Liveaboard wear and tear

[duncan99210]

We bought a nine year old Bavaria, did some modifications for liveaboard use (bigger battery bank, holding tank etc) and then lived on board full time for six years. We've still got the boat nine years after we bought her. In that time we've replaced the upholstery in the saloon, fitted a new cooker, annual heads rebuilds, varnished some interior woodwork, replaced the odd broken cupboard door catch, replaced all the interior lights and so on and so on. That's the interior: basincally keeping it looking good and functional, about what I'd expect. But things aren't falling to pieces as I saw in my parents caravan, where the base fabric of the van was shot after about eight years moderate use.
The boaty side is as you might expect: engine maintenance, new sails, running rigging, through hull fittings, gel coat repairs, all somewhat more than you might expect from normal use.
When we were looking for a boat, we looked at a lot of tired older British boats. They were all over priced to our point of view and all needed a good deal of time and money spending on them. Bear in mind that I did all of the work on our boat myself, so I'm not unable to do the work, rather the parts required plus the time it would have required made the boats unsuitable for us.
From a money point of view, revamping an older boat may never make sense in comparison to finding a newer boat in good condition at the right price. However, it's not all about money, is it? It's about the boat that fits you and that's not something that any of us can decide for you. Have fun solving the equations....

 

[William_H]

It seems to me that Solent Clown's worries are very much misdirected. Caravans and boats in a similar way will always need maintenance of interior fittings etc not unlike a house. Much depends on just how fussy you are about condition.
Far more important considerations I would think for live aboard are size of boat and location of mooring.
But even more important than those are just whether you still think it a good idea after a winter on board.
Not withstanding your experiments in the back shed just buy a boat and try staying on it for short periods while not burning your bridges ie keep your house. You can then with experience slowly convert to full time live aboard. If that is what you want. Maintenance on boats is always with us. just get used to it and try to enjoy. olewill

 

[Yngmar]

It's mostly the interior that suffers. Dings and scratches in varnish, although I cringe every time, are unavoidable, especially if your boat also is your workshop, as will be the case for most liveaboards. Handholds experience wear and you'll be visibly wearing down the cockpit floor, seat areas and the deck where you step on/off the boat.

Oh, and of course the toilet will be an endless source of joy.

On the other hand, being always on the boat is also good for it. If you're the least bit aware of your boat, it will never sit there with a halyard slapping around or a poorly furled sail risking destruction in a gale, fenders popped out or water trickling down a improperly latched porthole for weeks. And you'll know your boat well, so if something starts squeaking, you can fix the issue before it becomes a problem.

So if you keep on top of the maintenance, don't mind the occasional varnish job and budget for eventually replacing the cushions, you'll be fine and the boat will be in far better shape than most of those sitting in marinas being used only for a few weekends a year.

 

[solent clown]

It seems to me that Solent Clown's worries are very much misdirected. Caravans and boats in a similar way will always need maintenance of interior fittings etc not unlike a house. Much depends on just how fussy you are about condition.
Far more important considerations I would think for live aboard are size of boat and location of mooring.
But even more important than those are just whether you still think it a good idea after a winter on board.
Not withstanding your experiments in the back shed just buy a boat and try staying on it for short periods while not burning your bridges ie keep your house. You can then with experience slowly convert to full time live aboard. If that is what you want. Maintenance on boats is always with us. just get used to it and try to enjoy. olewill

that is exactly what we are doing chap :encouragement: We led an itinerant life for a good amount of years and staying in one place seems pointless now the kids are just about grown and gone. Have last but one of 5 joining the navy this year and last joining the army next year or year after.
By the way, a boat in the water is way easier to heat than the shed. That much we know. :encouragement:

 

[solent clown]

I don't know how much work you have done on boats, but it is a serious PITA. Yes, do it if you have a heated shed at the end of your garden, and your project boat does not yet have the deck on. Bear in mind that a lot of boats are built like caravans...much of the inside is completed before the deck goes on, simply because once it's on you are suddenly very limited in the size of things that will physically fit through hatches.

As soon as you get to the point that you are essentially trying to live in a tiny workshop among your tools and dust, either afloat or running up and down ladders constantly, it will frankly seem like a stunningly crap idea unless you are some kind of serious masochist.

Just to give you an idea, I redid all the headlining in the saloon of my Sabre 27. I was just gobsmacked at the £3500-£4000 quotes I'd had for a pro job. What a rip off, I'll do that myself thanks. After an entire week of doing it, probably miles running up and down pontoons grabbing tools from the car, countless trips out in the car just to buy another packet of screws or stanley blades, £400 for proper materials (lining/wood/glue/trim pieces etc), as well as hours a day wearing an organic vapours mask, plus the boat looking like the fallout from a nuclear winter, I was falling asleep in my sleeping bag full of dust murmuring "take my money...please take my money".

Oh, and what fun it was trying to get headlining panels through the main hatch...

I have several acres of land, two barns and a workshop. We wouldnt be living on anything until it is mostly finished. I take your point on the awkwardness of working inside a hull.

