Living on a boat in Portugal

[Tranona]

Agree - rather than all of this guessing, cut to the chase.

main | RU Sailing

Rob, the principle, is a RYA Ocean Yachtmaster Instructor/Examiner. They operate out of Lagos. I have known Rob for 15 years and am very aware how good he is.

If contacted, he will be able to give chapter and verse on the RYA ICC in Portugal.

It is NOT the "RYA" ICC. It is issued by the RYA on behalf of the UK government under UN Resolution 40. It is the same as any other ICC issued by other states. It is not a "qualification", even though it can be issued to holders of qualifications like those of the RYA, but a certificate of competence that shows holders meet the requirements detailed in Resolution 40.

 

[nortada]

Circulation tax should be paid when the boat has been there for six consecutive months in a year, the year starting January 1st. To avoid it, those who are able to, head (or appear to) out of Portugal to Spain, although many Algarve marina dwellers just anchor in Ria Formosa or Guadiana for a week at the beginning of June. The tax should be paid at Finances, not Capitania. If circulation tax not paid, light dues payment now only lasts six months (used to be 12 months) so payable twice per year.

I've never been asked to pay circulation tax but I'm mooring based so not subject to walk around marina inspections. We've got away with paying light dues just once each year so far and the woman at Capitania has never asked for back payment.

Fairly certain that circulation tax is not retrospective.

 

[nortada]

It is NOT the "RYA" ICC. It is issued by the RYA on behalf of the UK government under UN Resolution 40. It is the same as any other ICC issued by other states. It is not a "qualification", even though it can be issued to holders of qualifications like those of the RYA, but a certificate of competence that shows holders meet the requirements detailed in Resolution 40.

Bit pickie.?

Important message is, seek the information you need from those in the know rather than opinions on a forum - including mine.?

Possibly should add that during my 20 years sailing In Iberian Waters, I was never required to produce my ICC.

But there is always tomorrow.

 

[billskip]

Bit pickie.?

Important message is, seek the information you need from those in the know rather than opinions on a forum - including mine.?

Possibly should add that during my 20 years sailing In Iberian Waters, I was never required to produce my ICC.

But there is always tomorrow.

Yes ,but your Rob is not the only ocean yachtmaster instructor, there are others and some, it may surprise you, post here.

 

[nortada]

Yes ,but your Rob is not the only ocean yachtmaster instructor, there are others and some, it may surprise you, post here.

So true ? and your point is

Not my Rob but a guy who is in situ in Portugal and under the auspices of the RYA has conducted and examined the whole spectrum of their courses for a number of years so probably is a good source of reliable information.

 

[Tranona]

Bit pickie.?

Important message is, seek the information you need from those in the know rather than opinions on a forum - including mine.?

Possibly should add that during my 20 years sailing In Iberian Waters, I was never required to produce my ICC.

But there is always tomorrow.

Not pickie at all. The ICC is what it is - whoever issues it. Those "in the know" know nothing that is not publicly available about its status. If you read the RYA guidance on the subject you will know that its acceptance or otherwise is variable simply because not all states have signed up and on the other hand some of those non signatories require it for certain activities within their jurisdiction. Such is the nature of things when you ty to get agreement among nations on subjects where there is not a common view. At least it had a head start being based on the CEVNI required competences - even if those are relatively limited in relation to coastal and offshore cruising on yachts.

 

[nortada]

Not pickie at all. The ICC is what it is - whoever issues it. Those "in the know" know nothing that is not publicly available about its status. If you read the RYA guidance on the subject you will know that its acceptance or otherwise is variable simply because not all states have signed up and on the other hand some of those non signatories require it for certain activities within their jurisdiction. Such is the nature of things when you ty to get agreement among nations on subjects where there is not a common view. At least it had a head start being based on the CEVNI required competences - even if those are relatively limited in relation to coastal and offshore cruising on yachts.

Don’t think you and I are in the same conversation.

I am trying to offer thoughts to someone who is seeking reliable advice but you appear to be explaining the semantics of the ICC.

So be it.?

 

[Tranona]

Don’t think you and I are in the same conversation.

I am trying to offer thoughts to someone who is seeking reliable advice but you appear to be explaining the semantics of the ICC.

So be it.?

So, what "reliable" advice are you offering that is any different from the facts - and they are not semantics. The ICC is what it is and its acceptance or otherwise is variable.

I can see nothing in what you have written that adds to this. Your bit about the local RYA school is irrelevant. The courses they offer to RYA certificates is unconnected to the ICC and they can assess for the ICC only in line with the RYA remit from the UK government and the UN. So fail to see what you are contributing that is different/better/more appropriate.

 

[nortada]

So, what "reliable" advice are you offering that is any different from the facts - and they are not semantics. The ICC is what it is and its acceptance or otherwise is variable.

