Lord Montague's River

[Poignard]

Not a lot of people know that

Lord Montague's

I remember a rather rude rugby song, version of the 12 days of christmas feturing the Lord Montague.

I wonder if he is the same one, or his son, Its a while since I played rugby.

I don't know but there was once a Lord Montague who, for some unknown reason, could not stand the sight of workmen. Whenever he moved around his estate, a servant had to go ahead of him and make sure the workmen were hidden out of sight until his lordship had passed by.

 

[dylanwinter]

I don't know but there was once a Lord Montague who, for some unknown reason, could not stand the sight of workmen. Whenever he moved around his estate, a servant had to go ahead of him and make sure the workmen were hidden out of sight until his lordship had passed by.

the pleasant young man in the skiff who took the £14 from me told me that current big cheese has banned the orange mooring bouys above a certain point of the river - towards the top they are are all white. Then there are no moorings at all - just the relentless striong of private jetties with their keep off signs.

It makes a lot of work for the harbour staff because the white ones have a tendency to burst and the mooring gear sinks

he was the bloke I asked about mooring further up river and he told me that they would have told me to move my boat out of site of his house

he said that the money made from boat owners pays for the losses made on the rest of the estate

the massive green house on the East bank that looks like a University hall of residence belongs to man who made his money eviscertaing chickens

now that is what I call research

D

 

[Mudisox]

Sorry but of all the Solent, the river is still a gem. One can land and I often do on the west bank above the new Marina and walk the dog. I can and do still anchor if a vacant buoy is not available[ having asked the man in the launch if possible], and the place has not changed as much as almost anywhere else in the 55 years that I have been going. The estate has to make a profit in order to provide the nice view and to be sure the Hotel has always been a disaster. [Mind you most pubs/hotels have become thus]. It was always a haven for the upper end of the yacht market, and if I compare it to say, the Hamble, it wins hands down. Compare it to Lymington, Yarmouth, Cowes - at least I can chance to see kingfishers and other wildlife in the quiet of the upper reaches. I too hate to pay to use my own anchor, but the seabed is now "owned" either by the crown or at least someone.

 

[Seajet]

Dylan,

for info the little docks mentioned were probably something to do with making landing craft, the place was busy at it before D-Day - and there were forward airfields around the area too.

An excellent book which refers to all this is ' Requiem For A Wren ' by Nevil Shute.

Exbury was also a secret Navy research base.

One gets the feeling that was all very positive Nazi knobbling stuff, pity it wasn't later turned inland a bit !

 

[Fantasie 19]

Your dislike of the landed gentry, motor boats, rich people and what you consider as overdevelopment is not what I watch KTL for. I don't want to be reminded of all the unpleasant things that I can do nothing about. I get that from the BBC everyday and hate every minute of it! Sorry for the rant but you may be falling into a trap and I very much hope you do not loose what has made KTL so refreshing.

Mainsail - you echo my thoughts.....

Dylan - what does it matter that someone has different taste to you in gates, or chooses to own a motor boat, or etc etc.. as a documentary maker surely that's not your remit, yours is just to show us (as you did, beautifully) what the place is like..... I'm a poor, 50 yr old yacht owning, sailor who loves boats (full stop) and the sea... if you don't like motorboats, or gates, or mooring with boats on them, don't film 'em!

Edit: Lot of folks said it better than I did, so apologies for the repetition...

In terms of history - Nelson's favourite ship (Agamemnon) was built at Bucklers Hard - the place must have been a real hive of industry in the 18th Century!

 

[jhr]

Dylan, personally I think you're being a bit rough on Lord Montague. I don't know if you've been to the Hamble yet but if/when you do, you will see what would have happened to the Beaulieu River if it hadn't been in private ownership all these years.

I'm not sure from the video how far up the river you went but Bailey's Hard, where I keep my boat, is peaceful and un-crowded. There are about 300 moorings on the river and 110 spaces in the Marina. Over a five mile river I wouldn't describe that as excessive. The "Private - keep out" signs are irritating but I like to sit on my boat, admiring the view, and reminding myself that the house owners have had to spend millions for their view, whilst I pay Lord Monty a grand or so a year for the same thing.

Newtown is beautiful, unspoiled etc. etc. but try going in there on a warm summer weekend and you will quickly understand the meaning of the word "overcrowded".

Glad you're enjoying the Solent, anyway: in many respects you are seeing it at the best time of the year....

 

[jhr]

I too hate to pay to use my own anchor, but the seabed is now "owned" either by the crown or at least someone.