 

[solent clown]

There is a vast difference between a caravan and a cruising yacht - if you don't maintain the yacht you are putting your lives at risk. We lived on and cruised for 10 years a Westerly Conway, including 5 years in the Caribbean. The wear and tear from full time cruising requiring repairs and replacement equipment, especially in extremely salty and high UV conditions, was much more than anticipated. Whatever you budget for, you will triple or quadruple it.

that is pretty much the advice we give our customers with expedition vehicle builds, rings true :encouragement:

 

[solent clown]

UV damage, need for antifoul etc is the same whether you live onboard or the boat just sits in a marina. Time spent aboard only affects upholstery, fridge life, heating life, cupboard handles and hinges and the like.

Against the increased wear on the interior, offset the lack of wear/maintenance/replacement for three piece, carpets, curtain and upholstery etc in a house. Plus, factor in house maintenance, roof repairs, painting and decorating etc. Finally, throw in the ridiculous cost of living on a boat, electric, gas etc costs peanuts.

Oh, what price the lifestyle ?

yes Paul, it is an interesting idea. once rebuilt living costs are lower, as all the expenses of having a boat would be there living on it or not. And the lack of bricks and mortar bills will save a lot. My post is about futureproofing the interior "house" fitments and facilities.

 

[solent clown]

I'd begin to worry about all sorts of things now.

I have been going through things as best as the weather has allowed! Yes paranoia has set in, but so far all good, only problem was a seized gas tap on the cooker that he never used. Fixed now. Running rigging is a bit green in places, so probably going to have a really good look, and replace a few bits

 

[GrahamM376]

Have been trying to think how much difference there has been maintenance wise between living aboard for 8-9 months p.a for the last 10 years, compared to weekend and long holiday use previously. Being in the sun, UV damage to stitching on sprayhood, bimini etc more of a problem and dinghy and outboard get a lot more use/wear but that's about it.

The rest is much the same as home use - apart for a broken morse cable, we've had no engine problems since new engine a few years ago. Most breakages have been electrics - inverter, battery charger, a couple of instruments. Cooker grill needed replacing. We've had no failures of winches, windlass, mast fittings, steering gear etc. Hatches could do with reglazing due to UV crazing.

The galley area gets the most hammer and could do with a coat of varnish and some headlinings and upholstery getting time expired but the boat's 30 years old so that's to be expected.

 

[maby]

The furnishings of a boat are not designed for the same levels of usage as those in a house and they will wear out relatively quickly for liveaboard use. The problem tends to be that they are a lot harder to replace than they are in your house - consider the average galley vs. the average house kitchen. In your house, the kitchen units are all relatively free standing - they are sitting on the floor and screwed to the walls. They are generally pretty much rectangular units - no very complex carpentry required. If you have the kitchen in your house replaced, a lot of the units effectively come ready built - the fitter selects combinations that fill the available space.

None of that applies in a boat - all the units are built to fit the curves of the hull. Space it usually very limited and the replacement units have to be built from scratch by a skilled carpenter - it's a significantly more expensive task, at least relative to the size of the units being installed.

 

[Daydream believer]

In my opinion you do not want to even think about living on a boat until it is absolutely, & i mean absolutely, finished. Forget having it in the water. It needs to be in a warm building with scaffold round it so you can work on the decks, do jobs at scaffold level without going to ground level all the time. You need to be able to spread tools everywhere & leave them out all night. You need stacks of materials to hand rather than wait for bits of wood loads of screws, fastenings, GRP gear etc to do various jobs. You need to have a plan, work constantly 8 hours a day. You need some benches set up with joinery machines. GRP layup bench etc. Vices cramps all available.
It is no good poncing about with mickey mouse DIY stuff. If you are doing a major refit you need to be tooled up to do the job. If you buy any tooling you can flog it when finished.
I had a joinery works so all the machinery to build a wooden boat from the hull up (having stripped everything out inc the decks) was to hand, but it still took quite a while. I am not sure that car building skills are the right ones for boat building, but at least you should have the skills to plan things & do the electrics etc competently. I made the mast & boom etc & welded up the metal parts & i am sure you can do that. Remember that things have to built light.
It is a boat not a tank & the skill is getting a good match of elegance, lightness & strength whilst still having a longevity.
Rigging & furniture had to be bought in early to save time.
As for rigging it is surprising how much better a professional rigger will lay out the running rigging than an amateur will do it. I did my own Stella ( i had one for 10 years previously). Everything was brand new, it is no good using knackered old gear with loads of friction. But when I saw what Rig Magic did to a Stella in the Felixtowe area I was somewhat embarrassed. Everything was beautifully placed & free running & so easy to operate it made using it a pleasure.

