xhurleyman
Member
Can someone give me information about the performance of these boats. How they sail etc.
Thank you
Thank you
LM 27 or 28
- Thread starter xhurleyman
- Start date
PetiteFleur
Well-known member
My only experience of the LM27 was watching one trying to berth at Ramsgate marina many years ago - it just would not reverse in a straight line. Don't know the reason so don't take my view as correct. But they do seem a nice comfortable boat.
pandos
Well-known member
If you are in the market for one of these ,look also at the Mascot range.
Very similar...my friend just bought a 910 in Denmark, looks like a beautiful boat...
And good value to be had in that part of the world...
Very similar...my friend just bought a 910 in Denmark, looks like a beautiful boat...
And good value to be had in that part of the world...
V1701
Well-known member
Yachtsnet archive page has info about their sailing qualities and the differences between them. I'd go for a 28 if you can get one, a bit more room & the wheelhouse has doors where the 27 I think does not. They're good quality boats and well suited to sailing in UK weather...
LittleSister
Well-known member
The LMs are at the 'sailing' end of 'motor-sailers'.
I have read a number of magazine reviews of the LM27 where the reviewer was surprised by their performance in terms of speed and handling, and not at all what they expected from its bluff bow, modest rig, etc.. They are not close-winded boats, though, and consensus seems to be they are best kept 50 degrees off the wind under sail. (They'll sail closer, but leeway gets excessive. If you want to go closer upwind, put the motor on.) I find my LM27 satisfying to sail, and surprisingly fast. It does have a tendency to roll in certain conditions.
The design and layout is quite different from the run of the mill boat of its era: full of clever little design features, as well as a distinctive Scandinavian decor. The quality of construction is markedly better than most UK boats of its era. (LM's expertise in GRP moulding eventually led to it abandoning boatbuilding for better, more reliable returns elsewhere: it's now the largest manufacturer of wind turbine blades in the world.)
The LM27 (actually about 27.5 feet long) is by a long way the most popular model LM you'll find in the UK. (Around 1,500 were built - the world record for motor-sailers, I think). In Denmark and around the Baltic you'll find a wider range of LMs, from IIRC 16ft to IIRC 34ft, and from motor launches to sporty yachts, as well as the motor-sailers LM is best known for here.
The LM 27 (itself a development of the earlier LM23) has a shoal draft long keel with encapsulated ballast, and a hull shape influenced by traditional Baltic fishing boats, and was built from IIRC about 1973 to 1982. Engines are usually Bukh DV20s, but some had Volvos or a Bukh DV36. (The LM24 is a smaller sister of the LM27, and is very similar, but does not have a separate forecabin and usually has a Bukh DV10.)
The LM28, from about 1982, is a significant updating of the LM27 concept. It has a more 'yacht' shaped hull, more modern styling, and a fin keel or bilge keels. I have not sailed one but I expect that it is an improvement in many respects on the LM27, but it's not trying to be a different type of boat (that's a good thing!). The LM28 was part of a range of similar boats - the LM26 (an updated LM24), LM30 and LM32.
Lots more info and advice available from the English language owners' association linked below. (There's also a very active Danish language owners club, website and Facebook page.)
Because of the number of LMs in active use (especially around the Baltic, but also found around the Med, US & Canada, etc.), many spares and accessories (including canopies and sails, mast, plus various other fittings) are still available off the shelf from the various Danish firms who originally supplied LM.
I hope that helps.
I have read a number of magazine reviews of the LM27 where the reviewer was surprised by their performance in terms of speed and handling, and not at all what they expected from its bluff bow, modest rig, etc.. They are not close-winded boats, though, and consensus seems to be they are best kept 50 degrees off the wind under sail. (They'll sail closer, but leeway gets excessive. If you want to go closer upwind, put the motor on.) I find my LM27 satisfying to sail, and surprisingly fast. It does have a tendency to roll in certain conditions.
The design and layout is quite different from the run of the mill boat of its era: full of clever little design features, as well as a distinctive Scandinavian decor. The quality of construction is markedly better than most UK boats of its era. (LM's expertise in GRP moulding eventually led to it abandoning boatbuilding for better, more reliable returns elsewhere: it's now the largest manufacturer of wind turbine blades in the world.)
