Lighten up!

[Roberto]

Is the angle of heel different up there?

Also, wave heights above say 1.5-2m will periodically hide deck level lights, should a tricolour be hidden by waves there would be something more serious to worry about than visibility.

 

[Lightwave395]

The Ultim trimarans have strobe lights on the masthead. Romain Pilliards 'Use it again' was moored near us in Roscoff for 24 hours while the bow was rebuilt and the strobe was left on for a night, it lit up the area around it

 

[Juan Twothree]

That is a powerful story, and made more so by the fact that both vessels were manned and behaving normally.

What I found particularly poignant was that it was only when a body was found, a couple of days later, that anyone knew something was wrong. And it was only when the partner of the first man had identified his body, and asked about the other two crew, that a search was commenced.

Most of the fatalities that I have dealt with in my lifeboating career have involved people who have been dead for hours, or in some cases days, before the alarm was raised.

 

[thinwater]

Why no discussion of red-over-green? It is a legal option.

Colregs requires it for large sailboats, but never implies that it is NOT acceptable for smaller boats. Years ago the power requirements were unattractive, but not anymore. It also has the advantage of providing light both high and low, and multiple lights rather than a single point. Easy to remember: "red-over-green, sailing machine."

RULE 25
(a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:
(i) sidelights; and
(ii) a stern light.
(b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights prescribed
in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or
near the top of the mast where it can best be seen. [note that this is only an exception for small boats--nothing implies it is preferred.]
(c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in
paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they
can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red
and the lower green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction
with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (b) of this Rule.

Discuss why or why not. It is what you have long seen on larger yachts, because it provides better visibility.

 

[thinwater]

The Ultim trimarans have strobe lights on the masthead. Romain Pilliards 'Use it again' was moored near us in Roscoff for 24 hours while the bow was rebuilt and the strobe was left on for a night, it lit up the area around it

Illegal per Colregs. Not a gray area. As noted in post 37, this was again suggested to Colregs and rejected. No strobes.

Also, the other boats in the harbor might cut you loose! At the very least, they will piss in your dinghy.

 

[Roberto]

Why no discussion of red-over-green? It is a legal option.


Discuss why or why not. It is what you have long seen on larger yachts, because it provides better visibility.

Two aspects come to mind, IIRC the Colregs Annex I
Being "all-round" they should respect the "less than 6° obscured sector" requirement, which would rule out mounting anything below masthead, there are sails up and the obscured sector would be a lot larger.
There must be a minimum 1m vertical spacing between them, not sure it would be entirely practical to have a long pole above the mast.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

"fishing boats returning to port on autopilot with no one at the wheel." ...... only then ?? Actually many FB's have no-one keeping watch most of the time as they are intent on 'catch' ....

There is a profound difference between fishing and bombing back to port. This is something I experience a lot along the Spanish coast but luckily all the fishing vessels I've seen in the last 3 years of sailing have and use AIS which allows me to monitor them from when they leave port to when they go home and as such I minimise the risk of any conflicts but I have on two occasions given a short radio call in plenty of time for me to manoeuvre if required and in both cases the vessels took avoiding action and gave a wave as they passed close but safely by.

 

[Refueler]

Is the angle of heel different up there?

Think you missed the point .... of course the actual angle of heel is same .... BUT the deck lights even on a pulpit as mine are sufficiently separated to not be too badly affected by heel. But a Tri on the mast top which already suffers poor colour light segregation - is worse when heeled ....

 

[Refueler]

There is a profound difference between fishing and bombing back to port. This is something I experience a lot along the Spanish coast but luckily all the fishing vessels I've seen in the last 3 years of sailing have and use AIS which allows me to monitor them from when they leave port to when they go home and as such I minimise the risk of any conflicts but I have on two occasions given a short radio call in plenty of time for me to manoeuvre if required and in both cases the vessels took avoiding action and gave a wave as they passed close but safely by.

I know it takes this to extreme ..... but you should experience approaching the narrows into the BoHai sea of China ............. something you will never forget ........ mass of Fishing Boats literally end to end .. side to side .... right across the waters .....

Having taken a 45,000 tonner through there on a number of cargoes .... you prefer not to !!

 

[Roberto]

There is a profound difference between fishing and bombing back to port. This is something I experience a lot along the Spanish coast

Huh! I was once entering Camariñas late night/very early morning, the entrance has a sort of transit which is not too wide, and all of a sudden all the fishing fleet began to come out of the port one after the other as if they had been given some sort of 3-2-1 GO! AIS screen filled up with alarms. I sort of waited on one side of the transit and despite being the only boat going in, they all kept to the other side of the transit. I suppose they had seen me (?).

 

[zoidberg]

Had a 'lights' episode transiting south off the NW Spanish coast some years ago. We encountered a line of near-stationary ( or very slow ) boats aligned N-S each showing one humungously powerful yellow-amber all-round light that lit up the sea for a mile or so around each.

They were 3-4 miles apart.

Some kind of fishing....?

 

[steveallan]

Had a 'lights' episode transiting south off the NW Spanish coast some years ago. We encountered a line of near-stationary ( or very slow ) boats aligned N-S each showing one humungously powerful yellow-amber all-round light that lit up the sea for a mile or so around each.

They were 3-4 miles apart.

Some kind of fishing....?

