 

[Refueler]

I am not sure why wife and friends wont sit on the cabin top or foredeck ... they do on my other small Kormoran that has less deck area and also narrow side decks.

 

[Hot Property]

She displaces as per specs with the AQ130 VP engine (4 cyl) 1.3 tons .... but having the 6cyl AQ170 VP in her - probably more like 1.5 tons.

When on trailer - the suspension is not pressed as if she is heavier .. trailer is for up to 3T

Add 4 people and a bit of gear .. say 400kg .. but they insist on sitting at the stern .. they are not boaters and don't like the narrow side deck ..

As to speed at which she dives off to side .. chine walk .. usually as she passes 15kts or more ... if I have only myself / 1 other on board - I have solved that and can get her to 23 - 25kts without much hassle .. having taken on board previous threads advice etc and tried all out.

The problem here as I see it - is trying to get that bow down and ... let her get going .. so far when 4 - 5 people on board - she digs in her stern ..

1.3 tons seems exceptionally light for a 24 ft boat.

My Saver 690 (23ft) was 1.7 tons without outboard. That weighed 300 kg so a book weight of 2 tons. I suspect that was an under estimate as well.

Add in your engine and outdrives and I'd be surprised if you were under 2.5 tons.

As another forumite suggested, you maybe expecting too much...

 

[Refueler]

1.3 tons seems exceptionally light for a 24 ft boat.

My Saver 690 (23ft) was 1.7 tons without outboard. That weighed 300 kg so a book weight of 2 tons. I suspect that was an under estimate as well.

Add in your engine and outdrives and I'd be surprised if you were under 2.5 tons.

As another forumite suggested, you maybe expecting too much...

I agree with you it appears very light .... but post #17 has the Builders data sheet uploaded .. and that's what it says .. and unusually it says Displacement ... unlike most boaty stuff that does not use such word... and as you know displacement is what is displaced in wtaer ..

I reckon with the increased engine .. she could be nearer 1.5T before people / gear ... so a 2T figure I think .. as I say the trailer suspension (new 4 wheel 8m capacity) does not depress as much as I would expect for a boat of that weight or more ..

When I bought the boat - she was on a single axle trailer ... the problem there was balance .. trailer was rear heavy and when unhitched had to have a support trestle under the stern. Definitely not best !

 

[Refueler]

As another forumite suggested, you maybe expecting too much...

Given the tendency for the boat to heel over and dive off to one side when speed increased ... I would not like to have more power !! I think it could only make it worse.

To all replying ... I DO appreciate all replies and I am not putting any aside. I actually like older boats - for me they have character ... I am not a person for todays designs which like cars seem to have lost their individual characters. This boat I like for all its troubles and I really want to find a way to get her sorted.

I have the distinct feeling that the previous owner (Latvian living in Sweden) after swapping the motor / drive etc ... may have given up with it - unable to get her to run reliably. Lets see if we can get a result ...

First will be transfer as much gear weight fwd as possible... fill the water tank (full not partial to avoid freesurface effect).

 

[oldgit]

I understood your post .. I was just remarking that the drive trim facility is not as VP told me for trimming the drive when in use.

Yes the drive is down at max trim .. I cannot see any way to increase that. I would be extremely reluctant to start adding wedges etc as another suggests.

Raising by one hole ? because of the bigger engine and increased stern draft - its not so easy to get at the pin .. its really a lift out job. Boat will be lifted maybe end of month - so can look then ... but any test will then have to wait till spring.

Drive angle vs water line ? Yes I plan that anyway ..

Attached is the original sales blurb for it ... with sketched line ..
View attachment 200665


OK - just took a couple of photos to show that she really does sit down at stern even when no-one on board.

View attachment 200667

View attachment 200668

I may be wrong - but I believe that the drive should not so buried like that when at rest and no-one on board. That at least a reasonable part of the drive head should be above water ?


OK ... more info :

There is little on board in terms of gear ... the anchor is a 5lb grapnel .. and sits in the locker under cockpit sole. That can go fwd into the bow locker. The behind transom bench backrest - are mooring ropes only. Can always reduce the number or put fwd as well - leaving just a couple in stern.
I have been considering adding a proper stemhead fitting and anchor .. but the boat has no naval pipe or chain locker. I am loathe to start cutting the deck etc. But it can be looked at. Up to now - I have used a small fluke anchor with Ankoralina reel ...
The sales page - you can see thw water tank right in the forefoot where a chain locker would usually go ..

That is definitely a bit low.
Your steering fork seals must be in very good condition.
The first signs are a weep at the top of the steering fork where it attaches to the steering arm.Lots of grease will delay the moment when the fork seals need replacing.
This is of course a lift out leg off jobby and best done next time you replace your rubberware.

 

[aerobat]

Given the tendency for the boat to heel over and dive off to one side when speed increased ... I would not like to have more power !! I think it could only make it worse.

I already replied you in your older thread . I had exactly the same problem on my previous searay sundancer 240 with veering off on plane and i spent a long time to sort it out .

your bow is to low on plane and starts bowsurfing, believe it or not . You try to plane with too much weight infront and/or to low drivetrim and trimtabs . The 240 sundancer liked to plane only with a high deck angle and assheavy , any try to bring the bow more down resulted in veering her off .

your second problem is lack on power with several people onboard . You try to compensate by moving weigh to the front to plane out at all but unfortunetly worsen your situation then while being on plane ( see above )

What you need is enough power and trim down on "takeoff" and immediately trim up again when on plane .

