Liferaft use ?

[Gaffer]

The previous post by "ceeager" about liferafts has got me thinking..........prettywell everybody out there has got one in one form or another, so there must be thousands of them about, but how many times in a season is a liferaft actually used for real !!

When I went across the pond I had two crew and fortunately one had a liferaft in a valease which he loand for the trip. We had a bit of a disagreement on the other side and he got the hump and flew home and took his liferaft with him.

I singlehanded from Antigua to Newport RI via Bermuda, and before starting thaught hard about the liferaft situation. I concluded that the only circumstance in which I would need one would be if I was to be run down in the night by a larger vessel, and should that happen the chances of my being able to deploy a liferaft in time were slim at best, so I made the voyage without a liferaaft. Although I did have a partially inflated Avon Redstart lightly lashed on deck ....just in case...

Anyway, nothing exciting happend, and I was just wondering what sort of useage these essential items of equipment get..........has anyone got any stories where they were obliged to take to a liferaft for real, and could they tell us what it is like to have such an experience..............

 

[Jacket]

>I concluded that the only circumstance in which I would need one would be if I >was to be run down in the night by a larger vessel

What about hitting something in the water, sterngland leaking, loosing the rudder and getting lots of water in that way? Or have you gat a multihull which won't sink?

 

[Gaffer]

The boat was a brand new Victoria 30, long keel, encapsulated ballast. Very strongly built, if it hit something floating in the water, it probably wouldn't sink it, but if it did, I could sit on whatever it was that was floating in the water and have a good chance of survival. The rudder was hung on the keel and if it was riped off it would not have made ny difference, and I doubt wheather a leaking stern gland would sink me.........

 

[Jacket]

Brave man!

Hitting a container at 6 kts would hole most boats, and I wouldn't fancy trying to survive sitting on top of a floating container for too long (Then again, having spent 5 hours in a liferaft I wouldn't fancy spending long in one of them either).

As for a leaking stern gland not sinking you, didn't Rod Somebody (the pilot book guy) loose his boat in the Red Sea last year due to a leaky stern gland?

I guess maybe I'm just a wimp, but I quite like having my liferaft around (even if it is worth almost as much as my boat, and takes up one of the three berths).

 

[Gaffer]

Re: Brave man!

So rather than criticise every last word of my story, why don't you tell us all what it was like to be in a liferaft for 5 hours, and what were the events which led up to this experience...........

 

[VMALLOWS]

I'm inclined to your way of thinking. After all, a cross-channel is as likely to require a life-raft as a transatlantic (I would say more so given some encounters I've had in the Channel!). How many of us carry liferafts when we go to Cherbourg?... I certainly don't.

Yes, I would idealy carry a fully certified, up to date raft; and the latest EPIRB. But the reality (money) is I that I would not be sailing at all.

 

[kgi]

most people think that you thrrow it in pull the line it inflates and you climb in!!!!!!!! not so, half of the time they inflate upside down, and to right one can take an enormous amount of effort, then there is absolutely no garantee that it will stay that way. i use my inflatable as my emergency raft, purely for weight/space/cost considerations, and because you use your dinghy a lot you know what to expect and you know it will inflate when you need it to and that it will hold the air you have put in it. at the end of the day doing a liferaft course is well worth it, at least you will have some idea of what you are up against. the late Geoff Packs book on cruising is worth looking at with regard to using your dinghy as an "active" rescue vessel as opposed to the liferaft which just goes where the wind blows it, the tinker tramp with the canopy is what Mr Pack had in mind as a model for his own ideas well thats my two penn'orth cheers keith

 

[Jacket]

Re: Brave man!

Touchy, aren't we?

Wasn't criticising your story, Just trying to explain why I think there's always a chance of sinking, and why I feel better carrying a liferaft. That was the whole point of your post in the first place, wasn't it?

As another post on this thread points out, you're as linkely to sink crossing the channel, or even just sailing locally. While you're unlikely to sink, surely its sensible to carry a raft? Not many people sail without a VHF and flares, so that they can call for help if its needed. But that relies on other people. At least with a lifereft you can do something to help yourself.

The 5 hours in a liferaft was thanks to the Royal Navy. While carried out in relatively sheltered water, it was F8, with an air temperature of only 2 degrees. Had to jump into the sea of an 18 foot high platform, swim to the liferaft and climb in. The swim was only about 50m, but its amazing how much it takes out of you. Once we were all in, they closed the entrances, then spent the next few hours towing the raft around behind a RIB, to simulate bad weather. Everyone threw up at least twice - it wasn't very pleasant in the raft by the end!

When people say stay with a sinking boat for as long as possible, I believe them. Nothing can be as bad as being in a raft (other than swimming, because you haven't got one- if a 50m swim nearly finished me, I wonder how long someone would survive in the sea? you hear figures of about 5 min in the North sea in the winter. Anyone know how long in the Channel in the summer?)

 

[billmacfarlane]

I've done about 30 channel crossings and don't carry a liferaft. I've just bought one !!!!!