 

[solent clown]

In my opinion you do not want to even think about living on a boat until it is absolutely, & i mean absolutely, finished. Forget having it in the water. It needs to be in a warm building with scaffold round it so you can work on the decks, do jobs at scaffold level without going to ground level all the time. You need to be able to spread tools everywhere & leave them out all night. You need stacks of materials to hand rather than wait for bits of wood loads of screws, fastenings, GRP gear etc to do various jobs. You need to have a plan, work constantly 8 hours a day. You need some benches set up with joinery machines. GRP layup bench etc. Vices cramps all available.
It is no good poncing about with mickey mouse DIY stuff. If you are doing a major refit you need to be tooled up to do the job. If you buy any tooling you can flog it when finished.
I had a joinery works so all the machinery to build a wooden boat from the hull up (having stripped everything out inc the decks) was to hand, but it still took quite a while. I am not sure that car building skills are the right ones for boat building, but at least you should have the skills to plan things & do the electrics etc competently. I made the mast & boom etc & welded up the metal parts & i am sure you can do that. Remember that things have to built light.
It is a boat not a tank & the skill is getting a good match of elegance, lightness & strength whilst still having a longevity.
Rigging & furniture had to be bought in early to save time.
As for rigging it is surprising how much better a professional rigger will lay out the running rigging than an amateur will do it. I did my own Stella ( i had one for 10 years previously). Everything was brand new, it is no good using knackered old gear with loads of friction. But when I saw what Rig Magic did to a Stella in the Felixtowe area I was somewhat embarrassed. Everything was beautifully placed & free running & so easy to operate it made using it a pleasure.

I am next door to a joinery business. I have most if not all of the kit they have apart from big spindle moulders and thicknessers, but I can use theirs.
I have a huge barn to work from.
I have more than a little woodwork skill myself, it is the other string to my bow, we used to do industrial modelling, mould plug making, and bespoke furniture.
GRP is part of the day job.
We will not be getting in to making masts etc. Our plan is to buy a boat that we can customise and future proof the interior of for ease of use and replacement. We will probably be using as much aluminium, and aluminium composite sheets, and plastic as wood, I am not a fan of wooden carcasses. I love wood for it's "warmth" but it will be only used where there is no alternative or it is decorative.
I am not usre what your reference to it being a boatg not a tank is supposed to mean, tanks are very well appoi nted inside these days, some even have toilets

 

[Gerry]

We have been living aboard for the past twenty years-and intend to continue as long as we can!
Our boat was built in 1991 and the previous owner had done an excellent job in sorting all the sailing issues and we have greatly appreciated over time the fact that she was so well sorted in that area. We have sailed long distances for many years and have learnd to do all maintenance ourselves-from servicing the engine to making new upholstery. You need to realise that two people living constantly in such a small space-in our case a 40 foot mono hull-will be hard on the interior. However it is certainly not insurmountable. Whenever we need to change/repair something we aim to improve and upgrade. This has been a really sucessful policy. The lightweight interior upholstery that you are likely to find can be swiftly improved with higher quality fabrics and foams.
We have an older style boat built for long distance cruising and her substantial build has stood us in good stead over the years. I would not be so confident at the durability of a lot of the current mass produced vessels on the market.
My one piece of advice would be to keep things simple. The fewer systems the better. Go for lower power consumption in all areas and select products that you can service and repair yourself.

 

[Daydream believer]

I am next door to a joinery business. I have most if not all of the kit they have apart from big spindle moulders and thicknessers, but I can use theirs.
I have a huge barn to work from.
I have more than a little woodwork skill myself, it is the other string to my bow, we used to do industrial modelling, mould plug making, and bespoke furniture.
GRP is part of the day job.
We will not be getting in to making masts etc. Our plan is to buy a boat that we can customise and future proof the interior of for ease of use and replacement. We will probably be using as much aluminium, and aluminium composite sheets, and plastic as wood, I am not a fan of wooden carcasses. I love wood for it's "warmth" but it will be only used where there is no alternative or it is decorative.
I am not usre what your reference to it being a boatg not a tank is supposed to mean, tanks are very well appoi nted inside these days, some even have toilets

Having re read my post the phrase " am not sure that car building skills are the right ones for boat building," was not meant to be disrespectful so i hope it was not taken as such - Sorry !!

 

[solent clown]

We have been living aboard for the past twenty years-and intend to continue as long as we can!
Our boat was built in 1991 and the previous owner had done an excellent job in sorting all the sailing issues and we have greatly appreciated over time the fact that she was so well sorted in that area. We have sailed long distances for many years and have learnd to do all maintenance ourselves-from servicing the engine to making new upholstery. You need to realise that two people living constantly in such a small space-in our case a 40 foot mono hull-will be hard on the interior. However it is certainly not insurmountable. Whenever we need to change/repair something we aim to improve and upgrade. This has been a really sucessful policy. The lightweight interior upholstery that you are likely to find can be swiftly improved with higher quality fabrics and foams.
We have an older style boat built for long distance cruising and her substantial build has stood us in good stead over the years. I would not be so confident at the durability of a lot of the current mass produced vessels on the market.
My one piece of advice would be to keep things simple. The fewer systems the better. Go for lower power consumption in all areas and select products that you can service and repair yourself.

thanks for that, it makes very good sense. The biggest issue for us is going to be finding the right boat, something we will not rush in to. Like you we will be going for an older boat, this new stuff isnt for us stylistically or for practical reasons.
We prefer to keep things simple, so your advice rings true for us also.