lobster pots -an ex fishermans view

[lenten]

i used to fish 120 single pots with 120 flourescent pink small (third of the size of a football) bouys---if mbm campaign had its way this is how it would have affected me---1. flagged sticks. to get a flag 1 metre above the water you need almost the same length wieghted and submerged . when hand hauling a pot the bouy was chucked into a convenient corner and forgotten.after emptying even as the pot was shot over the side i was steaming to the next one-i didn t even look at the rope and bouy going over the side----if i had to stow then handle a 2 metre stick with each pot i reckon it would it would of added 30 seconds a pot x 120= 1 hour a day at 5 1/2 days a week= 5 1/2 hours 2. extra expense- i leave to you to calculate the extra expense of 120 flagged bouys with lights 3. extra expense-the reason i used small bouys was to minimise the drag in a gale-the added flotation of mbms option would have got my pots moving and breaking-----------in the spirit of compromise if had adopted mbms criteria and worked extra hours with extra expense what would you have given me in return--perhaps to avoid fouling pots an 8 knot speed limit for pleasure boats inside the 12 mile limit reducing to 5 knots in known heavily fished areas with a crewman keeping watch on the bows --regards lenten

 

[rbcoomer]

Whilst I've never been entangled in lines to poorly marked pots (possibly because I've not been boating long enough or perhaps because I've been lucky?) and I do have some sympathy with your comments; I don't see how any fisherman's profits can be more important than safety of others.

Cost issues aside - not everyone who has a boat is rich and some are perhaps even fishermen or other essential marine users - taking a bit of extra time and care over a job to ensure safety isn't uncommon in any industry so why should fishing be any different? You are basically arguing that speed for a fisherman to deploy pots is more important than perhaps the life of some sailor who could become entangled by a badly marked pot in poor visibility whilst heading for the shelter of inshore waters!

Leisure users bring as much prosperity (or more) in the form of tourism to some areas as fishing does. Coastal waters are very important for this, so to impose a speed limit on craft inside 12 miles is about as practical as saying that there should be no pots within 12 miles! I'm not a watersports person, but imagine that skiing at 8kts would be difficult?

On the subject of costs however I would agree that this is a burden that should not be borne by the fisherman, but perhaps by the EU? After all, there is always money available for local councils to squander on 20' long cycle lanes to nowhere or other pointless H&S 'initiatives'! It's about time we had something in return for our expensive membership of this 'club' that is supposed to be so beneficial...

I also don't believe most boaters object to small hi-viz buoys - it's more the plastic oil cans, lemonade/milk bottles and/or other floating garbage that gets used! (Yes I have seen a neat row of plastic milk cartons used!) Perhaps the idea of 1M flags could be adopted for busy channels etc rather than all areas?

P.S. above not directed at you, it's good that you posted an different perspective...

 

[AndieMac]

Wouldn't it be worth the extra time involved just to ensure the gear was retrievable again, I don't imagine replacing pots reguarly would be cheap.

I don't think any profession likes to be told how to do things, especially from a mostly recreational lobby group, but personally I'd be wanting to protect the gear sitting on the bottom of the sea, and if the age old method wasn't working, change it.

 

[henryf]

But why shouldn't the cost be met by the fishermen? We aren't talking about the odd pot tucked away in a quiet backwater, we're talking in the middle of navigable channels.

I couldn't just leave stuff in the middle of the road as art of my business or dig holes then not mark them properly. I have to mark the roadworks properly at my expense.

Have clearly identifiable ownership marks on the pots which we all understand and be available for claims against you should they cause damage and be determined as under marked.

Unmarked pots are removed and destroyed or sold on.

It is a ridiculous situation to have black semi submerged marks and see them as acceptable.

Henry

 

[MoodySabre]

I don't see how any fisherman's profits can be more important than safety of others.

In one.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

It sounds to me that the OP was pretty sensible about how he laid his pots and I can, sort of, see his POV. The bad apples are spoiling his barrel too. Perhaps some self policing amongst fishermen would also help, and maybe a declaration that any pot not properly marked becomes public property along with any content. OK the latter is a bit extreme

 

[DAKA]

I don't see how any fisherman's profits can be more important than safety of others.
f inshore waters!

Agreed.
63 men died while building the Forth Bridge 100 years ago and 'elf n safety ' has moved on.

ALL industries have incurred massive additional costs over the last 100 years in order to keep employees and public safe; from a beach hut selling butties to the Canary Wharf high rise . Fishermen shouldnt be exempt from modernisation, they were quick enough to move away from Hemp rope / nets that rot away when disguarded and start using man made materials which are a major cause of the issue.

perhaps the use of man made materials for fishing tackle should be banned and hemp should be used again that will just rot away when finished with.

 

[Mariner69]

Agreed.

perhaps the use of man made materials for fishing tackle should be banned and hemp should be used again that will just rot away when finished with.

