Liveaboard Dream - Not a Good Start .......

[WYLMAW]

My husband left the UK last week with a professional delivery crew to take our classic boat down to Greece for the next (and hopefully quieter) stage of our lives. Everything had been well planned and every known risk mitigated with many equipment upgrades and various surveys. We could not have been better prepared. Or so we thought.

But the Gods did not smile on us. Coming down the Chanel du Four in a Force 2-3 there was a sudden catastophic failure of the wooden main mast and it crashed down, bringing the mizzen with it. Miraculously no-one was injured but the damage is quite sustantial. So, I am asking for some advice, something to steer our thinking in the right direction. We are looking at maybe replacing our wooden spars with modern metal ones, not quite in keeping with our beautiful boat but we are looking at the options and we know nothing about them. Anyone got any advice on what to consider? I also need to replace the Wind Generator - ours is now in Davy Jones Locker with lots of other kit - anyone got a view on really good or bad ones,? I am doing as much on-line research as is humanly possible but the subject area is vast.

We are currently near Brest. Has anyone dealt with really good or 'unreliable' shipwrights, riggers, stainless steel people, sailmakers or repair yards around Brest? Basically I need some quick and simple references, if only to say 'Try Madam Bloggs' or 'I would not use Monsiuer Bloggs again' would help. The problem is we are up against the clock and still in a bit in shock. Any ideas would be gratefully received.

 

[Nostrodamus]

PM sent...

 

[silver-fox]

Sorry to hear you have had such a torrid christening into the cruising life.

I offer the following advice for your consideration.

1. Losing a mast is a pretty rare occurrence for us cruising folk. Often the mast coming down is a result of rigging failure rather than the mast itself, so you need to work out what actually failed - so you can stop it happening again.

2. I have sailed for many years with both wood and aluminium masts and have found both equally reliable. The pro for wood is you stay in character. The pro for aluminium is near zero maintenance. Wood masts properly constructed and stayed are plenty strong enough and have stood the test of time. There are other factors involving costs, weight etc but I am trying to keep this straightforward.

3. Finally, unless you speak fluent French (and perhaps even if you do) I would make every effort to get the boat back to the UK for two reasons

- My experience is that it is much cheaper to get the work done in the UK
- You have enough challenges without introducing communication problems

Good luck with the repairs

Onwards and upwards......

 

[Tranona]

If you are claiming on your insurance this may influence what you do and particularly where you get it done. I am with Silver Fox in looking to get it back to UK. Sounds like a £20k+ job for two masts and rigging and think I would be happier dealing with a UK yard and a UK surveyor. There are competent people who can do the work in Devon or Cornwall, and even if you truck it back it is likely to be cheaper overall.

 

[Borden]

I second the 'return to the UK' advice.

Brest is not far and you'll avoid having to address many of the questions you pose above.
I can understand that having set off on living the dream you may not want to retrace your steps but it will be worth the mileage in the long run.
If I had a classic boat and was going back to the UK for repairs I'd head straight for Elephant Boat Yard at Burseldon on the Hamble River. You'll find just about every service you'll need there or within 20 minutes bike ride. I spent 3 months there doing a final fit out in 2006 prior to heading south.

As for a wind genny, I'd recommend the D400.

Hope all goes well for you.
Colin

 

[charles_reed]

I'd strongly recommend getting in touch with Z Diffusion @ Perigny. They're one of the biggest sparmakers in the world (coming back to the UK is a hole-in-the head - there are no UK sparmakers).
Lulu, who runs their rigging side, and Loic Gilbert both speak perfect English.

One mustn't forget, in our English arrogance, that after the US, France is the largest boating market in the world. You'll do better, more inexpensively, whether you have alloy or wooden, in France than in the UK. And you won't have to move the boat.
Brest is a little much a backwater - most of the specialists are in la Rochelle.

 

[capnsensible]

I was surprised at the return to UK responses. Ive had lots of work carried out over the years away from En ger land. No problems, sometimes easier!

