Liveaboard wear and tear

solent clown

solent clown

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Our long term goal is to live aboard a yacht, as and when we have the experience and cash to get the one we want. We have been experimenting for the last 18 months with our own low impact living "pod" at the bottom of our garden. (inside a large steel shed!) We have pared down the amount of "stuff" we have, energy requirements, and ways of living comfortably in a small space. This is not equivalent to living onboard, but we have gained some useful insights.
We have an employee who bought a brand new luxury caravan a few years ago to live on on his land while he waited for planning. After about 5 years it is falling to bits, the fabric of the shell is fine, but fittings designed for occasional use have broken, even things like oven doors, light fittings, cupboard doors etc.
I wonder if it is the same living aboard a modern ish yacht. They all like lovely inside at the boat show, in an AWB kind of way, but I wonder about the longevity of the fittings.
When we take the plunge I would like to think about the availability of interior fittings, or maybe just buy a hull and fit it out to our own spec.
 
A liveaboard boat is verb.

You don't 'have' a liveaboard - it's something you do . :)

Wander about the anchorages and you'll find the long termers tend to prefer older tougher designs, and they tend to get simpler as the years go by. Course they're older cause they were baught decades ago as well, but to generalise long term cruisers wouldn't go for a modern plastic fantastic if buying again.

Cue the bickering ;)
 
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We have been on board for up to 6 weeks at a time but haven't actually lived about yet. However we bought a boat which had been chartered out for 8 years (more living aboard every year than most boats get in a couple of decades) then even worse used as flotilla lead boat and the best place to take spare parts from. It was a bargain and needed to be.

But what we found was that furnishings and hull and deck stuff was mostly fine and has been fine in the 7 years since. But I've replaced pretty much every light fitting, almost all parts for the two heads at least once and the nav and steam light fittings plus of course sail covers sails and so on. I could post my "Done" and "To do" task list but it would take up more space than the forum has.

But as I mostly do stuff when on board and at nice harbours and anchorages and occasionally under way if dead calm then I find the maintenance a pleasure but a bit of a cost as most production yacht gear is designed for replacement not repair.
 
I think that the items most likely to suffer are the soft furnishings. Most of the other items either have an indefinite life or would need regular servicing or renewal. We have never lived aboard but spend three months continuously each summer and our saloon furnishings are beginning to look a bit tired and the foam less supportive.
 
RupertW said:
We have been on board for up to 6 weeks at a time but haven't actually lived about yet. However we bought a boat which had been chartered out for 8 years (more living aboard every year than most boats get in a couple of decades) then even worse used as flotilla lead boat and the best place to take spare parts from. It was a bargain and needed to be.

But what we found was that furnishings and hull and deck stuff was mostly fine and has been fine in the 7 years since. But I've replaced pretty much every light fitting, almost all parts for the two heads at least once and the nav and steam light fittings plus of course sail covers sails and so on. I could post my "Done" and "To do" task list but it would take up more space than the forum has.

But as I mostly do stuff when on board and at nice harbours and anchorages and occasionally under way if dead calm then I find the maintenance a pleasure but a bit of a cost as most production yacht gear is designed for replacement not repair.
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Interesting, and mentioning the heads reminds me of a mishap this week when we sailed the trident back from portsmouth. The old owner had fitted brand new heads he told us proudly. Karen used them on the way back, but left it to me to flush. First time we caught the wind and the boat heeled over the FULL toilet fell over. turns out he had not bolted it down...
 
johnalison said:
I think that the items most likely to suffer are the soft furnishings. Most of the other items either have an indefinite life or would need regular servicing or renewal. We have never lived aboard but spend three months continuously each summer and our saloon furnishings are beginning to look a bit tired and the foam less supportive.
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soft furnishings at least hold less fear than having to hack away at units to fix plumbing etc. I am leaning towards buying a bare hull and fitting it out I think, at least I will know what is what.
 
solent clown said:
soft furnishings at least hold less fear than having to hack away at units to fix plumbing etc. I am leaning towards buying a bare hull and fitting it out I think, at least I will know what is what.
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I don't think you will find that easy. AFAIK all the self-complete manufacturers have gone out of business - probably from lack of demand.

You may have to buy an old boat and strip out its interior.
 
It depends on so many factors. Arguably older boats tend to be more substantially built which is one of the reasons why they are popular (together of course with the lower price!). However the bits that cause the most problems tend to be electrics, cooking and water systems which tend not to be as durable. upholstery can get a hammering, but there are ways of minimising wear, plus of course using more durable materials in the first place. If you do a lot of sailing then deck gear and sails wear out.

As to whether AWBs are "better", much depends on the particular model and how you treat it. From personal experience, my 2001 bav 37 stood up extremely well to 7 years of chartering and a further 2 years of part time living aboard. Nothing of significance failed, although regular work and replacements needed on the types of domestic gear explained above. we had the saloon seating recovered in a sunbrella material which I expect will still be on the boat in 20 years time (it has now gone back to the Med as a part time liveaboard).

It is not realistic to fit out a new hull yourself, partly because nobody sells hulls anymore and partly because it is not economically viable. However if you buy a 1970/80s 40 footer you will probably need to do a total refit which is much the same thing anyway. Expect to spend at least 25% of the purchase price on refit of even a "good" boat or even the same amount again for a rundown one to get it up to scratch.

There is no right answer to the question as people do both - buy a recent AWB in good condition and keep it that way or buy a cheaper older boat and spend the money on a refit. You need to set your budget and then assess which of these approaches will get you what you want within the budget. Not forgetting, of course the "heart" factor as well as the head.

