Lobster Pots !!

[Tranona]

It's a two blade folder, offset, with a three inch shaft. As bombproof as you can get. Still, thanks for your good wishes


- W

Is that a 3 inch diameter shaft? Or 3 inches sticking out? The folding prop is not folded when running under motor - but just the same as a fixed blade prop, whirling around in the water at about 1000 rpm ready to catch anything going past the hull. As I said, only a fool thinks he is totally immune.

 

[Tranona]

Well the solent fisherfolk must be different beasts to the rest of the islands then.

You really don't get it do you? Yes, we have more rogue fishermen in the south, but as many have tried to explain to you the conditions are totally different. The concentration of pots in areas of high density traffic is what causes the problem. Your "solution" of not sailing in areas where there are pots would take out most of the convenient coastal passages for yachts. As I suggested come and try for yourself and then you might understand that it is a real problem - not just a few moaning yachties.

As an alternative indicator of the seriousness of the problem, go round the boatyards in Lymington, for example, in the winter when boats are ashore and count the number fitted with rope cutters. Owners don't spend £500-1000 on such items for fun!

 

[Seajet]

You really don't get it do you? Yes, we have more rogue fishermen in the south, but as many have tried to explain to you the conditions are totally different. The concentration of pots in areas of high density traffic is what causes the problem. Your "solution" of not sailing in areas where there are pots would take out most of the convenient coastal passages for yachts. As I suggested come and try for yourself and then you might understand that it is a real problem - not just a few moaning yachties.

As an alternative indicator of the seriousness of the problem, go round the boatyards in Lymington, for example, in the winter when boats are ashore and count the number fitted with rope cutters. Owners don't spend £500-1000 on such items for fun!

Tranona,

for once we agree; I might though have said these passages are essential rather than convenient, thinking of a man and wife crew and fatigue.

Or do the likes of Crynan seek to ban sailing as an elitist thing thought up in ' yacht clubs ', a phrase which says it all.

I've never been a member of anything other than sailing clubs, which were mostly developed by people who'd had enough of World War II; the person who first taught me to sail was Charlie Solley, a veteran of the Arctic Convoys who I'm sure never dared dream he'd survive let alone one day have his own little boat.

I have taken the expense and effort to train myself in seagoing since the early 1970's.

Now we get thoughtless types laying pots in busy channels without a clue about consideration and seamanship, calling themselves professional seamen ?

I've worked hard to get my boat and work on her myself spending my money locally but some berks think they can lay potentially lethal traps for any other boat ? Think again !

 

[prv]

However one has to be careful, it's well known that some fishermen place razor blades in the lines to knobble rivals stealing their catch.

I don't know whether that's true or not; it does sound like the sort of thing that would be spread as a rumour to keep outsiders away - but then maybe some who hear it could decide it's a good idea and do it for real.

Either way, Kevlar gloves (5/5 cut protection, 4/5 puncture protection) are under a tenner on eBay.

Pete

 

[cryan]

Tranona,

for once we agree; I might though have said these passages are essential rather than convenient, thinking of a man and wife crew and fatigue.

Or do the likes of Crynan seek to ban sailing as an elitist thing thought up in ' yacht clubs ', a phrase which says it all.

I've never been a member of anything other than sailing clubs, which were mostly developed by people who'd had enough of World War II; the person who first taught me to sail was Charlie Solley, a veteran of the Arctic Convoys who I'm sure never dared dream he'd survive let alone one day have his own little boat.

I have taken the expense and effort to train myself in seagoing since the early 1970's.

Now we get thoughtless types laying pots in busy channels without a clue about consideration and seamanship, calling themselves professional seamen ?

I've worked hard to get my boat and work on her myself spending my money locally but some berks think they can lay potentially lethal traps for any other boat ? Think again !