You have no real drivetrim so can only operate with the tabs .

 

[benjenbav]

There is a certain irony in Refueler posting on the topic of almost not having refuelled sufficiently.

But, I’m glad it worked out well in the end. Can’t think of a cheap fix other than ballasting forward.

 

[Refueler]

That is definitely a bit low.
Your steering fork seals must be in very good condition.
The first signs are a weep at the top of the steering fork where it attaches to the steering arm.Lots of grease will delay the moment when the fork seals need replacing.
This is of course a lift out leg off jobby and best done next time you replace your rubberware.

Other mobo people in the harbour reckon I have a torque bias ... to turn wheel to stbd - is a bit more effort than to turn to port ... and when this last river trip .. the helm wanted to drift off to port ..

 

[Refueler]

I already replied you in your older thread . I had exactly the same problem on my previous searay sundancer 240 with veering off on plane and i spent a long time to sort it out .

your bow is to low on plane and starts bowsurfing, believe it or not . You try to plane with too much weight infront and/or to low drivetrim and trimtabs . The 240 sundancer liked to plane only with a high deck angle and assheavy , any try to bring the bow more down resulted in veering her off .

your second problem is lack on power with several people onboard . You try to compensate by moving weigh to the front to plane out at all but unfortunetly worsen your situation then while being on plane ( see above )

What you need is enough power and trim down on "takeoff" and immediately trim up again when on plane .

You have no real drivetrim so can only operate with the tabs .

I found when I am without such number of people on board .. that exactly that ...

I use the tabs to bow down and get her to start planing .. her speed then increases at a faster rate .... while speed goes up - I bring tabs back up bit by bit .. taking care not to initiate bow veering off !

But when she has guests on board .. the initial part cannot be done ..

 

[Chris_d]

Other mobo people in the harbour reckon I have a torque bias ... to turn wheel to stbd - is a bit more effort than to turn to port ... and when this last river trip .. the helm wanted to drift off to port ..

This is possible,I had similar behavior with a 22ft cruiser with a 220hp petrol engine and outdrive, when the boat was new to me going onto the plane it would heel to starboard and veer off to port. It had a big single RH turning prop, the engine also RH rotated so combined torque effect of engine twisting the hull and prop reacting heeled it over, think of trying to hold the end of drill and the body reacting. Its a known issue on small speed boats and its common to see outboards mounted offset from the centre line to counter the torque effect. The cure in my case was to fit a LH prop so the two canceled each other out, easy done on an outdrive by switching the cable over on the gear actuator to effectively run in reverse.
Of course newer boats normally have duoprops so the issue mostly goes away. Worth investgating I was very surprised with the difference it made, you should also have small trim fin fitted to the outdrive which is there to counter the remaining torque effect, make sure its pointing in the correct direction!

 

[Alicatt]

Other mobo people in the harbour reckon I have a torque bias ... to turn wheel to stbd - is a bit more effort than to turn to port ... and when this last river trip .. the helm wanted to drift off to port ..

Found that on single outboard engined motorboats with a single single propeller, there is always a bit more effort required to turn one way than the other, with the duo prop on the last motorboat I was on it was as easy to go one way as the other.

It was the same with the little 13hp engine on our Casper, turning against the torque of the engine/propeller was slightly more difficult than going with it and that boat had a saildrive and a separate larger rudder not an outboard or outdrive.

Hunter does not have that problem at all, it makes no difference to which way you turn the wheel, it is easy in both directions, twin shafts with twin small blade rudders behind them, but there you do have a good bit of propwalk from the driving engine and the drag from an engine/propeller in neutral.

The twin duo props on outdrives did not seem to have any prop walk at all, it was a total different way of manoeuvring the boat compared with the twin shafts on our boat.

 

[Alicatt]

This is possible,I had similar behavior with a 22ft cruiser with a 220hp petrol engine and outdrive, when the boat was new to me going onto the plane it would heel to starboard and veer off to port.

Casper, while not a planning boat, if a passenger moved from one side to the other the boat would heel over to that side and veer off in the other direction, it kept you on your toes when some one was below and moving about.

 

[Fire99]

I'm taking a step back here and going back to basics. My old Shetland Black Prince 23 with 200hp (and a healthy one at that) booked in at around 2 tonnes and to be honest she didn't leap onto the plane though she did get there and with 2 adults, around 20kts (maybe an extra couple on a good day) was where she was at.

I think with the Primor, she's a little lighter (but I'd say not by much with the re-engine) but she is at least 30hp down on the Shetland, if both Shetland and Primor engines were in perfect form. Your Primor engine may have lost a few ponies along the way.. That plus the issue of weight distribution of the heavier engine, I'm not surprised by your figures. I'd guess that with 4+ adults onboard and a relative lack of torque from the engine along with her balance issues, she may struggle.

I think the bottom line is the power increase of the new engine was not in any way high enough to compensate for the extra weight and stern down attitude. Honestly, you can adjust a little here and there but you'd need an engine with at least significantly greater torque in my opinion.

 

[aerobat]

But when she has guests on board .. the initial part cannot be done ..

You can try a lower pitched 4-5 blade pusher prop ( and give up top speed when light loaded ) but generally i still think you are simply asking too much .

For any 24 footer the weight of 5 adults all sitting aft is a significant factor because only the stern has to support the needed boyancy and lift .

When entertaining 5 guests on cocktail speeds - while they are asking you for action - just tell them you could of course give more but do not want to scare them off when you let the beast of the leash and hell breaks loose .