Very unusually, and in spite of being tidal water, the river seabed is actually owned by Lord Montague (something to do with a Monastery round about the 12th Century, iirc) so he's free to charge people to anchor, and charge he does. Like a wounded rhino, maybe, but it's going to a good cause ....

 

[Blueboatman]

Ahem quote"one lifetime is not enough and if locals can't be shagged to make films about thjeir own patch then that leaves a bit of gap for outsiders to fill".

I think in essence this is where I remain in disagreement with what you are doing, if I am honest.
( I, just me,ok?)

There are many landlubbers and sailors capable of filming their own neck of the woods but they elect not to. A conscious sensitive and self deprecating thing even, perhaps.

Anathema to journalism, of course!
...And development and opportunism and self promotion and all that..

Which is -sort of- why so many go quietly about their business under sail, to get away from all that very thing. Far far from the Madding Crowds..?

 

[Seajet]

Blueboatman,

I agree we tend not to film our own areas, but that's because we largely take them for granted; I wish I had made a film of my moorings, and indeed the town where I live, 40 years ago.

Ditto many places around the Solent, East Cowes Marina springs to mind as once lovely !

Dylan is doing something unique, and dare I say in future his films will be treasured, in the same way that Alan Villiers took a cine camera on the last serious trading square riggers - now his films are history recorded...

 

[dylanwinter]

Mainsail - you echo my thoughts.....

Dylan - what does it matter that someone has different taste to you in gates, or chooses to own a motor boat, or etc etc.. as a documentary maker surely that's not your remit, yours is just to show us (as you did, beautifully) what the place is like..... I'm a poor, 50 yr old yacht owning, sailor who loves boats (full stop) and the sea... if you don't like motorboats, or gates, or mooring with boats on them, don't film 'em!

You make an interesting point.

Here is my perspective - please feel free to ignore it

This country has a fine tradition - Cobbett, Defoe, Stock ...the list is a large one.... of old blokes going around this fine country of ours saying what they like about places they visit

and also occasionally saying what they don't like about them

At first it was just the printed word, then it was words and lino-cuts, then still images.

I am lucky in that I am one of the first who can use moving images, pictures and the spoken word and has the means through the web of spreading the images and words.

it also gives me the freedom so say how things apppear to a middleclass bloke from middle england exploring the coastline of this rapidly changing country.



I think that what you are argueing for

is to remove the negative comments

you wish for me to turn my camera away from the unsightly

you wish me to turn it off when I see ostentatious houses with big gates and security cameras and private keep off signs

I should avoid and ignore the blue liquid pouring from the dye works into the Medway

not film the 20 jestkis roaring around the centre of Newcastle

or the drunken rock throwing denizens of the Tyne

or the centre of Hartlepool that has been destroyed by bad urban developments

what you seek is an uberbland take on this wonderful country and its amazing coastline.

You seek to strip the narrative of any contrast - any possibility of light or shade

I think that to try to make films about the Solent and ignore the triple decker mobos and the crass developments would be as bad as ignoring the upper reaches of Chichester Harbour, the X one designs, the Moths, the Hamble Scramble the Seals of Chichester harbour or the Housboats of bembridge (yes and mention how bad the harbour smells at low tide when they are all emptying their washing machines, baths and bogs straight into the slow moving trickle

To a bloke who comes to the Solent straight from Scotland it does seem like an incredibly crowded place

It is a wonderful place to sail with lots of safe places to visit.

in the solent you get to see some of the most amazing boat porn you will encounter anywhere in the World.

I celebrated the wonderful boats of HYC - but I am also sad when I see a great river ruined by being turned into a linear boat park.

The Solent is not alone - the Orwell has also been ruined by too many boats

I confess I am an East Coast Sailor - a man who prefers the Butley and Pyefleet to the Hamble and Monty's over exploited river bed

Sorry about that.

however, one of the wonderful things about the web is that you are free to ignore anything that is not to your taste.

of course, if bland is what you are after..... I refer you to Dimblebug, Ade and Coast.

Mine is a sea level view of the coast from an ordinary bloke

no helicopters, no low loaders, no overnights in hotels, no meals out, no rib in 24 hour attendance.

and this week.... no car so I cannot go sailing.... which is just the tiniest bit frustrating

D

 

[Seajet]

You make an interesting point.

Here is my perspective - please feel free to ignore it

This country has a fine tradition - Cobbett, Defoe, Stock ...the list is a large one.... of old blokes going around this fine country of ours saying what they like about places they visit

and also occasionally saying what they don't like about them

At first it was just the printed word, then it was words and lino-cuts, then still images.