Whatever you decide, good luck, hope you get back to your dream soon.

 

[chinita]

I'd strongly recommend getting in touch with Z Diffusion @ Perigny. They're one of the biggest sparmakers in the world (coming back to the UK is a hole-in-the head - there are no UK sparmakers).
Lulu, who runs their rigging side, and Loic Gilbert both speak perfect English.

One mustn't forget, in our English arrogance, that after the US, France is the largest boating market in the world. You'll do better, more inexpensively, whether you have alloy or wooden, in France than in the UK. And you won't have to move the boat.
Brest is a little much a backwater - most of the specialists are in la Rochelle.

+1

Also, of all the places to fetch up in France, Brest is probably the most in tune with classic yachts.

 

[WYLMAW]

Silver-fox, the initial, verbal, opinion of the insurance company surveyor is that the main mast had de-laminated internally, no outside sign of it at any place on the mast; we could never have known about it. The rigging (our first thought) was 'in excellent condition' and the masts 'have obviously been very well looked after' - my husband paid more attention to them over the last 15 years than to me and our cat. All we could have done was do an ultra-sound thingy of the masts which is not alway conclusive. Both masts are in several pieces. My French is good enough to ask the subcontractor if he would like a cup of tea so I think we are going to have issues here.

 

[Hydra]

If you intend to have your masts repaired or new wooden masts installed, I would suggest contacting "Chantier du Guip" in Brest: they specialise in building and restoring wooden boats and wooden masts. See their website: http://www.chantierduguip.com/

They are Quai du Commandant Malbert in the merchant port, close to Marina du Château

Tél. : +33 (0)2 98 43 27 07, e-mail : guip29@chantierduguip.com

Alain

 

[Kukri]

+1

Also, of all the places to fetch up in France, Brest is probably the most in tune with classic yachts.

+2

Rather a lot of French yachtsmen and boatbuilders are Anglophones and Anglophiles.

I've known people who did their fitting out of classic boats for RTWs and Atlantic circuits in France (Brest and Douarnanez) for that very reason.

 

[ribrage]

My husband left the UK last week with a professional delivery crew to take our classic boat down to Greece for the next (and hopefully quieter) stage of our lives. Everything had been well planned and every known risk mitigated with many equipment upgrades and various surveys. We could not have been better prepared. Or so we thought.

But the Gods did not smile on us. Coming down the Chanel du Four in a Force 2-3 there was a sudden catastophic failure of the wooden main mast and it crashed down, bringing the mizzen with it. Miraculously no-one was injured but the damage is quite sustantial. So, I am asking for some advice, something to steer our thinking in the right direction. We are looking at maybe replacing our wooden spars with modern metal ones, not quite in keeping with our beautiful boat but we are looking at the options and we know nothing about them. Anyone got any advice on what to consider? I also need to replace the Wind Generator - ours is now in Davy Jones Locker with lots of other kit - anyone got a view on really good or bad ones,? I am doing as much on-line research as is humanly possible but the subject area is vast.

We are currently near Brest. Has anyone dealt with really good or 'unreliable' shipwrights, riggers, stainless steel people, sailmakers or repair yards around Brest? Basically I need some quick and simple references, if only to say 'Try Madam Bloggs' or 'I would not use Monsiuer Bloggs again' would help. The problem is we are up against the clock and still in a bit in shock. Any ideas would be gratefully received.

ouch thats not a good start to your trip at all and firstly condolences , it sounds like an expensive repair, so your first phone call needs to be to your insurers, who im sure will make their own arrangements for the repair, if however your left footing the bill yourself, then getting it back to the Uk has the only advantage of no language barrier , the french have been building and restoring boats for as long as we brits have , if it were my choice id be chasing the insurers first and a french yard second, and if then i cant get a sensible price or feel out of my depth with language and logistics barriers, Id THEN consider getting the yacht back to the Uk.