 

[billmacfarlane]

A mate of mine was was single handing on an overnight trip in the Caribbean. He was sailing along in the dark when the boat shuddered , slowed down then carried on sailing. He was in deep water at the time well away from land. About half an hour later he noticed the floorboards were underwater and concluded he had been holed by an underwater object. He sent out some Maydays but didn't get a response. He decided to inflate his liferaft which was was fully serviced. He launched it and pulled the cord and ---- nothing happened. The liferaft would not inflate. He dashed below again to try and trace and stem the leak but in the dark didn't have any luck. He again tried a Mayday and got a response and he gave his position. but he didn't know whether it had been picked up as the water was over his batteries and that Mayday was the last he could send. The water was now over the seats and he concluded that he would have to jump into the water. In a fit of rage he pulled the liferaft back and he jumped up and down on it in sheer frustration. It inflated !!!!!!! He lauched it and jumped in. His boat duly sank and he was rescued the next day as his last Mayday position was picked up.

 

[ceeagr]

I've not had a liferaft up till now but bought one yesterday. I'm doing a trip from the solent to cork at the end of June and can't get my mind the fact that if....if I was put in a position of taking on water and needed to abandon ship I would feel like a complete idiot if I didn't have enough kit to give myself and crew a fighting chance of survival. As the skipper of the boat I feel a moral obligation to have the right kit if I can. It is rather expensive though, but what price do you put on your life. Therefore I have added the following for the Celtic Sea crossing:-

406 EPIRB
Serious set of Bolt cutters
Light for all lifejackets (A Forties)
8 Man offshore liferaft

I've already got:-

Flares
DSC VHF
lifjackets
Safty lines
Hand held VHF
etc......

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

We shall be using the tender, an Avon 280 rib as a liferaft, although there's no real shelter it has power and enough fuel for 20 - 30 miles or so can be carried. The thing will take three children and two adults, just. We are working on the principle that this will be safe enough along the coast and cross Channel in the Straits, the grab bag has flares etc. A handheld VHF would be good but its a money thing.

Comments from the more experienced would be welcome

 

[steffen]

Ever thought about a serious fire onboard? A cousiun of mine had one on a 40ft GRP boat during the night. By the time they discovered the smoke from the engine compartment it was already out of control. The boat burned down to the waterline.

 

[Miker]

I am only a fairweather sailor in the Irish Sea, and I hope that I will never have to use my liferaft. But one never knows! I regard it like house insurance - I pay it but hope that I never have to claim.
On a different but related point, I have just got a digital VHF radio to replace my old clapped out one. I liked the idea of an automatic GPS fix on a Mayday. I also have an emergency aerial, a handheld VHF, a set of flares and a 121 Mhz personal EPIRB. I have a 406 GPS on my shopping list but cannot bring myself to spend the money required.

 

[rex_seadog]

What about fire on board a small boat - you can't just run away as you would on dry land? This is one of my major concerns especially as I have an outboard and need to carry about 10 5 litre cans of petrol for a channel crossing. Not to mention the dangers of gas. This is our second season with a liferaft and I feel a bit easier now.

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Brave man!

Have watched debate with interest
I think the point is they are only worth having if you know how and when to use one.
I note that most people have car accidents within 3 miles of home or work. familiarity breeds contempt. It may be the same with boats although i have no evidence to support this i think we can assume that being in close proximity to home port has no immunising effect.
I beleive carrying a liferaft is essential if you you are going anywhere with guests. And advisable in all other situations. I have been in boats a while but relatively new to skippering. I most firmly plant myself in the cautious camp. I have rushed out on the water once ( against my better judgement) and proceeded to spend the next 5 hrs on a mud bank.

You see accidents reported all the time and think my god that was preventable ( mine certailnly was and only my pride was damaged)

But looking at the recent lake dirstrict school trip you do see what happens when risks do not come off. Hindsight may be a smug bugger so best use foresight whenever possible.

If it Cooks Flys or Floats, Rent it.

 

[webcraft]

Your mate seems to have made a couple of basic errors, Bill:

1/ Didn't check below for water ingress after apparently hitting something

2/ Sent Mayday and attempted to launch liferaft before attempting to find leak

Considering it was half an hour before the water was over the floorboards (still not over batteries) it sounds like a surviveable leak at that point - assuming a functioning bilge pump or two.

I sincerely hope I would have checked for leaks immediately and done something to stem the ingress before abandoning ship - but who can be sure how they will react until it happens to them?

However, I will remember the tip to kick seven bells out of a recalcitrant liferaft should the need arise . . .

- Nick



BlueMoment.Com
http://www.bluemoment.com

 

[LadyInBed]

Re: just bought one

Now that realy is tempting fate!!!

 

[LadyInBed]

I don't sail with one on X channel trips, mainly because I'm normally short handed, and reckon the inflateable would surfice. But they can be hired, which is what I would do if I had a boat full of passangers. But even then not on coastal, normally day passages.

 

[Gaffer]

Thank you for all your replies, but we still didn't get any first hand accounts of the use of liferafts for real. I have been arround boats and boaty people since the mid 1950's and all the reports I have ever heard have been anecdotal.

I think that the conclusion to be drawn is that there are many people out there who are very safety concious and have a fully serviced liferaft on board, and a few that don't. But the actual deployment and use of a liferaft in an emergancy situation is quite rare.