I am lucky in that I am one of the first who can use moving images, pictures and the spoken word and has the means through the web of spreading the images and words.

it also gives me the freedom so say how things apppear to a middleclass bloke from middle england exploring the coastline of this rapidly changing country.



I think that what you are argueing for

is to remove the negative comments

you wish for me to turn my camera away from the unsightly

you wish me to turn it off when I see ostentatious houses with big gates and security cameras and private keep off signs

I should avoid and ignore the blue liquid pouring from the dye works into the Medway

not film the 20 jestkis roaring around the centre of Newcastle

or the drunken rock throwing denizens of the Tyne

or the centre of Hartlepool that has been destroyed by bad urban developments

what you seek is an uberbland take on this wonderful country and its amazing coastline.

You seek to strip the narrative of any contrast - any possibility of light or shade

I think that to try to make films about the Solent and ignore the triple decker mobos and the crass developments would be as bad as ignoring the upper reaches of Chichester Harbour, the X one designs, the Moths, the Hamble Scramble the Seals of Chichester harbour or the Housboats of bembridge (yes and mention how bad the harbour smells at low tide when they are all emptying their washing machines, baths and bogs straight into the slow moving trickle

To a bloke who comes to the Solent straight from Scotland it does seem like an incredibly crowded place

It is a wonderful place to sail with lots of safe places to visit.

in the solent you get to see some of the most amazing boat porn you will encounter anywhere in the World.

I celebrated the wonderful boats of HYC - but I am also sad when I see a great river ruined by being turned into a linear boat park.

The Solent is not alone - the Orwell has also been ruined by too many boats

I confess I am an East Coast Sailor - a man who prefers the Butley and Pyefleet to the Hamble and Monty's over exploited river bed

Sorry about that.

however, one of the wonderful things about the web is that you are free to ignore anything that is not to your taste.

of course, if bland is what you are after..... I refer you to Dimblebug, Ade and Coast.

Mine is a sea level view of the coast from an ordinary bloke

no helicopters, no low loaders, no overnights in hotels, no meals out, no rib in 24 hour attendance.


D

Dylan,

we'll keep that as your ' we'll fight them on the beaches ' speech, and spot on too !

 

[fergie_mac66]

Dylan,

we'll keep that as your ' we'll fight them on the beaches ' speech, and spot on too !

+1 not that it would be his style but the centaur as an aircraftcarrier, quadcopter on the flatdeck like , would add another perspective to some no go areas . camera up the mast views

 

[alant]

Dylan,

for info the little docks mentioned were probably something to do with making landing craft, the place was busy at it before D-Day - and there were forward airfields around the area too.

An excellent book which refers to all this is ' Requiem For A Wren ' by Nevil Shute.

Exbury was also a secret Navy research base.

One gets the feeling that was all very positive Nazi knobbling stuff, pity it wasn't later turned inland a bit !

Don't forget, they made Mulberry Harbour there as well.

Exbury, was SOE training place.

 

[Seajet]

alant,

as I'm sure you know they made bits of Mulberry Harbour all over the place !

There's the remains of a segment which broke free and somehow got past Langstone Harbour entrance into the harbour, now broken backed but still used by fishing boats.

 

[alant]

alant,

as I'm sure you know they made bits of Mulberry Harbour all over the place !

There's the remains of a segment which broke free and somehow got past Langstone Harbour entrance into the harbour, now broken backed but still used by fishing boats.

So?

 

[Seajet]

So?

So I thought you were interested in local history

 

[FairweatherDave]

Good debate on Dylan's vid. I always enjoy them and appreciate the work that goes in. Dylan's commentary will be subjective, accurate, inaccurate, prejudiced, whatever and if it was my home location I would be a little sensitive to how it was portrayed, but better to have it well filmed than not. They are free. Keep them coming. The funny thing is Dylan knew he was feeling a bit grumpy as he was talking. If people heard what I say to myself when I'm feeling a bit off ...... Expectations are dangerous things and Dylan had high hopes for the river ..... he's made an attractive first draft type film despite being a bit hacked off and only highlighted a well known issue too.

 

[steve350]

I enjoyed the video.
A bloke sails up a river, provides free, high quality images and says what's on his mind.
Well done Dylan.

 

[Houleaux]

A great video spoiled by the commentary.

Why attack other people's choices of boats etc. because they differ from your own? I just don't get it.

If I watch another of Dylan's videos it will be with the sound turned off.

 

[Tam Lin]

I think it is great to have a bit of a viewpoint with the video. So you might not agree but who says you have to? Without people having opinions and sharing them, we end up with a bland world where everything is the same and no one dares say what they think. Just about to watch Ade on ITV and will enjoy it but I bet he doesn't say anything remotely critical about anything!