Fishing for squid

 

[thinwater]

Two aspects come to mind, IIRC the Colregs Annex I
Being "all-round" they should respect the "less than 6° obscured sector" requirement, which would rule out mounting anything below masthead, there are sails up and the obscured sector would be a lot larger.
There must be a minimum 1m vertical spacing between them, not sure it would be entirely practical to have a long pole above the mast.

All-around. True. The solution, which I have seen a few times, is to mount two green lights on both sides of the mast, 1 meter down. In fact, with two lights, the blocked sectors even with sails are quite small, and the light goes through and reflects off the sails (as other have nentioned, this is a good thing). The red on top is easily done with an all-around. As for the sails, that was a USCG image, so they are OK with it and I am in the US. International, I could not say.

No pole above the mast needed.

This is what I would do, rather than a tricolor.

 

[Roberto]

All-around. True. The solution, which I have seen a few times, is to mount two green lights on both sides of the mast, 1 meter down. In fact, with two lights, the blocked sectors even with sails are quite small, and the light goes through and reflects off the sails (as other have nentioned, this is a good thing). The red on top is easily done with an all-around. As for the sails, that was a USCG image, so they are OK with it and I am in the US. International, I could not say.

No pole above the mast needed.

This is what I would do, rather than a tricolor.

Hmm, that makes 6 lights instead of one. Surely an option, I personally would not go that far, the tricolour hasn't given me any specific problems until now
Ok one caution: a bit like anchor lights at the top of the mast, sometimes they become invisible at very short distances, or other vessels at short distances may not look upward for lights 15+m above sea level, during port approaches and the like I am usually motoring so I generally switch to deck level lights (+ motoring white).

edit
Just made a quick scaled sketch for a masthead rigging and a hoisted genoa, the lower leeward all-round green light 1m below mast head level might possibly not exceed the 6° obscured sector requirement while running downwind, all other points of sail would not be compliant with international Colregs Annex I. As you say the US has slightly different regulations.

 

[wonkywinch]

You could just do whatever you want. I suggest driving with your high beams on. People will see you.

This thread is about what is proper, legal, and considerate.

Which is what motorcyclists have been doing for years whilst motorists get out an say "I didn't see you". Problem is those LED/xenon lights on bikes are painful on full beam.

 

[thinwater]

Think you missed the point .... of course the actual angle of heel is same .... BUT the deck lights even on a pulpit as mine are sufficiently separated to not be too badly affected by heel. But a Tri on the mast top which already suffers poor colour light segregation - is worse when heeled ....

True. One point of light with "smearing" of colors.

 

[boomerangben]

White pyro. That’ll get you seen

 

[Neeves]

Interesting story but irrelevant to the question.

Which was how can anyone tell if a red or green light is up the mast or on the bow?

"Many, some, watch keeps on commercial vessels simply do not see many tricolours - they don't know what they are, or represent."

How can anyone possibly know that it's a tricolour just from a red dot in the distance?

He does not need to know how the red light is produced or where it is located - he only needs to know its a yacht.

I stand to be corrected but a single and consistent red only light, that may or may not flicker in swell, is a yacht. It does not matter how the red dot is produced, deck light, tricolour but a single red light is defined as a yacht, not under power. The watch keeper on the other vessel should know this - without worrying if its a deck or masthead light - in fact the latter is totally irrelevant (except that he should see the masthead light at a greater distance (and on. yacht it will 'wobble').

What a silly question.

There is nothing wrong with the watch keeper querying the single red light, that's why he has VHF and AIS etc etc - but to doubt the answer provided seems perverse. After the Sydney Hobart race there will be 100 yachts heading north from Tasmania some capable of comfortably exceeding 10 knots under sail - seeing a single red, or green light will be the norm.

Jonathan

 

[thinwater]

Hmm, that makes 6 lights instead of one. Surely an option, I personally would not go that far, the tricolour hasn't given me any specific problems until now
Ok one caution: a bit like anchor lights at the top of the mast, sometimes they become invisible at very short distances, or other vessels at short distances may not look upward for lights 15+m above sea level, during port approaches and the like I am usually motoring so I generally switch to deck level lights (+ motoring white).

edit
Just made a quick scaled sketch for a masthead rigging and a hoisted genoa, the lower leeward all-round green light 1m below mast head level might possibly not exceed the 6° obscured sector requirement while running downwind, all other points of sail would not be compliant with international Colregs Annex I. As you say the US has slightly different regulations.

Actually, the US reg is Colregs verbatim, identical. But the image is in the printed regulation, making it a valid interpretation in the US. Internationally I have no personal knowledge... and for my personal use it does not matter.

You could add a light mast above the top of the mast. It would only be 18 inches above your antenna, so not that much more height.

BTW, I think you get it, but for other readers, for the purposes of Colregs, the top of the mast is not the masthead. The masthead is about 1/3 down and is where the steaming light is. This too is in the Colregs appendix. Also, vertually none of us have a fore mast. We have a mainmast and we might have a mizzen. Perhaps someone has a schooner.

One advantage is that you will have both high and low lights. Also, they are separated, so there is much improved ability to estimate range.

 

[Roberto]

Actually, the US reg is Colregs verbatim, identical. But the image is in the printed regulation, making it a valid interpretation in the US. Internationally I have no personal knowledge... and for my personal use it does not matter.

You could add a light mast above the top of the mast. It would only be 18 inches above your antenna, so not that much more height.

One advantage is that you will have both high and low lights. Also, they are separated, so there is much improved ability to estimate range.

Plenty of option for everyone