Personally I would go the modern route as my days of fixing boats on a large scale are past and I have seen too many failed dreams when the enormity of putting right 30 odd years of mistreatment and bodging becomes clear!
 
davidej said:
I don't think you will find that easy. AFAIK all the self-complete manufacturers have gone out of business - probably from lack of demand.

You may have to buy an old boat and strip out its interior.
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yes, I didnt make myself clear there, I did mean buying an old boat and starting again. I have no intention of ever buying new. I am in the wrong income bracket for that :encouragement:
 
Tranona,
I am in the "fortunate" position of having every tool in the world, a good pair of hands and somewhere to do the work so I have a better chance than most at finishing it. The long bitter slog of full build specialist vehicles has taught me the grit to stay with a project too! You are right about doing the maths, time is money, and that is where I could add value/spend less to achieve the same goal. I like the idea of refitting for the one good reason of knowing how it all goes together.
 
solent clown said:
Tranona,
I am in the "fortunate" position of having every tool in the world, a good pair of hands and somewhere to do the work so I have a better chance than most at finishing it. The long bitter slog of full build specialist vehicles has taught me the grit to stay with a project too! You are right about doing the maths, time is money, and that is where I could add value/spend less to achieve the same goal. I like the idea of refitting for the one good reason of knowing how it all goes together.
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I don't know how much work you have done on boats, but it is a serious PITA. Yes, do it if you have a heated shed at the end of your garden, and your project boat does not yet have the deck on. Bear in mind that a lot of boats are built like caravans...much of the inside is completed before the deck goes on, simply because once it's on you are suddenly very limited in the size of things that will physically fit through hatches.

As soon as you get to the point that you are essentially trying to live in a tiny workshop among your tools and dust, either afloat or running up and down ladders constantly, it will frankly seem like a stunningly crap idea unless you are some kind of serious masochist.

Just to give you an idea, I redid all the headlining in the saloon of my Sabre 27. I was just gobsmacked at the £3500-£4000 quotes I'd had for a pro job. What a rip off, I'll do that myself thanks. After an entire week of doing it, probably miles running up and down pontoons grabbing tools from the car, countless trips out in the car just to buy another packet of screws or stanley blades, £400 for proper materials (lining/wood/glue/trim pieces etc), as well as hours a day wearing an organic vapours mask, plus the boat looking like the fallout from a nuclear winter, I was falling asleep in my sleeping bag full of dust murmuring "take my money...please take my money".

Oh, and what fun it was trying to get headlining panels through the main hatch...
 
There is a vast difference between a caravan and a cruising yacht - if you don't maintain the yacht you are putting your lives at risk. We lived on and cruised for 10 years a Westerly Conway, including 5 years in the Caribbean. The wear and tear from full time cruising requiring repairs and replacement equipment, especially in extremely salty and high UV conditions, was much more than anticipated. Whatever you budget for, you will triple or quadruple it.
 
solent clown said:
yes, I didnt make myself clear there, I did mean buying an old boat and starting again. I have no intention of ever buying new. I am in the wrong income bracket for that :encouragement:
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I have done that several times both in the UK and here in South Africa.

The last boat my steel boat DistantShaws, I picked up an abandoned project boat mine had had at least 3 previous owners before me and all had run out of interest or money.

You need both time and money to complete from an abandoned project. The ratio between time and money is very related.

If you have money you can buy other peoples time, If you have time you may not have the money to buy essential materials and time will drag on too long.

If like me you have a company that would allow you time yet still allow you to earn money that be best.

Also consider as you get older your need to comforts increase.

When I was younger if lived in a 19 foot cabin cruiser in Northampton for 6 months until winter came. I could not do that now too old need something a lot bigger.

Also consider that as the length increases so does the beam but the cost goes up by a factor of 8.

I have a sign on my boat " boats cone in 3 dimensions length, width and debt.
 
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Having owned 4 caravans over the years, and one boat I can tell you that my boat has interior fittings, some of which, like the plastic door catches are also caravan fittings which wear out and need replacing, but most are of a better standard and will last well. Choose your boat carefully. My own boat dates from 1998 and is better built than some later ones. Caravans have to be built so as to minimise weight, yachts don't have that problem.
 
Have a look around some sailing school yachts or other heavily chartered boats.
A lot of stuff loses its gloss after a few years.

The big problem with working on a boat you are actually living on, is that the boat can never be empty enough to make space to work. And you end up needing to sleep in the mess and smell you've made. You need storage and somewhere else to sleep for jobs like varnishing, and if you put those jobs off for too long, the boat is going to get irredeemably tatty.
Add to that, most people's boats are still only semi-finished when they start living on them.
 
solent clown said:
Interesting, and mentioning the heads reminds me of a mishap this week when we sailed the trident back from portsmouth. The old owner had fitted brand new heads he told us proudly. Karen used them on the way back, but left it to me to flush. First time we caught the wind and the boat heeled over the FULL toilet fell over. turns out he had not bolted it down...
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I'd begin to worry about all sorts of things now.
 
UV damage, need for antifoul etc is the same whether you live onboard or the boat just sits in a marina. Time spent aboard only affects upholstery, fridge life, heating life, cupboard handles and hinges and the like.

Against the increased wear on the interior, offset the lack of wear/maintenance/replacement for three piece, carpets, curtain and upholstery etc in a house. Plus, factor in house maintenance, roof repairs, painting and decorating etc. Finally, throw in the ridiculous cost of living on a boat, electric, gas etc costs peanuts.

Oh, what price the lifestyle ?
 
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