The LM27 (actually about 27.5 feet long) is by a long way the most popular model LM you'll find in the UK. (Around 1,500 were built - the world record for motor-sailers, I think). In Denmark and around the Baltic you'll find a wider range of LMs, from IIRC 16ft to IIRC 34ft, and from motor launches to sporty yachts, as well as the motor-sailers LM is best known for here.
The LM 27 (itself a development of the earlier LM23) has a shoal draft long keel with encapsulated ballast, and a hull shape influenced by traditional Baltic fishing boats, and was built from IIRC about 1973 to 1982. Engines are usually Bukh DV20s, but some had Volvos or a Bukh DV36. (The LM24 is a smaller sister of the LM27, and is very similar, but does not have a separate forecabin and usually has a Bukh DV10.)
The LM28, from about 1982, is a significant updating of the LM27 concept. It has a more 'yacht' shaped hull, more modern styling, and a fin keel or bilge keels. I have not sailed one but I expect that it is an improvement in many respects on the LM27, but it's not trying to be a different type of boat (that's a good thing!). The LM28 was part of a range of similar boats - the LM26 (an updated LM24), LM30 and LM32.
Lots more info and advice available from the English language owners' association linked below. (There's also a very active Danish language owners club, website and Facebook page.)
Because of the number of LMs in active use (especially around the Baltic, but also found around the Med, US & Canada, etc.), many spares and accessories (including canopies and sails, mast, plus various other fittings) are still available off the shelf from the various Danish firms who originally supplied LM.
I hope that helps.
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Davy_S
Well-known member
The later version is the Scanyacht 290, made in the uk.
Cygnus SCANYACHT 290 - Cygnus Marine
Cygnus SCANYACHT 290 - Cygnus Marine
LittleSister
Well-known member
The Scanyacht 290 is a version of the LM27. Scanyacht had been the UK importers for LMs, and bought LM27 moulds from LM when they ceased production. The 290 was available with various options - deeper keel, taller rig, different internal layouts, etc.
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
I've sailed in company with an LM owned by a friend ; I think a 28. Unsurprisingly, my Moody 31 walked away from it on a comfortable beam reach, which I'd expect to be the LM's best point of sail. I'd echo the comments about them being motor-sailers with reasonable (though not sparkling) sailing capability. The difference in speed might be less in a stronger wind; I got the impression it was canvassed for comfort rather than performance. The accommodation is excellent, though somewhat unconventional.
girlofwight
Active member
My father worked for the importers, ScanYachts ,for many years, and I was sometimes co-opted to deliveries.
You aren't likely to be buying one for speed! But they very much are motor sailers rather than motor boats with sails, and they have a steady sailing performance and good weather handling.
One thing to watch - although they have dual steering, my understanding is they didn't have dual engine controls as standard, which makes manoeuvring from cockpit hard work - the engine control is in the wheelhouse. When Dad bought one for himself he fitted dual controls, but it was not easy in terms of the existing single control. Thats nearly 20 years ago, and maybe the market has produced a better solution now.
In my view they have aged well and a tidy one still looks contemporary.
You aren't likely to be buying one for speed! But they very much are motor sailers rather than motor boats with sails, and they have a steady sailing performance and good weather handling.
One thing to watch - although they have dual steering, my understanding is they didn't have dual engine controls as standard, which makes manoeuvring from cockpit hard work - the engine control is in the wheelhouse. When Dad bought one for himself he fitted dual controls, but it was not easy in terms of the existing single control. Thats nearly 20 years ago, and maybe the market has produced a better solution now.
In my view they have aged well and a tidy one still looks contemporary.
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
I own an LM27, and the LM28 is significantly different in some ways
The LM27 is a long keeler and as such require skill to reverse. Not unmanageable but can be trying in the marina strong wind. The official SA/Displacement figures are of course misleading as based on the foredeck triangle, but realist figures taking genoa into account bring it to around 13. It is undercanvased with about a 10m mast on an 8.34m hull possibly because of its low draft. The main problem however is the blunt fishing boat /ships lifeboat bowbow. It takes some breeze to get it going but is happy enough in big seas when it does its rubber duck impression.
