Letter to the Editor of the RYA mag ref Orcas

[chrishscorp]

Could you post a link on the article about the 8 mtr boat please? This looks like an attempt to explain the behaviour and could be the basis for some more research 'I've never seen or heard of attacks': scientists baffled by orcas harassing boats

I will try and re find it, i did read it with interest as our boat is also 8 meters, really must get a bigger boat

 

[chrishscorp]

Here is a Youtube link, a Westerly Corsair being attacked, the poster of the video in the write up said '' 4 adult Orcas attack Westerly Corsair for 30 minutes, west of Gibraltar, south of Spain. We continued our passage to Gibraltar using the emergency tiller, after our rudder was severely damaged together with the steering mechanism and the autopilot mechanism. At least 2 other boats had incidents on that day (end of June) and one 8m boat ended up capsized. Luckily no victims. ''

just been reading through the comments on the video

As I have said in other comments: weather was good and calm (I don't think that anything could have capsized an 8m boat on that day). The radio announcement that you can hear in the video was in a 2 mile radius from our incident location, half an hour later. So we assumed that it was also an orca incident. Rumours in the port also stated so... but we never heard the final official information. Maybe you can ask for the official info at the Spanish Coast Guard/Cadiz port authorities

Do we have any forumites in the Cadiz area who can ask some questions ?

 

[Supertramp]

Sir
My boat is based in Faro, Portugal. There are lots of us there and thereabouts. Grave concerns are being aired about the increasing frequency of attacks on our boats by Orcas, ranging from Gibraltar to La Coruna.

Given the amount of support given to our successful racing team at the Olympics, could not some of that resource now be focussed on why these attacks are happening to us cruisers?

The advice by govts, which doesnt seem to be based on any scientific studies, to switch everything off and drop the sails doesnt appear to be working!

Anecdotal evidence emerging from some Portuguese skippers is that going astern as they approach the rudder deters them.

Could not the RYA commisssion a proper scientific study to find out a position and dateline timeline tied in to the tuna migration route so that we could make a data driven decision on when and where to make passage?

Also a scientific analysis of the attacks, given that myself and others have noticed in the Youtube videos the pack hunting behaviour of them blowing bubble curtains and tail slapping as they circle the stern area of boats, would be helpful?

The advice we are getting so far doesnt seem to be working, only a science driven analysis of this behaviour with science driven advice will perhaps help us cruisers to understand and mitigate the threat.

Rudders are still being munched!
How long before a person is munched?

Yours sincerely
Stuart A Davies

Before getting RYA, governments or any other remote organisations involved, I would want to understand the basis of the advice to stop and how effective following it or not following it in the event of an attack.

I understand the advice to boats near big whales (eg humpback) in other oceans to stop (and watch). In this specific situation does damage occur when sailing or motoring normally or when following the advice and stopping? Or does it make no difference? And what is happening to fishing boats? Orcas are a very different beast to the large baleen whales.

If I encountered this situation, my gut reaction would be to put the engine on (any intelligent animal should be scared of a propellor) and drop my anchors over the stern with 10ft of chain out to jangle around the rudder area.

These are beautiful creatures but imagine following this advice with a lion or polar bear. The lions when on land of course.

 

[nortada]

The ocar problem in Iberia has been developing for a number of years and I suspect it will be with us for the foreseeable future.

The ocars migrate around Iberia, following the tuna so logically at any time of the year it should be possible to know their location and avoid it; that or run the gauntlet. If attacked, running the engine astern seems to be the latest advice.

With this in mind, it would be useful to have as much detail of attacks as possible. Not only position but time of day, weather, sea state etc.

It will be interesting to see the insurance take on this. Will you only be insured to sail in ocar free areas?

Wonder how the day trip boats will fair? They can hardly take paying customers into areas of risk.

 

[Beneteau381]

The ocar problem in Iberia has been developing for a number of years and I suspect it will be with us for the foreseeable future.

The ocars migrate around Iberia, following the tuna so logically at any time of the year it should be possible to know their location and avoid it; that or run the gauntlet. If attacked, running the engine astern seems to be the latest advice.

With this in mind, it would be useful to have as much detail of attacks as possible. Not only position but time of day, weather, sea state etc.

It will be interesting to see the insurance take on this. Will you only be insured to sail in ocar free areas?

Wonder how the day trip boats will fair? They can hardly take paying customers into areas of risk.

The day trip boats are usually fast things, could easily out run an orca? Graham has pointed out that they told him, going astern gets their attention, but bear in mind, they usually have outbords?

 

[chrishscorp]

I was talking to a fish seller at the weekend on the IOW who sells locally his familys catch and he was saying they are finding all sorts out there including Tuna and I have heard of them being caught inside the Solent, cant be landed as there is no catch quota.
Plenty of Blue and Mako shark off the back of the Island you may even see Sea Turtles out there, lets hope Orcas dont reallise there is tuna and a huge selection of rudders to nibble in the Solent area

 

[nortada]

The day trip boats are usually fast things, could easily out run an orca? Graham has pointed out that they told him, going astern gets their attention, but bear in mind, they usually have outbords?

Orcas can reach 45kph.

