which moisture meter?

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pcatterall

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I did have an expensive Sovereign meter which 'someone borrowed'. I'm about to buy a replacement.
Will cheaper meters measure things like the balsa core as we are looking for another yacht and it would be great to get a first impression about any damp issues there.
Any recommendations?
 
You can certainly go high end, but I've been happy with a Klein Tools meter or $50. Klein is reputable and makes a lot of meters. I did test it against shop laid up squares of glass/balsa sandwich, with lab measured moisture (dry in oven and then equilibrate with known mass of water, they re-weigh) and got reliable numbers, though I forget which setting worked best.

You will always need to calibrate based on the layup and actual core used (not known) by having a dried sample in your hand, so the best you can do is calibrate against something dry and probably similar, check against dry areas of the deck (high, away from fittings, good sounding), and then consider all readings to be relative. Variations in layup and things bonded to the interior will always inject considerable uncertainty.

It's as much careful examinations of the structure as an expensive instrument. I was a licensed inspector of big oil and gas tanks for years, I had all sorts of expensive high-tech stuff in my bag, and the most important tools were always the mark I eyeball and expereince.
 
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Tramex Skipper is a good unit .... sorry to say this - far superior to the old Sovereign ....
The Sovereigns achilles heel was its limited depth detection. The Tramex though is capable of detecting 'wet' wood / ply bulkhead joints to hull.

But it depends what you want to measure ...

Having run Yacht Surveying in UK before moving to Baltics ... I used two meters .... Protimeter Pro and the Tramex Skipper. Why the two ?

Let's say you are checking out a cored deck .. you feel its a bit spongy ... the Tramex will likely slam to max on testing .. regardless of scale you choose. But the Protimeter will give you a reading.
If you are checking an underhull for moisture .... then after getting a reference average of various points above waterline - you start testing below waterline ... with many older boats - the Tramex can be too sensitive - so again the Protimeter is used initially ..

As drying out proceeds the Tramex will then come into play.

The Protimeter also has the advantage of being able to be used on other constructions such as Ferro .... even wood boats ... can even be used as a 'stud / metal' detector in walls ! due to its various modes.

Is the Protimeter Pro still available ... probably not - but I'm sure there must be equivalent .... I'm fairly sure that Tramex is still available ... probably a much updated version compared to mine.

I still have both in full working order ....
 
pcatterall said:
I did have an expensive Sovereign meter which 'someone borrowed'. I'm about to buy a replacement.
Will cheaper meters measure things like the balsa core as we are looking for another yacht and it would be great to get a first impression about any damp issues there.
Any recommendations?
Click to expand...
Yes, I did an article about balsa core using both Tramex and Klein, comparing the two. There was very little difference in accuracy.

That said, the Tramex meter is probably better for thick solid glass. It can read deeper, or at least the was my observation. Because the moisture travels very quickly through the depth of the balsa core (along the grain), wet is wet and it won't matter. Also, penitrating deeper will pick up more effects from variations in thickness and internal structure.

It's complicated. It will never be as simple as reading a number from the screen.

----

The other thing to remember is that 20-30 years ago, precision electronic meter, like ultrasound, were $$$$. Like computers, capable units are now cheap.
 
The Tramex seemed to become a recc'd unit back in the 90's when I was Surveying in UK .. but I have to mention that because of its sensitivity .. was at times mis-used / understood by the user ....
It really should be used in conjunction with following Nigel Clegg's - The Osmosis Myth Explored Pt1 + 2.

At the time Nigel and I were communicating - he was the main dealer for Tramex - and it was extremely rewarding to discuss with him.
 
thinwater said:
Yes, I did an article about balsa core using both Tramex and Klein, comparing the two. There was very little difference in accuracy.

That said, the Tramex meter is probably better for thick solid glass. It can read deeper, or at least the was my observation. Because the moisture travels very quickly through the depth of the balsa core (along the grain), wet is wet and it won't matter. Also, penitrating deeper will pick up more effects from variations in thickness and internal structure.

It's complicated. It will never be as simple as reading a number from the screen.

----

The other thing to remember is that 20-30 years ago, precision electronic meter, like ultrasound, were $$$$. Like computers, capable units are now cheap.
Click to expand...
Lidl have one for a tenner on the "from Sun 21/12" (page 30) catalogue.
 
NBs said:
Thermal camera reveals moisture layer in boat hull structure, you can read this metod.

https://www.almarinesurveyors.com/s...pping-with-thermal-imaging-saves-yacht-hulls/
Click to expand...
Reads like a sales pitch, because that's what it is.

I had a quick look for a critical review of the technique, but didnt find one.

I would, however, assume that the cost of the gear puts it out of DIY reach, and the interpretation of the images may, in any case, not be possible for the amateur and might be questionable for the pro.

This article

https://thebluematter.com/thermal-imaging-in-marine-surveys/

does show some hull IR camera images paired with some visible light (?) images with numbers written on the hull surface. There is no explanation of these but I would assume that the numbers are derived from "conventional" point moisture meter readings intended to support the interpretation of the IR images.

This doesnt look all that convincing, and it may be that moisture meter readings are needed to support the IR interpretation, which thus mostly adds speed and comprehensiveness of coverage for a preliminary overall survey, though probably at considerable cost.
 
pcatterall said:
May get the Lidl cheapo and test it on a mock up deck sandwich and report here! Just need to find some balsa !! For info I see the Klein ET 140 on amazon at £50 and Farnell at £105 !
Click to expand...
The Lidl offer is for the Parkside - which is a standard two-prong type. Useless for assessing a balsa core, unless you fancy drilling lots of little holes in your deck.Parkside meter

Nigel Clegg is still going (as Refueler says, a very pleasant chap to deal with), and is selling the Tramex Skipper V.
Passion for Paint

Alternatively, if this is just a one-off, it is possible to hire a unit for a couple of weeks. For example, Bearing Pro Tools lists one of the older models on their website (no personal experience or recommendation):
BearingPro
 
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