I can see nothing in what you have written that adds to this. Your bit about the local RYA school is irrelevant. The courses they offer to RYA certificates is unconnected to the ICC and they can assess for the ICC only in line with the RYA remit from the UK government and the UN. So fail to see what you are contributing that is different/better/more appropriate.

As said before, 2 conversations and two barely related responses so why are you so set on picking an argument?

For the record, I am not offering any ‘reliable’ advice, beyond seek out the thoughts of those who know.

I am well versed on the various facets of the ICC and RYA qualifications but others may appreciate your clarifications.

I agree with #16, as David, the OP, is planning to boat in Portugal and is seeking advice, it would seem reasonable to ask a resident RYA instructor/examiner for their thoughts, who, in addition to the ICC, may be able to advise on other, local qualification, that may meet the Portuguese requirements to operate a vessel in their waters.

They may also offer advice on other aspects of boating in Portugal; such as flag registration, boat inspections, light dues, safety equipment required, circulation tax and much more.

Many British boat owners in Portugal are of the opinion that where possible, it is easier to stay out of the Portuguese system as much as possible and retain the boat on the SSR.

Possibly time to move on and get back to the thread?

 

[nortada]

Hey guys. Quick question. We are in the process of buying a boat (Sunseeker 38ft) and are trying to figure out what licensing we need for Portugal?

The intention is to mainly live on the boat in the marina and very occasional sailing. Any help here would be much appreciated!

Question for the OP, David, do you have Portuguese residency or will you be subject to a maximum of 90 days in 180 in the EU.

Before 31/12/20, it was easy to visit the local camara and get temporary 5 residency, using your boat and marina berth as a place of residence.

Now that SEF have taken over issuing residency, I am not sure this is still the case.

 

[[3889]]

Question for the OP, David, do you have Portuguese residency or will you be subject to a maximum of 90 days in 180 in the EU.

Before 31/12/20, it was easy to visit the local camara and get temporary 5 residency, using your boat and marina berth as a place of residence.

Now that SEF have taken over issuing residency, I am not sure this is still the case.

He's said he's Irish - twice.

 

[nortada]

He's said he's Irish - twice.

Sorry, missed that so shouldn’t affect David but on the wider stage it could prevent Brit Liveaboards permanently in Portugal, with temporary (5 year) residency from converting to permanent (10 year) residency or getting a biometric residency permit (if they ever turn up).

This was an issue at was always back of our minds so we started investigating strategies to jump through this latest hoop. Then Sue had her accident ?? and and our whole world changed. ??

 

[Graham376]

I really can't understand this argument. The OP wants to know what qualifications he needs to skipper his proposed boat in Portugal and I and Nortada suggested he contacts someone on the ground who actually knows what the local requirements are and therefore able to advise him. As his website says, he is able to put folks in touch with other organisations who run courses he doesn't.

Why are people still banging on about the ICC for a country which hasn't signed up to Article 40 so doesn't demand it. In 17 years based there, I've never been asked for qualifications and don't know anyone else on a foreign flagged boat who has.

 

[greeny]

I really can't understand this argument. The OP wants to know what qualifications he needs to skipper his proposed boat in Portugal and I and Nortada suggested he contacts someone on the ground who actually knows what the local requirements are and therefore able to advise him. As his website says, he is able to put folks in touch with other organisations who run courses he doesn't.

Why are people still banging on about the ICC for a country which hasn't signed up to Article 40 so doesn't demand it. In 17 years based there, I've never been asked for qualifications and don't know anyone else on a foreign flagged boat who has.

Because they just want to bump their gums.
They need to leave it to the people who are local and know the local ropes.
It's up to the OP who he wishes to listen to.
The question was about Portugal and its requirements. Not the rest of the world.

 

[billskip]

Because they just want to bump their gums.
They need to leave it to the people who are local and know the local ropes.
It's up to the OP who he wishes to listen to.
The question was about Portugal and its requirements. Not the rest of the world.

Read your own post number two.....you are the one that mentions ICC and RYA

 

[greeny]

Read your own post number two.....you are the one that mentions ICC and RYA

I answered the question - you just over complicate things and create argument. It's up to the OP who he listens to.

 

[billskip]

I answered the question - you just over complicate things and create argument. It's up to the OP who he listens to.

My apologies if things are too complicated for you to understand.

 

[Obi]

+1 for Portugal. Wine for less than a euro when I was last there. Good luck.

 

[Beneteau381]

+1 for Portugal. Wine for less than a euro when I was last there. Good luck.

They have put the price of a bottle of beer, glass of wine (big) or a coffee up to €1.20 ! at Culatra !

 

[Obi]

They have put the price of a bottle of beer, glass of wine (big) or a coffee up to €1.20 ! at Culatra !

Not too shabby.

It is nearly £6 a pint in all of my local pubs.