google has to be your best friend, start researching similar boats to your selves and where in France they were built or restored, this will at least give you an idea of where you need to be , but I suspect Brest or la Rochelle will come out ahead of many other ports, the advantage to Brest is transport links to and from the UK , Roscoff is a short trip away from Brest in a van or car for transporting tools equipment or people via the Plymouth to Roscoff ferry. The airport at brest is also excellent and has a Flybe link to Southampton with flights around £50 each way.

good luck

 

[charles_reed]

+1

Also, of all the places to fetch up in France, Brest is probably the most in tune with classic yachts.

2nd only to Douarnenez, with it's classic Basin des Vieilles.

 

[charles_reed]

I'd suggest awaiting the response of the insurers, before you decide what where and how you have it done.
My experience is that they will accept subsequent damage in dismasting, but frequently decline the original replacement.
If you have to pay for the mast replacement, you and your husband might prefer to substitute with alloy spars - about 1/2 the price.

Best of luck with your repair - one thing, if it had to happen it couldn't be in a better place.

 

[silver-fox]

Silver-fox, the initial, verbal, opinion of the insurance company surveyor is that the main mast had de-laminated internally, no outside sign of it at any place on the mast; we could never have known about it. The rigging (our first thought) was 'in excellent condition' and the masts 'have obviously been very well looked after' - my husband paid more attention to them over the last 15 years than to me and our cat. All we could have done was do an ultra-sound thingy of the masts which is not alway conclusive. Both masts are in several pieces. My French is good enough to ask the subcontractor if he would like a cup of tea so I think we are going to have issues here.

Well at least you know the cause and can be very confident it won't recur in the near future.

One of the great features of this forum is the wealth of knowledge forumites have and their willingness to contribute.


One of the more disconcerting features is that a few of our contributors fall into the abrasive "sometimes wrong but always certain" style and present opinions as facts. You will soon get used it and sort the wheat from the chaff.

My personal experience has been that parts and labour have been lower in cost - irrespective of the country of origin - to the extent where it has been cheaper to pay shipping costs out to Mediterranean Europe or North Africa than to buy from local suppliers.

I do not have any direct experience of suppliers on the French Atlantic coast - nor of French law - should you get into a tussle with a supplier - and so cannot comment on either.

Finally if you have any photos of the failed mast and your boat, I would like to see them if you are not too busy to post them on here.

Good luck

 

[Gerry]

Can't offer any advice on the mast issue but we have a KISS wind generator. Have been cruising for 12 years now and still love the thing to its. Very simple to install, no fancy electronics and keeps our batteries well charged 98% of the time. Granted we don't run a fridge or fancy electronics. Simple to maintain, gave ours it's first overhaul last year, new blades and control box. Nothing wrong with the old ones but with an ocean crossing looming it seemed the right time to tackle that job......

 

[WYLMAW]

Hydra, I contacted them today and they are going to do a quote - as soon as I send the specs....

 

[WYLMAW]

Insurers, Pantaneus, are being excellent so far, even made sure I had company at home when I rang to thel them my husband was in trouble, awash and vey grumpy - when I said I only have a cat at home just now (*sob*) he said ' Cats are good theyknow when you are upset and they will be there for you'. The proof is in the pudding.....

 

[WYLMAW]

Chinita, you probably know our boat, she was at Pin Mll and latterly at SYH Levington

 

[WYLMAW]

OK, I can do this. Now over the shock and the whinging / sobbing . I am a project manager - Viv-cCx - I too am ex Pecten. Am now a Project Manager for Operation Re-build broken Boat. Dry your eyes and thank you all for you help - PLEASE KEEP IT COMING. I am moving to Brittany on 16th July to stay on the boat (husband and cat somewhat startled) to over-see project (at Pantaneus suggestion) . I speak French like a native - of Pin Mill Norfolk. I can do this..,... Please keepi n touch, you have been monumental in this for me.