+1

 

[LittleShip]

with 120 flourescent pink small (third of the size of a football) bouys regards lenten

Personally I would say you were at least half way there, in as much as boaters would have a better chance of seeing your markers than the ones that are as others have stated black, green or just a plastic bottle.

I have a hobby licence for potting and I’m sure that you know that if I lay a pot it has to be clearly marked with a flag and marked with my boat name. Why should we be expected to accept anything less from a professional body.: mad:

I'm all in favour of lifting any pot that is incorrectly marked and then charging for the pot to be returned or sold to any fisherman that is known to mark his pots.

If you travel across the Irish Sea you will find very large pot markers 30 miles off shore so that the ships don’t run over them, clearly a case of it's cheaper to put a decent marker on than loose the gear.

I have said this before .....

It is a matter of time before somebody looses their life due to a potter not marking his pot in accordance with the guidelines, mind you if he hasn’t put his name on it H&S or official bodies wouldn’t be able find the culprit, maybe that’s why it isn’t done.

Tom

 

[Searush]

TBH, bright bouys close to rocks offer little risk to planing MoBo's - they won't be zapping around the rocks at speed will they?

As others have said why would anyone use dark bouys offshore or in channels? It's bonkers & the high probability of loss of gear should be enough to discourage people who do it.

 

[dunmor]

hobby licence

Personally I would say you were at least half way there, in as much as boaters would have a better chance of seeing your markers than the ones that are as others have stated black, green or just a plastic bottle.

I have a hobby licence for potting and I’m sure that you know that if I lay a pot it has to be clearly marked with a flag and marked with my boat name. Why should we be expected to accept anything less from a professional body.: mad:

I'm all in favour of lifting any pot that is incorrectly marked and then charging for the pot to be returned or sold to any fisherman that is known to mark his pots.

If you travel across the Irish Sea you will find very large pot markers 30 miles off shore so that the ships don’t run over them, clearly a case of it's cheaper to put a decent marker on than loose the gear.

I have said this before .....

It is a matter of time before somebody looses their life due to a potter not marking his pot in accordance with the guidelines, mind you if he hasn’t put his name on it H&S or official bodies wouldn’t be able find the culprit, maybe that’s why it isn’t done.

Tom

Whats This Hobby License? And How Do I Get One.

 

[Kawasaki]

Whats This Hobby License? And How Do I Get One.

Local areas will have different rules/regulations
A kinda rule of thumb is X No. of crustacea per day etc
Check out Yer Local Fisheries org
Or check the MCA for your area.

 

[oceanfroggie]

Rope cutters on shafts at best just slice the rope without incident, at worst enable you to limp home. We've zapped a few off the SW coast of Ireland in our time, and a salmon drift net, all in daft locations well offshore. I've no sympathy for badly marked pots. Off SE Irish coast most seem to have decent top mark flags making them easy to see compared to cork/Kerry coasts.

 

[tinkicker0]

i used to fish 120 single pots with 120 flourescent pink small (third of the size of a football) bouys---if mbm campaign had its way this is how it would have affected me---1. flagged sticks. to get a flag 1 metre above the water you need almost the same length wieghted and submerged . when hand hauling a pot the bouy was chucked into a convenient corner and forgotten.after emptying even as the pot was shot over the side i was steaming to the next one-i didn t even look at the rope and bouy going over the side----if i had to stow then handle a 2 metre stick with each pot i reckon it would it would of added 30 seconds a pot x 120= 1 hour a day at 5 1/2 days a week= 5 1/2 hours 2. extra expense- i leave to you to calculate the extra expense of 120 flagged bouys with lights 3. extra expense-the reason i used small bouys was to minimise the drag in a gale-the added flotation of mbms option would have got my pots moving and breaking-----------in the spirit of compromise if had adopted mbms criteria and worked extra hours with extra expense what would you have given me in return--perhaps to avoid fouling pots an 8 knot speed limit for pleasure boats inside the 12 mile limit reducing to 5 knots in known heavily fished areas with a crewman keeping watch on the bows --regards lenten

And would you be willing to bear the cost of a nice 40 foot mobo that has gone to the bottom with ripped out sterngear because of your saving 5.5 hours?

No?

Then why should the innocent skipper or insurance company have to, because you resist marking your gear effectively in the name of profit?

