Liferaft size?

[Robin]

I understand the party line of using the smallest possible but there are still other factors to consider:-

Does this mean if 6 people climb into a 12 person raft from QM2 they are doomed?
Do we risk legal action if 6 persons take to a 4 person raft and someone dies?
Do we risk penalties for not having liferaft space to match numbers of persons (in French waters perhaps even though it is not their problem).
If there are just 2 persons whatever you do it is under-personed!
If you have a coded charter boat with 10 berths what raft must it carry?
If a coded charter boat has an 8 person raft what happens if just 2 are on board?
If you have a 4 person raft with 4 in it they can only sit with knees up. What if one or more is injured? Where does the extra survival gear go?
What percentage of liferaft deployments are in capsizing conditions?

I thought long and hard about this and went for a 6 person for our (now) 6 berths and normal 2 on board. Then I thought harder and decided it had to be launchable one handed from the pushpit. Then I thought again and again and again and decided I NEVER EVER want to have to use the damn thing!

PS we do have a double bottom. Actually SWMBO says mine is a treble.

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[rickwat]

Dummies

Surely if underoccupancy is a major problem a built in water fillable per person honeycomb substitute could be incorporated at build but I would have thought the stability pockets underneath would be better so long as they are of sufficient size.

Rick

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[TheBoatman]

Re: Dummies

Underoccupancy is not a serious problem, on my sea survival course with P&O we launched one of their 30 person L/rafts and there were only 14 on the course. Once we all got inside and closed up within 5 mins we had to let the heat out it was so hot.
If these things are so unstable it's likely to blow over before you even get into it?

These days L/rafts are about as good as you can get, all the Solas ones have multiple layered floors, flooding ballast tanks, boarding laders etc.

BTW on my course we were told that the reason we were using this L/raft was that it had become obsolete because it had no ballast tanks or boarding ladder and this was in 1992. We also had to right it from a capsized position, which if you can imagine with a 30 man L/raft isn't easy but achievable.
Getting into the soddin thing even in a flat swimming pool was no joke, hence the saying that wherever possible you should ALWAYS STEP INTO A L/RAFT and stay as dry as possible as it will improve your chances of survival by a factor of 2.

As for coded boats I can comment on commercial angling boats which demand a L/raft for 12, also L/jackets for 12 and that the L/raft should have hydrostatic charges on the release gear, after that it makes no comment about lesser numbers.

For Gods sake guys lets keep some perspective here, should you even be contemplating using this bit of kit the chances are what you were originally traveling on is about to go to the bottom and your only chance of survival is a small rubber inflatable contraption.

Whilst I would prefer to use a named brand with plenty of "history" of life saving I would still be happy to get into a raft made in Outer Mongolia if that was all that was available?

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[BrianJ]

Dont get bigger than you need.. go for the 4 man.. try righting a 6 man in a wave " pool" and see how hard it is , with all your wet weather gear on..
If you have extra crew then hire your 6 man etc...
BrianJ

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[qsiv]

I see your point - but finding space on board the new boat for an 8 man raft is hard. Much of the racing will not need a life radft, so we will leave it ashore, and carting 2x4 is MUCH easier than 1x8. Furthermore, many other times will be family with just 4, so an 8 that can be only moved by me could be a liability.

Intriguingly the ONLY ISAF raft I found at the show doesnt have a double bottom, instead having a laminated floor with heat reflective foil. They find that this is significantly better for heat retention than a double floor, and as it doesnt need separate inflation befor the entire crew climb aboard, prevents people getting colder whilst waiting. The new ISAF/ISO entry slide look as though they will make boarding materially easier.

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[charles_reed]

Conventional wisdom is to go for the smallest with which you can manage - the reasons for this are;-
1. Less likely to be flipped
2. Easier to launch
3. Warmer
4. Easier to right

Put it into focus - average from ditching to rescue pre-EPIRB 5.8 days, post 406 mHz Epirb that's dropped to 8.4 hours. (USCG).

It's excessively cosy inside with the rated number of bodies on board but there's bags of spare buoyancy, so extras can hang on outside.

I'd invest the money saved over the larger raft in a higher quality raft with a more extensive on-board pack, but before any consideration of liferaft I'd invest in a good 406 EPIRB.

Any of you who've been in a liferaft in life, rather than a swimming pool for practice, will know that it's a fate worse than death due to seasickness within 20 minutes of boarding.

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[Sailfree]

Firstly I hope that whatever money we all spend on a liferaft is wasted - as we will never ever need them however:-
After careful consideration and listening to conceived wisdom regarding stability I decided not to go for a large life raft as like you we are often only 2 people on board. I also found an 6 or 8 man incredibly heavy and difficult to get in/out of the cockpit lockers.
My choice was therefore one 4 man life raft in a cannister under helm seat with hydrostatic release and the second one a 4 man valiase life raft that I can lift out of the cockpit locker.
You may be launching after a knockdown and possibly injured ribs etc so I thought the lightest the better.
When attending a life raft test last year I was suprised to learn that a number don't inflate when tested then we have two chances one will work and likewise two chances if one was badly damaged when deployed and two chances that one would be left on board if we were visited by our light fingered bretheren. If you are considering life rafts you might as well be as pessimistic as posible! The optimist would never need to purchase one!
We had to have 8 person total as the boat is charter coded.
Doing the sea survival course was one of our better decisions.

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[PaulJ]

Many thanks one and all for taking the time to respond..... Apologies for not coming back sooner but I have had a problem with my computer which has prevented me from getting online. You have given me much food for thought on both sides and I still can't make up my mind!

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[TheBoatman]

Roger
If you have one under the helmsmans seat with hydrostatic charges, How does it deploy?
Does the seat top come off very easily?
I have the impression that it could deploy before it is clear of the locker thus jaming it in.


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[Sailfree]

On the Dufour 38 the seat lifts straight up and is retained by a weak bungee cord. Ideally we would have time to deploy the liferaft and gently STEP UP to it from a slowly sinking boat or on fire (sea survival course - However much of a mess the boat is in, until it is either on fire or imminently about to sink your boat is your BEST life raft).
While it is technically better on the coachroof it would restrict vision too much. Like everything a compromise but better under helm seat than a locked shut cockpit locker.
Experience suggests that some people abandon ship when it is damaged and they are seasick and tired and believe the boat is in danger. Yet a number of these boats are discovered still floating a few days later (see Fastnet (89), Hobart race, Crieghtons Naturally and Perfect Storm). I find this a worrying point and I am not implying any criticism as I am sure in all these examples the skipper and probably most of the crew were more experienced than me and I suspect better sailors. What worries me is what hope have I got of calling it right in similar circumstances?

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