 

[Beneteau381]

I was talking to a fish seller at the weekend on the IOW who sells locally his familys catch and he was saying they are finding all sorts out there including Tuna and I have heard of them being caught inside the Solent, cant be landed as there is no catch quota.
Plenty of Blue and Mako shark off the back of the Island you may even see Sea Turtles out there, lets hope Orcas dont reallise there is tuna and a huge selection of rudders to nibble in the Solent area

Just had a report in of a NZ boat going south, 27 miles off Sines being attacked, so they are heading North. One of my scientist friends say going N atthis time of the year is the norm.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Fantastic, lol, be it Brexit, VAT , sea grass or Orcas same oh same oh story ,
The once that are effected want some action and the once it don't just shrug their shoulders .
When will we all learn any problem for one sailor is a problem for everyone at some point .
It be interesting to see people reaction if the Orcas turn I in the Solent or on the east coast , I lay a pound to a penny , some here will soon change their attitude.

As for any chance of escaping an attack is seen so far going in astern is the only thing that's been report to work ,
I'm suprise the expert haven't mentioned this as a way forward , are they worried an Orcas may try and come in from the other side and have contact with the propeller and hurt it self .
Every thing else the expert have suggested including keeping in shallow water out side the buoys boats have still in counter with them.

As someone posted I too believe when and if the time come when fisherman are up in arms some thing will get done , in the mean time tow boats are earning money from yachts and so are the repair yards so not really and rush to sort the problem Out as far as official are concern.
After all it's only rich yachtie.

Edit
Who ever suggested hanging an anchor behind the rudder personally I think that's not a bad idea and maybe several loops of chain , it will course drag but it may also get in the way of a straight attack strike and coming in from a angle and having chain banging up against the might just be enough add going astern .
Unless it's tryed one won't know .

 

[Rappey]

) and drop my anchors over the stern

And then get dragged backwards and under ? Who knows ?

I wouldnt be surprised if some fishermen have already used various methods to make an orca go away.
An orca is good for 30knts. Be hard to outrun that in a sea.
Next follows a quite amazing clip.
The big question is did the orca collide the boats on purpose ?

 

[SaltIre]

Here's a clip taken from the other boat:

 

[Rappey]

Such a shame that clip was cut short.

 

[Supertramp]

And then get dragged backwards and under ? Who knows ?

I wouldnt be surprised if some fishermen have already used various methods to make an orca go away.
An orca is good for 30knts. Be hard to outrun that in a sea.
Next follows a quite amazing clip.
The big question is did the orca collide the boats on purpose ?

Good point, my kedges have chain then rope. But the serious question is whether doing nothing or doing something is the best strategy. If that's what happens at anchor then I'm still in the do something camp!

I was in Loch Boisdale once in the 70s and a pod of orcas came up the Loch past the ferry terminal and then back out, chasing seals. Enchanting at the time to a 10 Yr old. We were at anchor in a 26 ft boat....... now I would be scared.

 

[SaltIre]

Before getting RYA, governments or any other remote organisations involved, I would want to understand the basis of the advice to stop and how effective following it or not following it in the event of an attack.

I understand the advice to boats near big whales (eg humpback) in other oceans to stop (and watch). In this specific situation does damage occur when sailing or motoring normally or when following the advice and stopping? Or does it make no difference? And what is happening to fishing boats? Orcas are a very different beast to the large baleen whales.

If I encountered this situation, my gut reaction would be to put the engine on (any intelligent animal should be scared of a propellor) and drop my anchors over the stern with 10ft of chain out to jangle around the rudder area.

These are beautiful creatures but imagine following this advice with a lion or polar bear. The lions when on land of course.

Is any anchor in particular better than others as a whale deterrant?

 

[Supertramp]

Is any anchor in particular better than others as a whale deterrant?

Surely a question for the RYA.? While you're waiting for the reply I shall sharpen my flukes and track down a depth charge.

Interactions between orcas and boats go on all the time - Antarctic trips revel in encounters from Zodiacs (ulp) . But something is triggering a new behaviour in this group. Trying something new may be more effective than pretending to be dead.

 

[25931]

Today's CM reports that a German singlehander was towed into Cascais yesterday pm after being disabled by orcas 8 miles from Cabo da Roca. They also reported that the chap was disturbed.

 

[nortada]

Today's CM reports that a German singlehander was towed into Cascais yesterday pm after being disabled by orcas 8 miles from Cabo da Roca. They also reported that the chap was disturbed.

Disturbed, I would be terrified. Just hope the Iberian Orcas do not change their diet from blue fin tuna.

Looks as if the main focus is now on the Silver Coast, rather than the Bay of Cadiz.

 

[25931]

Disturbed, I would be terrified. Just hope the Iberian Orcas do not change their diet from blue fin tuna.

Looks as if the main focus is now on the Silver Coast, rather than the Bay of Cadiz.

Why terrified ? There has not been a single case of anyone being touched, let alone injured. The so called attacks have all been against awbs and have been no more than rudder nibbling when every day large numbers of tourists go close to orcas in more vulnerable open boats without being "attacked". It would appear that orcas have invented a new passtime game the rules of which we are ignorant but don't involve harming people. Perhaps the winner is the one who causes a panic radio call with only three bites ?

 

[25931]

Why terrified ? There has not been a single case of anyone being touched, let alone injured. The so called attacks have all been against awbs and have been no more than rudder nibbling when every day large numbers of tourists go close to orcas in more vulnerable open boats without being "attacked". It would appear that orcas have invented a new passtime game the rules of which we are ignorant but don't involve harming people. Perhaps the winner is the one who causes a panic radio call with only three bites ?

 

[nortada]

If you don’t mind me remarking, rather flippant response.

If a boat is disabled and a crew member falls overboard, that crew member is in great risk of drowning. If the vessel sinks or is capsized, the whole crew could drown.

In my book, cause for concern and a Mayday for assistance