I don't seek to ban sailing! I certainly don't think it is elitist. I am only advocating that we should all be more considerate of our fellow men. If you see pots steer clear, if you don't and snag them, try and minimise the damage. Apart from the obviousness about fishing in the jurisdiction of naval bases etc. creels are only shot where the catch is, not willy nilly as suggested. Fishermen are not monsters their the same as everyone else, just trying to get by. As for myths of razor blades? Even if one fisherman did try to push blades between the rope strands I think he would find that the motion of the rope in the water would cut his own lines.
I just find the talk of vigilantism and rumour mongering a bit distasteful. So far in this thread we have had people likening fishermen to gangsters and drug dealers, appoint themselves as water bailiffs and accuse fishermen of booby trapping gear. I've known a fair few fishermen over the years including from the south coast and I've always found them reasonable, as I have found most leisure boaters. A creel riser line is at most 2 inches diameter and the markers about football size. The Solent is big enough for everyone if they just take care.
All I'm advocating is that people take a step back and put things in perspective. I didn't expect to be crucified for that!

 

[Seajet]

I don't know whether that's true or not; it does sound like the sort of thing that would be spread as a rumour to keep outsiders away - but then maybe some who hear it could decide it's a good idea and do it for real.

Either way, Kevlar gloves (5/5 cut protection, 4/5 puncture protection) are under a tenner on eBay.

Pete

Kevlar gloves ?

Now I have to get dressed up like Batman to go for a sail ?!

 

[Tranona]

The Solent is big enough for everyone if they just take care.
All I'm advocating is that people take a step back and put things in perspective. I didn't expect to be crucified for that!

Of course we take care! How many more times do you need to be told that is not enough. It is not getting at most fishermen, just recognising that it is often impossible to see markers in the sort of tidal and sea conditions if they are just small plastic containers with no flags on them.

Please come down with me and I will take you on a short passage from Hurst Castle to Old Harry and show you what the problem is.

Not against fishermen - will be in the docks tomorrow morning buying my lobster, crab and scallops for fathers day lunch. Just wish they were more careful about marking their pots - particularly the whelk and cuttlefish ones which are all dark blue plastic! A flag on a pole would give us a fighting chance of seeing them when the tide is running at 3 knots and there is a 6' swell - with the boat hard on the wind.

 

[Greenheart]

Quite right Tranona.

Such a pity if the essential convenience of pot-markers being visible in accordance with the law relating particularly to them, is regarded by fishermen as too much trouble.

That's the only issue here isn't it? No-one's saying that pots should not be used, or that they don't have some right to occupy areas which other vessels also need to traverse...

...but if they're routinely not marked as required by the law in the interests of visibility, then their owners can't expect a shred of understanding from snared boats' crews.

Isn't it much easier to buy or construct a danbuoy to mark a pot-line, than to accept losses caused by detached or damaged pots/lines/buoys? Plus, if this were attended to, the long-running animosity would dissipate in days.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I am only advocating that we should all be more considerate of our fellow men.

Agreed.
Part of that consideration is that fishermen should mark their equipment properly. An old oil container is not sufficient; a proper danbuoy with a flag is what is needed.

 

[webcraft]

. . . only a fool thinks he is totally immune.

Thanks.

I am of course too polite to say what I think of you on here.

I would say though that you and your ilk are why so many fishermen and others who go to sea for a living refer to yachties as WAFIs.

- W

 

[Seajet]

WAFI's with far more training, seamanship, intelligence and consideration to others than you ?

 

[Tranona]

Thanks.

I am of course too polite to say what I think of you on here.

I would say though that you and your ilk are why so many fishermen and others who go to sea for a living refer to yachties as WAFIs.

- W

You can say what you like about me. Just telling you like it is. If you read this thread and all of the previous threads, articles reports etc on this subject over the years, you will find my views represent the majority. Helped no doubt in my case by half a lifetime dealing with the consequences of fouling unmarked pots. This includes being there when the dead body is brought in and commiserating with boat owners when they get the bill for the damage - never mind the number of calls to the coastguard and lifeboat to rescue disabled boats.

Fine if you want to bury your head in the sand just because you have been fortunate enough not to suffer - yet!

 

[onesea]

I am only advocating that we should all be more considerate of our fellow men.

Can you live by your own words? Respect the fact that there are other areas in the world (where it seems you have little understanding), where pots and other random fishing (normally) gear are left poorly marked in channels and fairways...
Where they serve as a hazard to other water users...

I would say though that you and your ilk are why so many fishermen and others who go to sea for a living refer to yachties as WAFIs.

Yup so do most other industries at sea, and they are not always very nice about each other either and so life at sea goes on...

