Liferaft size?

[PaulJ]

One of the main things I was looking at at the Boat Show was Liferafts. As you might expect they vary quite considerably in quality and price and those I particularly liked were the Avon and one by a Danish company called Viking.

"Perceived wisdom" and the line taken by Avon and some others, is that you do not want a liferaft bigger than you need because the weight and distribution of the people on board contibute to the stability of the raft and a six-man raft with only two people in it is prone to capsize in strong winds and big seas. However Viking and one other said that the stability of the raft should be determined by the water ballasting system and they had quite a good video of their raft riding out some biggish (but not huge) waves in an empty state, ie. with nobody in it. It is true that some manufactuers do not make a four-man raft so "they would say that wouldn't they" but Viking do make a four-man, indeed that was the one they had on the stand.

Most of the time we will only be two or three on board but occasionally there will be more. So what do you folks think..... should I get a four-man raft and hire an additional raft for the rare occasions when we have additional crew for an extended period, or should I get a six-man raft and be done with it?

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[Twister_Ken]

Certainly on a survival day I went on the advice (from RNLI) was get the minimum size you need, because of the stability question, and also because the smaller it is the warmer you keep each other!

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[doris]

Having been in the same postion as you for the last few years I hire a 4man raft and build a decent relationship with the provider (Nationwide Marine Hire). This way if ever I need any extra capacity they always provide me with either another 4man or a bigger one at a very competitive price.

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[TheBoatman]

Don't what ever you do buy 2 rafts.

If you have to abandon with 1/2 crew in one and 1/2 crew in the other it just makes finding everyone more difficult.

I would suggest that the size of the raft is equal to the designed sleeping capacity of the boat whilst on a normal passage. I.e. if you go across the channel for a 2 week holiday and there are 6 berths/crew on board then 6 man L/raft is for you.

If you buy a 6 man and there are only 2 of you aboard it shouldn't pose a major problem because you would not expect to be "init" for to long. Providing you've got your mayday message off, snatched the "grab bag" I doubt if you would be alone for more than 2-3 hours before some nice big day-glow orange and blue boat is alongside asking you if they can be of assistance.

IMHO you should be considering a 6 man with double skined floor and water ballast tanks.

Your next decision is Valise or Canister type. Only you can decide that?

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[pugwash]

Seago brand?

I did the same at the Boat Show. My budget is very small and I found the brands you mention very costly. I found a 4-man cannister for about £590 incldg VAT at the Seago stand, a new company run by former Plastimo liferaft blokes who said they were disenchanted with costly, over-engineered stuff and could offer something better. The product is made in China and certified here with all the usual guarantees. The spiel was "layered safety" which I must say makes sense. I know you can argue all ways that you can't spend too little on safety and I don't want to get into that. But the fact is I can't. I can only go sailing if my safety depends on a cost-effective strategic plan. On this basis it might be better, say, to buy a cheapish liferaft plus an EPIRB rather than an expensive one with all the bells and whistles that are unlikely to be needed in the English Channel (we're speaking of local offshore cruising by the way, not transatlantic). I haven't committed myself yet. Does anyone know about Seago?

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[bedouin]

My attitude is that at a pinch you can fit 6 people into a 4 man liferaft. It will have plenty of buoyancy and rescue times in the area in which I sail are going to be measured in hours, not days.

As we have 2 on board far more often than 5 or 6, I've gone for the 4 man.

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[TheBoatman]

Have a look at this site.
seaweather marine.

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[jimi]

Bells and whistles

I would'nt dismiss bells and whisltes so lightly. In a bad situation whisltes are often useful to draw attention to oneself or if you fall overboard for signalling offside. In a desperate situation Bell's is one resort ..

<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..

 

[Talbot]

I bought the raft sized for the number of berths on-board based on availability at the time (secondhand) Yes it is larger than will normally be needed, but that means there is room to stretch out. There is more in the way of survival equipment and I can go to sea with a full boat and not worry. If the liferaft manufacturers are making rafts that are not suitable for less than the maximum number of people then it is not fit for purpose. If it will capsize with less than the maximum number then how is it supposed to stay the right way up when you are initially trying to board it. I take the point that huddling together will keep it warmer, but I have got an inflatable floor, and will have thermal sleeping wraps.