I love ours for cruising but even on handicaps expect to come last if I ever gentlemanly race. Its not that sort of boat though It takes me to Brittany and I expect to go right up the west coast of Britain this summer
The LM28 was built by different organisation based on LM27 outline design. it has bilge or fine keels so more easily steerable and probably less underwater drag. It may I think have a finer bow too
The LM27 is a long keeler and as such require skill to reverse. Not unmanageable but can be trying in the marina strong wind. The official SA/Displacement figures are of course misleading as based on the foredeck triangle, but realist figures taking genoa into account bring it to around 13. It is undercanvased with about a 10m mast on an 8.34m hull possibly because of its low draft. The main problem however is the blunt fishing boat /ships lifeboat bowbow. It takes some breeze to get it going but is happy enough in big seas when it does its rubber duck impression.
I love ours for cruising but even on handicaps expect to come last if I ever gentlemanly race. Its not that sort of boat though It takes me to Brittany and I expect to go right up the west coast of Britain this summer
The LM28 was built by different organisation based on LM27 outline design. it has bilge or fine keels so more easily steerable and probably less underwater drag. It may I think have a finer bow too
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
Our friends have the Scanyacht 290, and many of the flaws of the LM27 were ironed out. Sealed cockpit hatches, seat for navigator, mini bowsprit to increase sail area etc. Our friends who have long keeler, needed much deeper wallets than us.
Mudisox
Well-known member
Los roll like mad.
LittleSister
Well-known member
I think you are mistaken to think that LM didn't build the LM28. I've seen photos (probably on the LM Owners' site linked below) of them under construction at LM.
Laminar Flow
Well-known member
Hardly surprising considering the much higher SA/D of the Moody versus the LM, never mind the Longer DWL. In higher wind speeds, the Moody will still have the longer DWL, greater beam and stability and, consequently, will still be faster.
Laminar Flow
Well-known member
With a SA/D of 13 (with a genny) the LM is on the cusp of being a sailing boat. All the Fishers, even the improved ones, have less, as do the all Watsons (much less in fact).
SA/D of 13 or less is a motorsailer, 8 or less is a motorboat (Watson 35 is 8.6, the 32 is 9.4, depending on how you want to interpret SA.)
SA/D of 13 or less is a motorsailer, 8 or less is a motorboat (Watson 35 is 8.6, the 32 is 9.4, depending on how you want to interpret SA.)
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
part of the charm
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
Nominal SA/displacement of LM27 ios same as Westerly Pentland. Our Pentland would do 6kt easily in good winds and maybe 6.5 in thevrare goodwind/flat sea situation. Running down an F6 in big rollers our LM27 failed to touch 6kt and stayed about 5.6 which is max what it does under power. The bluff bow limits speed
billyfish
Active member
I have a Degero 28. Similar to a LM 27. Moving from a 28' falmouth work boat. I didn't buy it to sail faster or manoeuvre better, but to be more comfortable and she is, hot water,heaters,fridge, dual steering, windscreen wipers ?, if I want to go fast I do what it says ,motor sail. Got across lyme bay so quickly last summer I had to wait for the tide to get round Portland. I do miss sailing passed Moody's on a beam reach but not the cold and wet as I get older. Oh and can do it all from the cockpit keeping her indoors happy. Long keel boats have always been difficult in tight spaces but after a 9 ton gaff Cutter it's a doddle.
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
All except the earliest LM27s have wheel house doors. They do not have a bridge deck unlike their semi clone Scanyacht290, but can readily be fitted with a dam inside the doors. Ok a large plank maybe 150mm high bolted to bottom of door frame.
LM28 and Scanyacht290s are rated as Ocean capable. LM27 is not so rated as not suited to green seas and cockpits full of water, though can be improved.
Laminar Flow
Well-known member
I wonder what the comparative WL entry angles are for the Pentland and the LM? I kinda doubt they are that far apart. The Pentland does have a longer effective WL. A blunt nose will o course slow you down to weather. But, downwind? As far as blunt bows go, it does not get any blunter than the traditional Dutch models and they have been known to kick the stuffing out of much more pointy modern designs.
