Lithium batteries - are they worth it?

If anyone can afford several thousand pounds for batteries for your boat then I suspect your more of a 'Yachting' or 'Yachting Monthly' reader rather than 'Practical Boat Owner' subscriber sort of person and have never lifted a spanner on your boat in it's entire ownership.
 
I've been using & building lithium batteries in various forms now for several years and not sure if I would 100% trust them on a boat. Some of them or ok, ish but they can also be exceptionally volatile. Especially in a short circuit or wiring failure. A model club member in our club lost his car to a bad lipo battery he was charging in his car that went poof. We carry our batteries in old ammo boxes and charge them in fireproof bags. I know lipo's are the wrost of the bunch for this though.
 
Tammany said:
I've been using & building lithium batteries in various forms now for several years and not sure if I would 100% trust them on a boat. Some of them or ok, ish but they can also be exceptionally volatile. Especially in a short circuit or wiring failure. A model club member in our club lost his car to a bad lipo battery he was charging in his car that went poof. We carry our batteries in old ammo boxes and charge them in fireproof bags. I know lipo's are the wrost of the bunch for this though.
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Thanks for your perceptive contributions to this thread. Fortunately I am so wealthy I can employ people to burn down my Sadler 32 with zero personal risk.
 
Tammany said:
I've been using & building lithium batteries in various forms now for several years and not sure if I would 100% trust them on a boat. Some of them or ok, ish but they can also be exceptionally volatile. Especially in a short circuit or wiring failure. A model club member in our club lost his car to a bad lipo battery he was charging in his car that went poof. We carry our batteries in old ammo boxes and charge them in fireproof bags. I know lipo's are the wrost of the bunch for this though.
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They are not comparable to lifepo4 as regards safety. Chalk and cheese.
 
gregcope said:
And I see @Poey50 Posted a cell supplier. Must read the thread better next time!!!
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I did post a supplier in China (not on AliExpress) from which I am purchasing cells. This supplier has been used many times before on various forums and seems relatively trustworthy. I paid an extra 5% to use Paypal to give more protection. However, past performance is no definite guide to current or future performance and Chinese trading ethics can vary. So, on reflection, I took my post down reckoning that anyone who has done the necessary research to go down the DIY lithium rabbit hole will eventually find their way on their own. Anyone wanting more information can PM me. My main point (given the original title of this thread) is to say that LiFePO4 has dropped further in price as Chinese warehouses are filling up. Transport costs seem also to be lower. My 4 x 271 ah cells were £620 delivered price. (This in LFP being equivalent in capacity to approx 500ah of lead acid, and together less than the size - and considerably less weight - than of one of the usual 100ah lead acid batteries.)

Plus a small plea. Before anyone else wants to confidently announce to this list how little they know about LFP safety issues, I recommend reading the four or five other times this has come up so far. No battery is safe and the energy density of these is fairly awesome but, on the whole, you are more at risk from your mobile phone.
 
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Poey50 said:
...LiFePO4 has dropped further in price as Chinese warehouses are filling up. Transport costs seem also to be lower. My 4 x 271 ah cells were £620 delivered price. (This in LFP being equivalent in capacity to approx 500ah of lead acid, and ..
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That is about a third less than I have seen for a top brand. How sure are you that they are good? Do you have any direct China sourcing tips as I am about to buy a bunch?
 
Zing said:
That is about a third less than I have seen for a top brand. How sure are you that they are good? Do you have any direct China sourcing tips as I am about to buy a bunch?
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This is for the smaller aluminium cased cells. Yes, the important questions about quality are whether they are new, grade A and properly matched. People do get ripped off. I'm not going to make a public recommendation but I suggest anyone interested join the DIY Solar Forum (Will Prowse's forum). Search for posts by Ghostwriter66. She has been dealing with LFP suppliers in China for several years and has three companies she deals with. For more direct information on who I ordered from you are welcome to PM me.
 
Poey50 said:
This is for the smaller aluminium cased cells. Yes, the important questions about quality are whether they are new, grade A and properly matched. People do get ripped off. I'm not going to make a public recommendation but I suggest anyone interested join the DIY Solar Forum (Will Prowse's forum). Search for posts by Ghostwriter66. She has been dealing with LFP suppliers in China for several years and has three companies she deals with. For more direct information on who I ordered from you are welcome to PM me.
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Thanks. I’ll do some reading. It’s clearly a rat infested snake pit. With a few cockroaches scurrying around.
 
Zing said:
Thanks. I’ll do some reading. It’s clearly a rat infested snake pit. With a few cockroaches scurrying around.
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It depends. The business that Ghostwriter works for imports large numbers of cells and does regular capacity testing on batches. So far they haven't found a bad cell. But she develops relationships with the firms concerned and people will know not to rip her off. The same may not be said if you are a one-off purchaser since you may be the ideal person to offload some grade B cells which will look exactly the same. So joining forums, name-dropping those they have a relationship with gives you some protection. Some people have negotiated discounts for forums with certain firms. However you go, spending time on Lithium Batteries on a Boat Facebook group and DIY Solar Forum, especially, will be informative and give some protection in any dealings as firms will know you can bring down the reputation for all members of that forum (each has several thousand members). There are some exceptionally knowledgable and experienced people on both forums and that will help avoid a mis-step. But, bottom line is you are inevitably taking some kind of risk whereas buying Winston cells from GWL in the Czech Republic removes all of that ... but that's what you pay the extra £4-500 for.
 
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Poey50 said:
I hadn't seen the DIYBMS before but I see there are a few instructional videos on YouTube. Do you have your soldering iron out yet GHA? :)
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That’s not the sort of thing you ought to be soldering. Parts that small need doing by machines.
 
vas said:
interesting if a bit slow, well annoyingly slow. Could have said the same few things in 4-5mins max, not 22...
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I can watch almost nothing on YouTube for this reason.

I think the YouTube monetisation rules or algorithms incentivise longer videos, so they all become more like entertainment TV programming than a way to simply convey information. "Hello, Jules here again, with another episode of X. In this show I'll be telling you Y, so I hope you'll stay with us, it'll be lots of fun ? (intro sequence) ?"
 
Zing said:
That’s not the sort of thing you ought to be soldering. Parts that small need doing by machines.
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I've done boards like that by hand before, its not too difficult, you apply a tiny bit of solder paste out of a syringe to each pad on the bare circuit board, then place all the components on top with tweezers... then into a cheap electric toaster oven.
 
Poey50 said:
Do you have your soldering iron out yet GHA? :)
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Not quite so often now Jlcpcb.com do boards for a few dollars with surface mounted components already soldered :cool:
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Kai_ said:
I've done boards like that by hand before, its not too difficult, you apply a tiny bit of solder paste out of a syringe to each pad on the bare circuit board, then place all the components on top with tweezers... then into a cheap electric toaster oven.
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My mate solders up micro boards with an air soldering system ? I had a board for one of my RC tx's and the chip needed modifying ... the designer had first batch of boards with a fault - asked us buyers if we would accept them as is and modify ourselves while waiting for corrected ... I said yes ... gave it to my mate ... next day done and fitted ... still works today 4 years later.
I received corrected boards and fitted one to another TX I had ...

Those chips - I needed magnifying glass to see the pins and solder points !!
 
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