 

[gjgm]

i used to fish 120 single pots with 120 flourescent pink small (third of the size of a football) bouys---if mbm campaign had its way this is how it would have affected me---1. flagged sticks. to get a flag 1 metre above the water you need almost the same length wieghted and submerged . when hand hauling a pot the bouy was chucked into a convenient corner and forgotten.after emptying even as the pot was shot over the side i was steaming to the next one-i didn t even look at the rope and bouy going over the side----if i had to stow then handle a 2 metre stick with each pot i reckon it would it would of added 30 seconds a pot x 120= 1 hour a day at 5 1/2 days a week= 5 1/2 hours 2. extra expense- i leave to you to calculate the extra expense of 120 flagged bouys with lights 3. extra expense-the reason i used small bouys was to minimise the drag in a gale-the added flotation of mbms option would have got my pots moving and breaking-----------in the spirit of compromise if had adopted mbms criteria and worked extra hours with extra expense what would you have given me in return--perhaps to avoid fouling pots an 8 knot speed limit for pleasure boats inside the 12 mile limit reducing to 5 knots in known heavily fished areas with a crewman keeping watch on the bows --regards lenten

Thanks for a different point of view, anyway.Like others, I cant really go along with the explanation that it is too time consuming when hand hauling pots to use bigger markers and flags. I can see the point though that larger bouys might drag more.
What percentage of fisherman these days are hand hauling? Many boats I see about have some sort of winch, even on quite small boats-18 ft maybe? And what percentage of pot laying is done these days from such smaller boats instead of something more substantial that perhaps negates your argument?

 

[lenten]

hi tin kicker---you think 5 1/2 hours is a small price to pay for your safety but added up--i fished my 12 foot 6 inch boat 36 weeks a year for 6 years ---i make that 1200 hours doing a dangerous job----in 14 years fishing i personally knew well probably less than a hundred fishermen of those---1 killed engineroom accident-1 drowned-1 lost arm capstan accident-i broke arm capstan accident-1 shot over tangled in pot ropes then hauled back and saved-1 came fast capsized and sunk- saved--1 sunk in collision-saved----- 1 tender overturned 1/4 mile from shore -skipper couldn t swim - saved initially by grabbing the dogs tail then hanging on to overturned dinghy-crew reckoned he sank 30 feet to the bottom before he got thighs boot off-rescued----5 1/2 hours would make you safer but would put me potentially at more risk---- although my bouys were small -flourescent pink is spottable at the low speeds i did------my comments about speed limits and lookouts on the bow although tongue in cheek would cut down on pot accidents and maybe save your hypothetical 40 foot mobo----regards lenten

 

[henryf]

So are you suggesting we should all cruise at 7 knots in order to reduce the risk of fouling gear on poorly marked or submerged markers?

I have no issue in a harbour or river, but on the North channel by the Needles on a straight course for Poole in the open water I think you might be expecting a little too much from me. The responsibility lies with the people putting the hazards in the water.

Next you'll be arguing all dwellings should be bungalows because constantly clipping and unclipping a safety harness when working at height takes too long, or motorists should drive everywhere at 20 miles an hour to spare people doing roadworks the hassle (and risk on a motorway), of having to erect warning signs and spend a fortune on cones.

Henry

 

[BlackMagic]

as a commercial skipper I would make the following points.
The potters in the area my boat is working at the moment all use home made dan buoy type markers with flags 1m+ above the water as the regs require here and they work fine despite some of the biggest tides in the UK.
The local unlicenced lobster pirate also uses the same flags but drops them on the leading lights line of the narrow harbour entrance despite the harbour authorities dragging them out of the way when they are at sea. I sail day and night and unlight black flags are surprisingly invisible in the dark! The boat runs on twin jets and lines up thru our jet intakes are a pain in the **** to clear and disabling both my jets on the run in down the leading lights in the dark with a freshening wind and a big tide is not a nice thought!
As a pleasure boater I used to fish up to the rocks in my little 14ft cathedral hull boat and did once snag an unmarked or badly marked pot line with my 40hp motor running at top speed just offshore. One does stop suddenly when that happens.
If you want to pot mark the things properly. If you can't do that then you need to learn your trade or get a shore job before you kill someone! It might be me and I would be highly miffed.

 

[henryf]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for a very accurate post. As a hobby skipper I'm glad it's not just me that finds pots in routinely navigated water to the point where I question my ability to position my boat. Surely no one would put a pot there I think to myself, but they do!

Henry

 

[rubberduck]

Cost me a few quid last year when my starboard outdrive ate some netting, required a partial rebuild but to Volvo's credit kept on going. Reminds me of the story of the SAS guy who pulled over on a motorway to help a damsel in distress. Another car hit a discarded bottle on the road & lost it, taking out the SAS man on the hard shoulder. We are told that his parents never got over it.
Everyone has the right to make a living but try not to screw it up for others whilst doing so.
I also remember being in Burnham marina watching a couple of **** fishermen sneakily putting netting around the pontoon to catch their dinner.Kids werent impressed with their method of killing the poor creatures. One of them had the cheek to have a go at my son Sam about not helping me do something, I was showing him how to do it at the time. That's the closest I have seen Sam actually using his black belt 3rd dan skills in anger. The guy was lucky we only reported him to the harbour master.