 

[single]

Not read all the posts but what gest me is when there is a line between the markers.If they must join them why not have the joins way under water and the marker buoy with a sinker weight so atleast its less likely to snag a keel,rudder or prop? Round here they are pretty good with black flags on poles but i'm never sure if a line is going to another that I didn't spot.

 

[cryan]

Can you live by your own words? Respect the fact that there are other areas in the world (where it seems you have little understanding).

I have done four circumnavigations, half way and back countless times, and probably close to half a million miles steamed at sea (I have given up counting) and for most of that sailing out of Southampton. I am more than aware of the way things are in other parts of the world, as well as the Solent.
I always practice what I preach and try and meet strangers and friends with a smile in the morning.

 

[jac]

Cryan, I respect your experience as a sailor but we are talking about different things.

You mention 2 inch lines, gear recovered by winch - basically the mark of professionals.

That is not what we see.

We see maybe 1/2 inch floating, recovered by small open boats with no hint of professionalism anywhere near them.

They are also operating above the law. Soton bylaws state that fishing gear must not be left unattended, QHM specify danbuoys and radar reflectors. Those type of pots are no issue to most people.

We just want the same consideration that you are advocating.

 

[lenten]

wonderful ----another bash the fishermen thread----with another load of sanctimonious posts ---not doubt written by posters who have never in their broken the speed limit----parked on a double yellow line or broken any other law in their life----regards lentenrose

 

[onesea]

I always practice what I preach and try and meet strangers and friends with a smile in the morning.

I commend you (I try to do it at the midnight watch handover as well), yet I am still honest enough to say I still curse as you yet again when at the last moment I have to take all but emergency action due to fishing gear.

Although having just peaked at your profile, a marine engineer by trade. So how many of your circumnavigations where yo on the bridge or blissfully down in the engine room?

wonderful ----another bash the fishermen thread----with another load of sanctimonious posts ---not doubt written by posters who have never in their broken the speed limit----parked on a double yellow line or broken any other law in their life----regards lentenrose

Yeah but I do not go around throwing bricks on roads and motorways for other road users to dodge either.... We all speed a little, berth our boats where should not really etc...

 

[Deleted member 36384]

wonderful ----another bash the fishermen thread----with another load of sanctimonious posts ---not doubt written by posters who have never in their broken the speed limit----parked on a double yellow line or broken any other law in their life----regards lentenrose

So why do some fishermen mark their pots so poorly? Have a go at explaining that please, you know why sailors, or WAFI as perhaps you may know us, have an issue with fishermen who poorly mark their pots. So why, help us to understand why we think some of the humble fisherman are unsafe, unprofessional and a liability to themselves and other small boat users? Note that I said some, which means not all. Go on do enlighten us, or at least offer a theory, a guess, if you can. I don't think you can because clearly you are incapable of understanding what our complaint is about otherwise you wouldn't have made that comment. If you read the post a yachtsman has been killed because of his actions after fouling pot lines.

Also cryan, you have had a lot to say on this, so come on, give an explanation why a fisherman would choose to mark his pots so ineffectively.

Here is my take on why, based on direct experience of one person in particluar, in Aberdeen. This man was entitled to have a mooring on the River Dee for his small, +/- 20' fishing boat because his uncle had been a fisherman. The chap took over his uncles boat but he was not a professional fisherman, he actually dealt second hand motorbikes. From time to time he went out in his boat and dropped creels. It was a hobby, low cost operation that supllemmenetd a low income, he marked them with whatever was available at the time. He was one of the boys, well known, a good guy, RNLI Sea Check and all that, but a complete amateur who pretended to fish and got himself into bother from time to time - all a good laugh afterwards! At one time you could see pot markers stacked up at the side of the fish sheds at Aberdeen from fishermen who took the job seriously. It's a sad fact that if one reads MCA reports about sunken fishing vessels, a lot of incidents are due to unprofessional behaviour: alcohol, excessive hours, faulty equipment, poor maintenance, complacency. It gives an image that a certain proportion of these salt of the earths, hard working fisher folk are in fact idiots, unprofessional seamen, who have little respect for doing the right thing - a good enough, make do attitude, and they have the cheek to call us WAFI - my hairy fat arse they do.

Before you ram it down my neck, remember that I started out by saying that some fishermen are unprofessional.

 

[MASH]

WAFI?