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[pugwash]

Re: Bells and whistles

Don't worry mate, the Bells is in the grab bag, "medicinal use"

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[ParaHandy]

Re: Bells and whistles

if i was lifeboatman, i'd fling you both back in for drinking that muck ... !!

Macallan in little 100ml bottles. that'll do. going down contented and happy ...

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[Robin]

We have a 6 man (Plastimo) despite there normally being just 2 on board. I know all the arguments about stability with fewer on board but that pre-supposes you take to the raft in gi-normous seas, not necessarily the case and perhaps more likely is fire on board or sinking from hitting a submerged object like a container. If you forget the labelled size just look at the 4 man or 6 man from a point of view of which one you would want to be in for real, especially if you hope to take a grab bag and other survival things like water, food and extra clothing with you.

There is another possible scenario to consider in this age of blame and sue. If you had only a 4 man and had a disaster with 6 on board, could you be held liable? Likewise in French waters they might (wrongly but it happens) get tres pernikertay if you have an 8 berth yacht and a 4 man raft, remember the Brit fined for an out of date certificate when he was not even required under UK law (which is what applies) to have a raft! Our boat (originally 10/11 berth!) has been cruiserified down to 6 berths plus a LOT of stowage, hence we have a 6 man raft. If we sink in ultra rough seas, hopefully my weight (good as two!) plus the extra bags and gear will keep us upright long enough, at any rate SWMBO will not have me sitting on her lap!

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[Twister_Ken]

Serious big-brother rubbish

In a survival situation booze is not a good idea. Apart from whatever effect it might have on matters of judgement, it dilates the blood vessels, thus increasing heat loss and accelerating the onset of hypothermia.

Here endeth the first lesson.

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[ParaHandy]

Re: Swiss big brother

would quite fancy being rescued by one of those st bernards with a cask of brandy ..

woof woof ...

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[AndrewB]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

<font size=1>My attitude is that at a pinch you can fit 6 people into a 4 man liferaft. It will have plenty of buoyancy and rescue times in the area in which I sail are going to be measured in hours, not days.

As we have 2 on board far more often than 5 or 6, I've gone for the 4 man. </font size=1>

<hr></blockquote>

We tried getting eight into a 6-man liferaft on a Sea-Survival course. It is a lot worse than a PINCH - it's that with just the designed number. What's more it is not possible for everyone to hold themselves firmly in position, and felt unstable even in a swimming-pool. I've gone for a 6-man raft: if for any reason we did have to spend a few days adrift, even a 4-man raft is too small for two.

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[pugwash]

Re: Serious big-brother rubbish

Of course you're right, Ken, just joking really. But you do need something to tipple on your desert island while the coconuts ferment and the blond with big boobs swims out of the surf.

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[Twister_Ken]

Liferaft RIF

Rupture Induction Factor.

Whatever you get, make sure you a) park it somewhere easy to launch or b) take up weightlifting.

And the bigger it is, the higher the RIF.

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[Cornishman]

From most of the replies so far I get the impression that nobody here has looked at a liferaft recently. For at least 20 years we have referred to them as ?PERSONS liferafts - that's what it says on the tin! And I don't even have a SWMBO.

More seriously - I have trained with the MN, the RNLI and the RYA and they all said use the smallest one possible for the best stability. I am not sure if it remains the same today, but when I taught sea survival to MN officers it was generally agreed that liferafts were quite capable of holding safely at least 50% more persons than it says on the canister/valise. These did have double skin bottoms, though, which a lot of the yotty ones don't.

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[ubuysa]

I had a similar experience on my sea survival course. We only had 4 people in a 4-man raft and I certainly wouldn't want any more! We simulated one of us being injured (broken leg) and unconscious and the other three of us were seriously restricted. I hate to think what it would have been like in a big sea!

My best advice before you chose a raft is do a sea survival course (if you haven't already). I feel much more able to choose a raft having done it, and I feel more able to cope if we actually have to use the thing.

Tony Cross

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[Cornishman]

Re: Swiss big brother

Blimey - how deep has the snow to be before you take to your liferaft?

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